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Crusader

Epic Council.

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I think everyone can agree on one common thing: No one is ever going to agree on one thing. Anytime anyone makes a suggestion it usually favors one side, and hurts another. It can be anything related to guards, kingdoms, spells, artifacts, pets, etc., but regardless there is always a fence and you pick a side if you're for it or against it. That's simply every suggestion thread, and rarely will you get a united agreement of voting one way. The truth I think when Rolf or other developers see a suggestion thread that is 5+ pages long of arguing and disagreeing they won't bother to look through it, they already see it has created far too much conflict on the forums that it would be more trouble to add it in game.

I think the second thing everyone can agree on is that Epic wasn't really all that amazing, it's continually dropped in player count with a few spikes here and there. The game would always be more fun with more players, for Home servers and PvPers alike. I think it's hard for Rolf to find what would work for Epic because suggestion threads get bombarded and often are posted in by players who:

a) Aren't on Epic.

B) Aren't PvPing yet will make suggestions to nerf PvP.

c) Are trying to get game changes to benefit themselves or their kingdom only.

Yes, I agree to the point if you're on a Home server that your opinion still matters, but I think also in a lot of ways it's invasive and ruining other's funs to try to change the game for others with game changes that do not apply to you. The easiest way anything would ever get done is if you had some form of an Epic Council, a player group of selected players from all four servers, who play differently. Meaning that you would have someone who is more passive and a crafter, and someone who is very into PvP to create a balance.

2 Players from MRH.

2 Players from JKH.

2 Players from BLH.

2 Players per kingdom from Elevation.

I know someone is thinking, "That's way too elitist that only 10 or so people get to decide our fate." First bare in mind right now it's only up to 1 person - Rolf, and no offense to Rolf... but his history of game changes haven't always been amazing. Secondly, it would take suggestions that were proposed in Suggestion & ideas and bring them to a more controlled area to be discussed by Council Members.

The hard truth is that Epic hasn't gotten a good look at it in awhile. The missions are terrible, the PvP is stagnant, there's little room for underdogs to rise up, the Home servers and Elevation are barely connected, and there has been several suggestion threads that have gone by unlooked and passed by. The system of having Rolf do everything is stupid, he can't possibly manage Freedom + Epic + Chaos on his own and know what is good. Developers rarely have time to play the game and understand what is a good update and what isn't. I think until Rolf starts appointing more people in charge of servers/clusters the updates aren't going to happen, and nothing will ever get fixed truly.

If Rolf were to give players more control over how to help shape and control the server I am sure things would improve faster than the speed its at now, which is basically molasses. I honestly also think people are putting too much into visible armor + animations, yes those will look good, but they won't fix all the problems with the game. Those are enjoyable cosmetic treats, but there is still a lot of unbalanced mechanics and good suggestions that have just gone by undiscussed.

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The last time this was tried, Rolf picked a few people that weren't even a majority vote. That "Chaos Council" went down the drain rather quick because of it. I'll always be a fan of Councils such as this to help Rolf improve the game, but he needs to listen to the community and let them decide who to put forward. With that being said, Epic shouldn't be the only Cluster with a "Council". He should draw up a separate Council for those who are apart of the Freedom Cluster, with maybe 4 representatives from each of those servers.

Admittedly, the last time this was tried, as said earlier, wasn't all that great. I believe that if done correctly, it could be much better this time.

+1

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I think it is a solid idea. The issue will be working out the details to get the council to work at all.

There are really tricky details to what you have already said about homeserver vs. Elevation representation.

Should someone like me that played homeserver for majority of their time here be a homeserver rep? Or will I be considered Elevation since I am living there with 3 alts now and one still on home?

Details are always the pain on stuff like this.

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I'd say you should be active with your main on the server you are representing just to keep funny business to a minimum

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I agree with getting a counsil, should touch base with people that have played on Epic and since left to get an understanding of what if keeping them from playing there or what turned them off.

I wouldnt expect everything talked about to be available but status updates such as ... 8/12/12 : We all came to the conclusion Protunia knows nothing about Epic, would be nice.

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I think it is a solid idea. The issue will be working out the details to get the council to work at all.

There are really tricky details to what you have already said about homeserver vs. Elevation representation.

Should someone like me that played homeserver for majority of their time here be a homeserver rep? Or will I be considered Elevation since I am living there with 3 alts now and one still on home?

Details are always the pain on stuff like this.

I think you should decide where you yourself called home over, and pick one. I agree to the point if you're JK you're JK, regardless of Home or Elevation, but you need to have someone with a perspective and understanding how Elevation and a perspective from someone of Home.

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No, no, and absolutely not. At the utmost a council could be arranged much like CSM in eve to provide a place for the team to touch base with the community, but the design, final say, and overall direction on project, (specially one with a small entrenched community,) must come from the devs themselves. I don't want to play some "community project" mmo. Besides wurm has a massive list of technical problems to deal with as is, and I'm certain most of us can agree they are pretty obvious already.

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First off the Home servers are supporting Epic just as much as Elevation if not more and should have equal share in any voting.

Second NO MORE COUNCILS they do not work and cause just more in fighting.

And Third the attitude of some pvpers about having to have PvP my way or the highway is what has wrecked Wurms PvP. If anything it has created more confusion, stagnant positions, and unbalance than anything else or anyone else who has anything to say.

And last PvP in Wurm is dying if you don't Evolve into just alittle more mainstram or balanced approach in the way of thinking and implementation it will stay dying and/or eventually be DEAD period.

Edited by Protunia

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First off the Home servers are supporting Epic just as much as Elevation if not more and should have equal share in any voting.

Second NO MORE COUNCILS they do not work and cause just more in fighting.

Home servers would have their say as much as anyone else would? I clearly put there'd be 6 total Home server people.

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Home servers would have their say as much as anyone else would? I clearly put there'd be 6 total Home server people.

But you also had to add this statement which is bunk and its easy to stack any kind of council with people who are not Home server people and say they are Home server people, because players do goto both Elevation and the Home servers and use both of them.

Yes, I agree to the point if you're on a Home server that your opinion still matters, but I think also in a lot of ways it's invasive and ruining other's funs to try to change the game for others with game changes that do not apply to you.

It could be said the exact opposite of your point of view that Elevation Hardcore players are wrecking the chance of a good PvP game and causing stagnation and most of the problems that have happened as well as being invasive and ruining others types of PvP players fun.

The problem is there is no one way todo PvP ever and there are many different types of PvP players.

Edited by Protunia

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Agree with Protunia. And I also think that's enough spiteful Epic suggestions for one day, thank you.

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I also agree with Protunia. Especially after your elitist statements about who currently posts in Epic related suggestion threads let alone your arrogant comments about the development of the game. Rarely is there a change to Epic that does not impact Freedom in some way, and vice versa. Secondly, the views of those who don't play there or PvP there are equally, if not more, important than those already there. Perhaps if their voices were better heard, more people might populate your dwindling domain.

@Kraljatov: Actually topics like this almost make me change my mind about your 'dislike' suggestion! ;)

Edited by Tinkerer

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I also agree with Protunia. Especially after your elitist statements about who currently posts in Epic related suggestion threads let alone your arrogant comments about the development of the game. Rarely is there a change to Epic that does not impact Freedom in some way, and vice versa. Secondly, the views of those who don't play there or PvP there are equally, if not more, important than those already there. Perhaps if their voices were better heard, more people might populate your dwindling domain.

@Kraljatov: Actually topics like this almost make me change my mind about your 'dislike' suggestion! ;)

I don't think there's anything elitist about having a group bringing more "better" agreed upon suggestions to the attention of Rolf rather than Rolf having to look through the garbage-bin that is the Suggestion & Ideas thread. The Council was already an idea and passed, there was a Chaos Council but Rolf himself said it didn't work because he didn't pay attention to it (or something), and Chaos flopped again. You seem to have issues reading Tinkerer, or you just skimmed, I never said this group would decide the fate of all the code everywhere. I clearly put in the original post it would merely take proposed suggestions already posted and bring them forward to Rolf.

I'm not saying this group would just make everything and no one else would be heard, I clearly put it's merely a way to bring more agreed upon suggestions up to Rolf to help fix the game. I would guess you aren't a developer, Tinkerer, but imagine being a developer and having to manage Freedom, Epic, and rework Chaos, and having to go through ALL these suggestion threads. Currently only ONE guy does it, Rolf, and it's overwhelming if you think about it from his perspective. If the community could help more shape the game on agreed upon suggestions, I see no issues with it.

You do help prove my original point that it's hilarious that someone not on Epic is -1 an Epic Council thread, ironyyyyyy, tastes sweeetttt.

Edited by Crusader

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Proposed by whom?

And if there are many who don't agree with certain suggestions a council won't make a spec of difference.

Edited by Kraljtatov

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Secondly, it would take suggestions that were proposed in Suggestion & ideas and bring them to a more controlled area to be discussed by Council Members.

Anyone, everyone? Do you really think Rolf has the time to look through every suggestion thread and all the pages for 3 different servers? Honestly I doubt it, I mean now and then I am sure he sees one and clicks it and reads it, but more often than not I would bet you a lot get overlooked and archived.

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I'd rather have the Devs (not just Rolf) look at suggestions rather than have them be manhandled and filtered by a handful of players.

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I'd rather have the Devs (not just Rolf) look at suggestions rather than have them be manhandled and filtered by a handful of players.

If you have a council of multiple people of the kingdoms and servers it'd least be more civil and a chance to find reason and balance with suggestions rather than just spamming forums with giant red -1s.

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Love the topic tag on this thread, automatic +1 from me, and I love the idea of Freedom Councils or even individual server councils :D

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Well, all I see so far is that Rolf should NOT try the council again. The very arguements you mention are already going on, and your attitude does not help your cause. Let Rolf decide how he wants PVP to work, it is to him the most important part of Wurm. And anyone's suggestions will have some advantage for themselves, even if they don't see it. It's human nature to try to get yourself an advantage. That's why Rolf can't listen to any of you for PVP.

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First bare in mind right now it's only up to 1 person - Rolf, and no offense to Rolf... but his history of game changes haven't always been amazing. Secondly, it would take suggestions that were proposed in Suggestion & ideas and bring them to a more controlled area to be discussed by Council Members.

So you'ld take an idea and knock it around amongst a small group in private to your own liking... (Even this which you requoted does not mention taking them to Rolf)

The system of having Rolf do everything is stupid, he can't possibly manage Freedom + Epic + Chaos on his own and know what is good. Developers rarely have time to play the game and understand what is a good update and what isn't. I think until Rolf starts appointing more people in charge of servers/clusters the updates aren't going to happen, and nothing will ever get fixed truly.

Now you're saying Rolf can't do it on his own and needs to delegate control - i.e. to a council like yours

If Rolf were to give players more control over how to help shape and control the server I am sure things would improve faster than the speed its at now, which is basically molasses.

And again.. asking for more power to control the server...

I didn't see anything claiming to acta as a 'voice of the forums' or simply bringing suggestions forward to Rolf. Though perhaps cutting odd words here and there I could make a sentence from your post that does twist your context to say something similar. The closest you came was suggesting that Rolf couldn't read or wouldn't want to read 5+ pages of a thread.

Why should 8 people (or less) choose which are 'better' suggestions? (but of course as you already said people the opinions of those on home-servers are only important on suggestions that are not invasive to your play style)

Edited by Tinkerer

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