Lamps - A Meet In The Middle Suggestion For Borth Wurm And Players!

[Maximusi 141]

Hello Everyone,

I have started this post to suggest a new idea which will meet in the middle between Wurm and The Players since it seems the new deed lighting system has been met with great outcry. This is just an idea that has been discussed feel like it is a great ideal to suit both parties, This does not mean it is a confirmed or even considered change hence the reason for this post to see feedback to the idea. We would like to know what Players and Staff alike think of this change and please use the poll provided to mark whether you are For / Against this idea. Also feel free to leave comments (no flaming please on or off subject)

The idea comes in multiple parts so please read the whole blurb:

Allow Guard Towers Guards to be able to fill lamps within their normal range. This would be met with a requirement of: Oil Barrel containing Oil within their range. Maybe also add it to 60ql+ (maybe higher to 80 based on comments from this thread) Guard Towers only, That way the use of a guard tower does not only stop at 50ql. This would also allow for off deed lighting to be maintained such as community areas and public roads, Would require someone building a 60ql+ Guard tower and keep an oil barrel stocks in those areas.

This would achieve:

• Maintaining the new value of Olive Oil
  
• Increasing the value of the Masonry Skill
  
• Providing more benefits for high ql Towers
  
• Allowing Public areas to remain lit
  
• Also suggested it also gives a possible early indication of an abandonded area if the tower decays resulting in all the lights going out
  

So please cast your vote now.

Regards,

Maximusi

Edited August 5, 2012 by maximusi

[Atticas14 2]

Easy to implement. I like it.

[Becket 843]

Works for me. Will it cover lamps in mines with in range aswell?

[kajmir 80]

I am out of sympthy for this topic. I never found the change that big of a deal to begin with.

However, I can understand not everyone can afford a deed and I think this would be reasonable solution, although I would suggest the tower be 20ql not 60ql. the players this is aimed at, a good portion will be lower skilled, prolly unprem'ed as well.

[Maximusi 141]

Works for me. Will it cover lamps in mines with in range aswell?

One would hope if this was to get implemented that it would.

[Tinkerer 107]

While if might provide a partial result for the current state of the map, I can't help but worry that this solution would just encourage all new non-deeders to build all their starter shacks around guard towers.

I do however like the idea that they could be used to protect (and keep lit) various key portions of highway as that very much fits the role of a guard tower. But its what this would no doubt lead to that worries me a little. Would we end up with towers surrounded by newby shacks? Or towers placed on mountainsides just to light the mines below? (thus then blocking what would have been a more useful place to put one from a protection point of view)

+/- but veering on the -1

[Kadore 926]

-1, Guard Towers were made to protect those with low fight skill, better off just allowing the oil tub to work anywhere without guard interaction.

[Guest Docterchese]

While if might provide a partial result for the current state of the map, I can't help but worry that this solution would just encourage all new non-deeders to build all their starter shacks around guard towers.

I do however like the idea that they could be used to protect (and keep lit) various key portions of highway as that very much fits the role of a guard tower. But its what this would no doubt lead to that worries me a little. Would we end up with towers surrounded by newby shacks? Or towers placed on mountainsides just to light the mines below? (thus then blocking what would have been a more useful place to put one from a protection point of view)

+/- but veering on the -1

What about the people with deeds and a tower? We have a tower there as backup and don't have templars because they kill everything in sight... would rather have the FS gain. However, we're penalised for that choice and all of a sudden have to pay another 1s just to have light at night... :-/

This isn't by any means about newbies or people without deeds, it's about everyone who uses a tower as a guard source yet loses out.

[Maximusi 141]

-1, Guard Towers were made to protect those with low fight skill, better off just allowing the oil tub to work anywhere without guard interaction.

I can see how using the Oil Tub anywhere including of deed would help but its not realistic in the fact oil doesnt jump from barrel to lights.

[Maximusi 141]

While if might provide a partial result for the current state of the map, I can't help but worry that this solution would just encourage all new non-deeders to build all their starter shacks around guard towers.

I do however like the idea that they could be used to protect (and keep lit) various key portions of highway as that very much fits the role of a guard tower. But its what this would no doubt lead to that worries me a little. Would we end up with towers surrounded by newby shacks? Or towers placed on mountainsides just to light the mines below? (thus then blocking what would have been a more useful place to put one from a protection point of view)

+/- but veering on the -1

I see your worry but that one way to help that is the suggestion of 60+ql Guard Towers or maybe even high so they cant go popping up everywhere only skilled players who know what they are doing and what is best for wurm could do them.

[Cerber 103]

i think we need a way to auto light off deed lamps, but i thought of 2 problems with that solution:

- if a player settle within range of a tower guard, but there is an abandonned place also in range... he will have to fuel all lamps on that abandonned spot too (don't know what's the range of the tower guards so that might not be a big issue if it's small enough)

- afaik, guard towers need to be at least 50t apart so you can't place them anywhere you want

so if 2 towers are 90t apart and someone wants to settle between, he can't build a new tower to light his place

i had another idea about it, but it only concerns deed owners:

the possibility to "link" off deed lamps to your on deed oil tub (basically you tell your lazy templar to go light that off deed lamp)

it would allow mayors to take care of areas they want to keep lit, and there could be a line on the lamp description saying which deed is fueling it

[Kraljtatov 34]

Every deed owner would then just use guard towers rather than spirit guards. -1

[Kadore 926]

I can see how using the Oil Tub anywhere including of deed would help but its not realistic in the fact oil doesnt jump from barrel to lights.

Realism kills about 90% of the suggestions this game gets, or starts them ... someday I hope to play a fantasy game, you know where I can play without the limits of things that effect me on earth.

[Maximusi 141]

Every deed owner would then just use guard towers rather than spirit guards. -1

I disagree because still letting Spirit Templars also doing lighting and a lot of people will want them to fend of critters which is what they were originally there fore.

[Maximusi 141]

i think we need a way to auto light off deed lamps, but i thought of 2 problems with that solution:

- if a player settle within range of a tower guard, but there is an abandonned place also in range... he will have to fuel all lamps on that abandonned spot too (don't know what's the range of the tower guards so that might not be a big issue if it's small enough)

- afaik, guard towers need to be at least 50t apart so you can't place them anywhere you want

so if 2 towers are 90t apart and someone wants to settle between, he can't build a new tower to light his place

i had another idea about it, but it only concerns deed owners:

the possibility to "link" off deed lamps to your on deed oil tub (basically you tell your lazy templar to go light that off deed lamp)

it would allow mayors to take care of areas they want to keep lit, and there could be a line on the lamp description saying which deed is fueling it

As me and Cerber discussed Guard towers dont have a large range I cannot call guards just outside of my deed with a guard tower in the middle so I doubt the first one will be a problem.

As for the second one there is that but they will also have the option to hire a spirit templar or locate their deed elsewhere (or fill the lamps themselves). It would be their choice

[Kraljtatov 34]

Realism kills about 90% of the suggestions this game gets, or starts them ... someday I hope to play a fantasy game, you know where I can play without the limits of things that effect me on earth.

I, however, do not want to play a game that is so fantastical to the point where it's practically god-mode and thus becomes boring after a week.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Kraljtatov

[Tinkerer 107]

Even having them imped to 60ql wouldn't stop the effects I posed as possible outcomes. You'ld still get the established players building a high ql guard tower half way up a mountainside for the carefree lighting in their mines below, and you'ld get lots of starter shacks packed around the ones that were accessible.

I'd rather see guard towers as part of a definition of a highway - a protected and maintained road (not necessary for the whole length, but at least for a part of it)

[Becket 843]

Even having them imped to 60ql wouldn't stop the effects I posed as possible outcomes. You'ld still get the established players building a high ql guard tower half way up a mountainside for the carefree lighting in their mines below, and you'ld get lots of starter shacks packed around the ones that were accessible.

I'd rather see guard towers as part of a definition of a highway - a protected and maintained road (not necessary for the whole length, but at least for a part of it)

A guard tower takes up 1 tile who cares if there is one half way up a mountian not like there is anything there or your going to see it anyway.

Asfar as the fear of noobs clustering around a guard tower hell if they are going to do it they will regardless.

[Perryn 79]

The lamp thing has been something I avoided to comment on for the simple reason... there is too much unknown at this point for me to make a proper judgement on it.

One thing I can see being a hurdle with your idea is deeds act differently than undeeded areas. To place a tub of oil in an undeed area so the tower guards can use it will only result in the oil tubs being drained constantl well... i suppose you could fence in and lock the oil tub down.

Secondly... you dont like your neighbor? make 100 low QL lamps and plant them all around the guard tower that is being used.

The problem doing something like this on undeeded territory is the hinge to a lot of squabbles and disputes among players I would foresee.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Perryn

[Tinkerer 107]

A guard tower takes up 1 tile who cares if there is one half way up a mountian not like there is anything there or your going to see it anyway.

Except that it then means another one cannot be built at what might be a much more useful and beneficial location within a 50 tile radius.

Asfar as the fear of noobs clustering around a guard tower hell if they are going to do it they will regardless.

Yes, but this would just give them added reason to.

[Wulfgar 1,127]

I am against it for the following reasons:

• It still doesn't give a possibility for tar to be used in auto-filling of lamps.
  
• Only deeds should allow auto-filling and auto-lighting of lamps.
  
• It is too easy to build a guard tower that lasts for eternities and keeps all lamps lit in a 50x50 area.
  
• Bring back what we had before, and find a good way to increase the usefulness of olive oils without nerfing tar and deeds.
  

[Maximusi 141]

• It is too easy to build a guard tower that lasts for eternities and keeps all lamps lit in a 50x50 area.
  
• Bring back what we had before, and find a good way to increase the usefulness of olive oils without nerfing tar and deeds.
  

Do it soed keep all lamps going in a 50x50 area because while another Guard tower cant be built for 50 tiles that isnt actually the guards range. Guards have alot less than that for their calling distance. Also with the worry of noobs 'clustering' around a guard tower I dont think this will be a problem, You wont be able to fi tmuch around a guard tower, They are not littered everywhere and I highly doubt they would be even after this addition.

However what you could change is have them at 80 or 90ql that would really only let the veterans build them!

Also I don't think you can count as being against this idea but it doesn't include tar.....Ask your self would you vote for the idea if tar WAS included..

[Becket 843]

Secondly... you dont like your neighbor? make 100 low QL lamps and plant them all around the guard tower that is being used.

The problem doing something like this on undeeded territory is the hinge to a lot of squabbles and disputes among players I would foresee.

Spaming lamps around a GT would fall under the griefing rule imo there is no valid reason to do it. Oracle and the GM's could kick it around but it seems that would cover it.

Tinkerer we have had GT's in my area snice Indy open and not one cluster of noob shacks, I'm not buying your argument.

[Maximusi 141]

I agree. Being covered under griefing it will almost never happen because its not worth it, plus thats alot of work to grief someone when your name is going to plastered all over the place on the lamps and planting them your going to be in trouble.

As for the pvp servers then it doesnt matter its part of a players job to secure their stuff and fight off annoying people :-)

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Another thread to change the lamps back to forever lit. Rolf needs to just revert code, much simpler than all these new ideas to make them light forever. It may have been a bug, but it was never a problem for anyone.