Cant Sleep In A House With Arched Inner Walls.

[Julepalme 39]

So yesterday after the patch that released arch walls i was super excited, because they are really pretty and make for a great atmosphere i my house

But around the time i had to logout to go to bed i found a bug that made me unable to sleep in the 2 beds i have in my house causing me to loose a far bit of sleepbonus last night.

Before yesterday the house was a simple 4x2 stonehouse with a few windows and a doubledoor. and the beds had worked just fine.

Then after the patch i added 4 internal walls.. to split the house into a 2x1 bedroom with a door and a window and just walls. and 2x2 workshop with a window and an arched doorway that leads into the hallway thats also 2x1.

There was no change to any of the outer walls in the house to let in a draft.

Which leads me to believe this bug occured because i setup an internal arch wall. (all stone btw. not that i think it matters).

So this to me obviously means the code surrounding arch walls is bugged. sure if it had been an outer wall yes.. open house.. but it the code needs to learn to differentiate.

So please either teach the code to differentiate between inner/outerwalls or atleast check on a room basis to allow beds inside closed off rooms to be used even if you decide to make a frontporch with arches. or even a decorative arch innerwall like i did.

Or if this takes too long to code.. please allow temporary sleeping in houses with arch walls so we dont have to bash them down to avoid loosing sleepbonus untill this issue can be fixed.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

You were warned

[MrGARY 12,421]

You were warned

Was this some public warning? Where is this for all of us to see that inner arches will break beds?

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/64501-arched-walls/#entry635913

[JTShadow 4]

Aetherwalker, your link proving we have been warned is to a post by Zcul talking about how you can't sleep with "outer arched walls", nowhere was it specified "inner arched walls" wouldn't work, furthermore the post says he would look into making it so enclosed rooms inside a house that has outer arched walls would allow sleeping, so not only does Julepalme not have outer arched walls, they also have a closed off inner bedroom, and having an inner arched wall was never warned that it would ruin your opportunity to acquire sleep bonus.

I'm personally glad I stumbled upon this, I knew better than to have any arched walls on the outside of my house, but I did want to use some inner ones to divide my house just as Julepalme did, and NOW I know better.

[MrGARY 12,421]

Doesn't say inner wall arches. Believe that discussion was for outer wall arches.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

To those of you crying about how this is bugged: Get over yourselves. There were bound to be bugs with a new feature like this and just because they did not specifically warn you of this particular bug does NOT mean you were not warned of possible bugs.

[JTShadow 4]

To those of you crying about how this is bugged: Get over yourselves. There were bound to be bugs with a new feature like this and just because they did not specifically warn you of this particular bug does NOT mean you were not warned of possible bugs.

I don't think anyone is crying over it, merely pointing it out, the only reason there is any argument here is because of people like you coming in saying giving grief or saying we should have known better, so maybe you should get over yourself. Since when is it not ok to post a thread about a bug in the bugs forum?

[Klaa 4,872]

The manner in which Zcul discussed arched walls and beds leads one to assume it means outer walls. Naturally outer arched walls would let in too much of a "draft", and inner arched walls shouldnt be any more drafty than the lack of interior walls to begin with.

Offhand one can assume unintended behavior.

[tealc 149]

The issue is known about and will be fixed soon

[Julepalme 39]

great to hear.. in the mean time i hope i can get a hold of the writ holder and get the damn wall bashed cant do without another night of sleepbonus.

[Keldun 335]

I'm not sure if Aether meant it like that, but:

This is Wurm, you should have seen the bug coming miles away.

So in that regard, yes you were warned. (;

Edited July 30, 2012 by Keldun

[JTShadow 4]

For one Keldun, your the second person to contribute to the conversation without actually "contributing" to it, the first, along with my response has already been removed. Yes, its a game, yes it has bugs, I don't think anyone is quite complaining about the fact a new feature was released and theres a bug with it. This just happens to be the part of the forum where you can post and let them know you found a bug, and someone just happened to post about a bug they found. Quite a concept for the appropriate post to be in the appropriate place eh? I ended up posting here because I don't like people giving others trouble for doing something that is perfectly normal, such as posting bugs in the bug forum. Realistically since Tealc already responded saying it was a known issue and will be fixed soon the thread should have been closed after that, since all required information about the bug has been collected and no more arguments like these need to occur.

[Aldur 651]

Do anything in this game get tested before going live?

[bdew 2,462]

Do anything in this game get tested before going live?

Is that a rhetoric question?

[Keldun 335]

JT that wasn't a response to the actual bug report, that one was obvious and didn't require any response except Tealc's.

It was a response to the complaint about loss.

When you try out a new feature in Wurm you have to expect that it doesn't work right.

In that regard it was more a side blow at the devs than the op. (that's how I took Aethers post as well)

Some people need to get a tougher sense of humour, keeps your blood pressure down.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Keldun

[Aldur 651]

Fine, I shall restate my question in a contributing fashion.

Did arched wall go through any closed testing before it went live?

Also, maybe it should be disabled until it gets fixed? Maybe next feature should get proper testing?

Just my contributing thoughts...

When you try out a new feature in Wurm you have to expect that it doesn't work right.

Yes I understand this is a bit of a joke, but it touches a serious issue I have with development process in here. Yes bugs happen in soft, but they are happening usually in certain rare conditions or applications, situations that simply were not conceived at the time of testing. They shouldn't happen within obvious context, that indicates that testing was done in a sloppy way or wasn't done at all.

PS. I find it strange that Team here has time to go through and delete posts, but not to properly test things. That makes be even more angry.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Aldur

[Keldun 335]

Yes I understand this is a bit of a joke, ...

That is not the joke, it is the sad fact (as you explained) that I was joking about.

PS. I find it strange that Team here has time to go through and delete posts, but not to properly test things. That makes be even more angry.

Completely different people responsible for this.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Keldun

[Aldur 651]

I think that any person is qualified for testing, all you need to do is play the test build after all.

[chefpeewe 47]

Testing takes a lot of time and discipline. If a developper needs to test his code thoroughly, he needs as much time to test than he needs to write the code. So that halves the amount of new code he can deliver in the same amount of time given. Or you need a second person to test.

When things go into testclient, it's the users responsibility to actually test and report things. This usually doesn't happen. So when things go live and actually a large number of people start using the new code, bugs come up and people are pissed.

[ago 470]

I'm sure Zcul tested arched wall before he added them to the server. But he probably did not forsee arched inner walls as a problem with beds. From the blog and other comments I assume he tested building inner walls, he tested sleeping with arched outer walls. But not the combination of those two.

The Wurm sandbox allows millions of combinations of different features. There is no way each and every possible combination can be thoroughly tested.

Usually a new feature should be on the test server for a few days so players can test that feature and whatever combinations they want to use. But ask yourself, would you have tested building a house, inner walls and a bed just to test if sleeping with inner arched walls becomes a problem?

Most of the bugs only surface when players use them in their regular play. Hardly ever are they recreated by a synthetic test play.

[Aldur 651]

But ask yourself, would you have tested building a house, inner walls and a bed just to test if sleeping with inner arched walls becomes a problem?

I would do that if I was the dev himself! I'd never pass my own code further without checking all my concerns first and making sure my code is as robust as I can make it. Testing is programming, it's part of the process, it allows you to fix bugs before they annoy someone, before they corrupt something or cause loss of work, before you forget details on what you modified, before someone further modifies the bugged code and more bugs happen because of it.

And yes there are many bugs that are obscure and happen in specific conditions that are hard or even impossible to conceive at the time of development. Arched wall affecting beds is not one of those, this is obvious one, it really should have been found and fixed before seeing livelight.

[ago 470]

I'd never pass my own code further without checking all my concerns first and making sure my code is as robust as I can make it.

Can't sleep in houses with arched walls -> Check

Arched walls do not crash the server -> Check

Zcul had thought about arched walls and beds and figured that arched walls should prevent people from sleeping in the house because it's too windy. When he wrote that in the forums or blog or twitter (can't remember which one) nobody came forward with the warning that inner arched walls should be different. Nobody thought about it as a problem. Nobody would have tested it even if it was on test and only a real play test revealed that it's an issue.

[Aldur 651]

If arched wall was explicitly programmed to disallow sleeping, then why didn't Zcul see this bug a mile away? Now it seems not only easy to spot, but outright obvious!

[Bachus 462]

What about outer arched walls as a decoration, a front porch effect?

I built a house with a front porch and enclosed inner walls, it should have no effect on sleep either.

Even better idea = Not have arched walls effect sleep at all !

If pepole want to take a nap in thier gazebo; let them nap in their gazebo.