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Jerrywalker

Highway Rule

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Sure the deed owner should have rerouted the highway before taking up the old one. But he didn't and now that's done, I'm sure he has learn from this and wouldn't do it again.

Mistake made and lesson learned sounds good. In this particular case though, there always was another way through. I used to live right by there and went through Jerry's deed just about every day. The way around which remains, and was always there, is admittedly not as large as a highway and I can see how getting around wall corners is an inconvenience. I think part of the uproar from this thread is that the inconvenience is considered to be the deed owner's problem, and not the transient traveler's problem (so long as they still have free passage).

My question with this particular case is how the OP could have rerouted the highway without tearing up his deed, buildings, etc. I think the two options were to either reroute with an early left coming from Kingsport and hugging the coast (less protection for travelers from the tower he built himself that way though), or expand the current way around which would have meant destroying walls/houses (if I remember correctly). That may very well be what's expected, I would just consider that kind of harsh and might grow to resent the travelers a bit for putting me through it.

If there was a system where I could post the upcoming change and give the travelers who depend on the road a chance to come and take an active role in helping the reroute, that would make it easier for me to swallow. If nobody responds to the call for help rerouting, well... then they pretty much didn't want any responsibility for the highway and can't complain later when it's not up to their expectation. It still requires the deed owner to be considerate of his neighbors, but it also means the neighbors have to be willing to put up or uhm, shut up.

Anyway, seems to me like both sides of the issue have had a chance to present their concerns and that's always appreciated. It does concern me a little bit when those who make the rules refer to themselves as "us roadbuilders," as that would really denote a conflict of interest... but all I can really do is trust that they leave any personal preferences at the door when weighing two sides of an issue.

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Actually JudusX I don't think I said it wasn't an issue, I said it has blown up a bit from the original post and that maybe helping fix it or giving advice rather than jumping down the OP's throat might be a better way to solve it. That is in relation to the point of the original post rather than the wider issue.

Sure it's an issue and I appreciate that. Myself and friends were shouted at by Daash when we first started Wurm, like most we hadn't read every rule and without realising it was wrong we removed some gravel next to a 1 tile road Daash had setup. After speaking with him we removed (had to get some help due to starter stats) our wall and relaid the gravel. Since then I have helped connect my deed and neighbouring deeds with a costal road on the west of Deli.

What I'm saying is the player in question has obviously not done this out of spite and in keeping with the main reason this post was created, lets not alienate a player and instead help out to fix it. I am happy to sail one of my characters down to help with the rerouting of the highway if the original poster would like me to.

Everyone here has played a game without reading all of the manual/rules first.

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Hi,

If you deed at the coast, you are obliged to enable free trespassing at the coast line.

Blocking the coast is an offense, and will be sanctioned.

I disagree with this. I mean, i do provide passage, and even a fenced area where players can seek refuge, but just because its on the coast it shouldn't be forced to give way to anyone. If you want to disembark, use the perimeter areas.

My idea was to keep the shore open for new players in their never ending search of "untouched lands". Maybe poorly formulated, I agree.

But I'd really love to see the shore line open, it would be by far enough to offer any way of trespassing along it. Without having to climb steep hills around a walled-in deed, blocking the shore, actually making it a drowning trap for new players.

Would you agree if we'd say:

"If you deed at the coast, you are obliged to enable free trespassing near the coast line, either with an open coast or with a paved, unlocked road leading to the other side." ?

(Changes in italics)

This shouldn't be a problem to accept & realize, right?

Have a god time!

PS: For the record:

I still think that we have ways too much "highways"!

Protected "highways" should be rare, only connecting the 4 directions from the spawn, and should be heritage sites, made and guarded with GM help.

Any other roads should just be any other roads, and should be handled using the common rules.

This would save us a lot of problems.

And after all - once, ages ago, Wurm was a game not about survival, but about starving in the wilderness, and then getting eaten by wolves.

We don't need no friggin highways all over the place, for this, do we?

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As long as they cannot attach highways to deeds and terraform any part of a deed tile I don't care what happens. ;)

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sorry i got tired of reading this so it may have been said in the last few pages. but really put the onus on getting permission on thehighway builder. make the highway tile people keep talking about gm only and make it so you have to trade regular paving tiles to get them. that way youd need to get perm for you highway. once its an actual highway approved by a gm then same rules as now apply. if you are going to make it a stupid pain, atleast make it a stupid pain for both parties.

Edited by ditters
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@xandra I agree about the coast. I have a tier just above my dock which I leveled and cobbled from my former northern neighbour to Daash's deed south of me. No fences or gates in the way, in fact my deed is open for anyone to walk around anyway apart from the area's I want locked like pens. Granted I have a stall up which people walking the path pass. ;)

Current project is an underground dock which will be open to use just like the overground one. :)

Edited by yetian

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Hi,

My idea was to keep the shore open for new players in their never ending search of "untouched lands". Maybe poorly formulated, I agree.

But I'd really love to see the shore line open, it would be by far enough to offer any way of trespassing along it. Without having to climb steep hills around a walled-in deed, blocking the shore, actually making it a drowning trap for new players.

Would you agree if we'd say:

"If you deed at the coast, you are obliged to enable free trespassing near the coast line, either with an open coast or with a paved, unlocked road leading to the other side." ?

(Changes in italics)

This shouldn't be a problem to accept & realize, right?

Have a god time!

PS: For the record:

I still think that we have ways too much "highways"!

Protected "highways" should be rare, only connecting the 4 directions from the spawn, and should be heritage sites, made and guarded with GM help.

Any other roads should just be any other roads, and should be handled using the common rules.

This would save us a lot of problems.

And after all - once, ages ago, Wurm was a game not about survival, but about starving in the wilderness, and then getting eaten by wolves.

We don't need no friggin highways all over the place, for this, do we?

Nope, if a player wants to wall off his docks he should be able to.

If a random guy wants to travel the shore and sees a walled deed near the shore line, then use the perimeter to go around.

In my deed you can't go around it by the shore, its 100+ steep.

sorry i got tired of reading this so it may have been said in the last few pages. but really put the onus on getting permission on thehighway builder. make the highway tile people keep talking about gm only and make it so you have to trade regular paving tiles to get them. that way youd need to get perm for you highway. once its an actual highway approved by a gm then same rules as now apply. if you are going to make it a stupid pain, atleast make it a stupid pain for both parties.

Edited by ReaverKane

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yetian, i wasnt pointing a finger at you just those that did not choose to read the whole argument and immediately label jerry as a rule breaker. The idea of mine and others is that highways should not be so negative for deed owners. Jerry should not have had to destroy his pens, enchanted grass, and other things just to satisfy a broken rule. If people could have asked him about it first im sure this would have never gotten so far, instead he spent a week breaking up his deed to accommodate everyone else with yet another road system through his deed and yes there is another way through his deed.

The canal he is making is massive and by far more beneficial to the community then the road. maybe people should stop and think about the big picture. punished for helping the community, poor guy. If i were him i would not finish that canal and tell everyone tough you messed up.

just a thought but if i paved a 50 tile buffer around my deed and connected it to a highway on all sides would that make it an untouchable highway? according to the rules it does.

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yetian, i wasnt pointing a finger at you just those that did not choose to read the whole argument and immediately label jerry as a rule breaker. The idea of mine and others is that highways should not be so negative for deed owners. Jerry should not have had to destroy his pens, enchanted grass, and other things just to satisfy a broken rule. If people could have asked him about it first im sure this would have never gotten so far, instead he spent a week breaking up his deed to accommodate everyone else with yet another road system through his deed and yes there is another way through his deed.

The canal he is making is massive and by far more beneficial to the community then the road. maybe people should stop and think about the big picture. punished for helping the community, poor guy. If i were him i would not finish that canal and tell everyone tough you messed up.

just a thought but if i paved a 50 tile buffer around my deed and connected it to a highway on all sides would that make it an untouchable highway? according to the rules it does.

Good idea!!

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Bump! This rule desperately needs to be rewritten for the sake of deed-owners. It is far too easy to build a highway and the penalties are far too great for such efforts.

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You desperatly need to let it go. The mods already said they'll discuss the rule but they also said there are no big problems with the current rule.

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Bump! This rule desperately needs to be rewritten for the sake of deed-owners. It is far too easy to build a highway and the penalties are far too great for such efforts.

It definitely needs to be clarified because some deed owners are being allowed to change, destroy, and KOS on Highways while others are not allowed to change anything.

It often seems to be whoever answers the call that decides what rule applies or not.

How about if there is a fence and a gate it is not considered public if there is not then it is public. that way a person adding a road through their deed could choose to allow it without compromising their deed security and functionality.

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I've not read the entire post, but I get your gist. You know, I could build a road from my deed on Exodus to Avonlea Bay. Now, here's the thing. I sand that road on both sides, it becomes a public highway, therefore, you can't touch it. But if I don't sand it, anyone with 21 Body strength and a shovel can come along ad dig that road out. Roads are looked on favourably by the CM's, canals, not so much. You mine out a canal, and see if it gets griefed. Even if you reinforce the walls, your canal can still be attacked. Why ? Because there is no rule ingame to protect them. A few of them are now being saved, like the Cave Canal, the very first one on Independence, and now the Kinoss Bay Canal, which I am glad to see now has heritage statust Nut most other canals don't get that. Hell, even Crystal Canal has'nt got it, and that's been there for 3 years .

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Settling down in someone's perimeter shouldn't be allowed, but that should be the extent of it.

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I decided to necro this, 8 years later, as I just enjoyed reading the feedback on both sides regarding the highway rules. Some of the suggestions were implemented, but it seems as if the original arguments are still applicable. It seems strange to me that so much emphasis can be placed on "infrastructure", and while it may be nice to have roads occasionally I do think those roads can negatively impact the player experience more-so than enhance it.

 

Someone commented about breaking highways making it more difficult for new players, but I think as it is the highways really benefit the established and veterans moreso than the newbie who really benefits mostly from an unbroken piece of land where he can cut some trees and set up a mine.

I think this is proven by the general flood of new and old players to the new servers, where there is untouched land.. unexplored areas and an element of risk.


While I understand why they chose to implement many of the suggestions regarding the highway, I feel in its current state the impact of highways is too severe. Also it seems strange to me that not only do Cats eyes prevent damage, my understanding is that that is permanent? So while, over time, an entire continent will regrow, trees will sprout, tundra will spread, you will still have this giant 2 wide ugly parking lot plastered across what could be a beautiful and fun forest to explore.

 

Much of the intrigue in many games is exploring, and getting lost as you try to find a certain area... and I just wonder if highways have a tendency to make things less intriguing. Where is the fun in just walking down a pre-paved 2 wide road into an area?
 

So far the highway plastered through this grove is negatively effecting my Fo follower roleplay, as I am not even allowed to plant trees on it.

 

My only suggestion would be is if maybe there was some decay timer so eventually they would degrade without upkeep.

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Andru: You're missing part of the point here. The highways are part of the landscape, and provide a functional form of landmark for new players. One of the easiest ways to find your way around established lands is following the road... and one of the best ways to find unclaimed land is find a long section and go off the highway. 

 

Your complaints about it being an ungrowing wasteland is needless histrionics - the area around it can still be the verdant forest or tundra, as neglected player structures will decay and disappear. It will still return to the lush landscape that you desire, and players who want a reliable way to travel or trade goods will have the highway for that. 

 

As for the rest - you're entitled to your opinion, but you complain about, "where is the fun in that" - some people do see it as fun. Different strokes, and all that. 

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Seriously, I don't even know how to comment on this. I know that in Wurm there is a Green Party and a Stone Party (and like IRL Left and Right I am neither), but this just too extreme for me. Not to mention how you disregard other players game play, you play a Fo follower, I play Vynora follower, and Vynora favours roads. Highways are one of unique features of Wurm. Due to their importance they deserve special protection, in fact I think they should have more protection not less. 

 

Well a highway doesn't have to be two-lane, can be also three or more tiles wide. 😉 

 

I think highways enrich the environment not destroy it. Of course, you can make a bad road, which will obstruct the view and disregard the surroundings, but it can be always fixed. 

 

Spoiler

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Edited by Platyna
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3 hours ago, Nekojin said:

Andru: You're missing part of the point here. The highways are part of the landscape, and provide a functional form of landmark for new players. One of the easiest ways to find your way around established lands is following the road... and one of the best ways to find unclaimed land is find a long section and go off the highway. 

 

Your complaints about it being an ungrowing wasteland is needless histrionics - the area around it can still be the verdant forest or tundra, as neglected player structures will decay and disappear. It will still return to the lush landscape that you desire, and players who want a reliable way to travel or trade goods will have the highway for that. 

 

As for the rest - you're entitled to your opinion, but you complain about, "where is the fun in that" - some people do see it as fun. Different strokes, and all that. 

No i think you completely glared over what I said, acknowledged absolutely nothing of what i said, including the valid points I expanded upon from previous points in the thread.

 

I get what you're saying, some people like building roads.


I'm the only person here in local most of the time besides my 1 villager. So, they come here, pave some monstrosity through the woods i was foresting, then leave.. and it's just, stuck there. I have to see it every day. So you have hours and hours of an active player finding distates with something within view range for.. what, some guys that are here for a week and then leave? Maybe a traveler here and there?

Why do those roads last forever though? They should decay like everything else without upkeep or repairs

Edited by Andru
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2 hours ago, Platyna said:

Seriously, I don't even know how to comment on this. I know that in Wurm there is a Green Party and a Stone Party (and like IRL Left and Right I am neither), but this just too extreme for me. Not to mention how you disregard other players game play, you play a Fo follower, I play Vynora follower, and Vynora favours roads. Not to mention that highways are one of unique features of Wurm. Due to their importance they deserve special protection, in fact I think they should have more protection not less. 

 

Well a highway doesn't have to be two-lane, can be also three or more tiles wide. 😉 

 

I think highways enrich the environment not destroy it. Of course, you can make a bad road, which will obstruct the view and disregard the surroundings, but it can be always fixed. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

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No they definitely destroy it... whether you're adding a road to it or not. you chop down trees, level areas, pave over things, create impassible cliffs and it prevents tree spread. IDK I've talked to players in game they feel the same way so they are deeding areas to prevent highways now.

 

I should clarify, one player specifically, who is in a similar situation. They deeded an area because they liked what it is. You know, payed real life money because of the scenery and ambience.

Most people don't want highways in their backyard IRL either. Locals rarely want this ######, and they are the ones directly impacted.

Also those photos don't really reflect this area, it is a thick area with diverse ecology. You have many many tree types, almost every one, and it is great for foraging. People came here ALL the time before this to take a tree or two, forage, etc. and because of this conflict I've had to deed all of the usable space so not only has this highway impacted me negatively, my forced deed expansion has negatively impacted countless players who came here to use one of the only good areas near overture on mel.

Edited by Andru

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2 minutes ago, Andru said:


No they definitely destroy it... whether you're adding a road to it or not. you chop down trees, level areas, pave over things, create impassible cliffs and it prevents tree spread. IDK I've talked to players in game they feel the same way so they are deeding areas to prevent highways now.

 

And Wurm thanks them for their monetary contributions.

 

The highways will still go in, they'll just go around a bit.

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17 minutes ago, Andru said:


No they definitely destroy it... whether you're adding a road to it or not. you chop down trees, level areas, pave over things, create impassible cliffs and it prevents tree spread. IDK I've talked to players in game they feel the same way so they are deeding areas to prevent highways now.

 

It is a sandbox MMORPG, we are supposed to change the environment. You can deed undeeded land, this is your right, but highways are required for a proper development of the area, by interfering with their creation you are taking away from other people easy and fast travelling and wagoner deliveries. They can and probably will also deed to ensure the road completion, and once the highway markers are placed the highway rules will apply and you will not be able to just pry it off.

Edited by Platyna

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There is some truth and reasoning in Andru's thoughts.

 

In many cases, a highway does not destroy the surrounding environment.

When planned properly and designed according to the nature around it, it can and will improve the landscape.

 

However, way too often the highway crew just wants to have a road from A to B, they want it done fast. Once the road is done and functional, they're done with it. What's around the road, is none of their business and not of their interest.

It's nature, it will adapt.

That's when "green people" have the right to riot.

Sometimes, building the road around a steppe is a better solution than through it.

Sometimes, a highway can narrow down from 3-wide to 2-wide, if it's in the middle of swamp or "no where".

 

I've also noticed, way too often do people build those massively wide roads when there's not really reason for it, other than "it's highway".

3 tiles paved, extra 1-2 tiles at the sides for sand or moss etc. And then this highway ends at some small village, barely sees any traffic.

 

I understand deed owners want their place to be connected to the "route" network. But 2 wide is also highway. Even gravel can be highway, and sometimes looks much better than fancy pottery brick.

 

 

Highway can decay and it may be modified.

If you're not happy what was built in your back yard; or if you want to place a deed on a highway, you are allowed to re-route it through other areas, as long as the connection remains active.

Highway can also decay on it's own, if the deeds connected to it are disbanded. Not likely to happen when the road connects starter towns; but again, you can modify the trajectory, if you really want to.

 

Official highway rules in effect, from this thread.

Spoiler

Highway Rules:
A ) You may not intentionally disable an active highway connection by removing the catseyes without rerouting or replacing them promptly .
    1> Deeds retain the right to disconnect from the highway system by removal of their waystone and any deactivated catseyes on their deed and perimeter.

B ) You may not intentionally block an active highway with locked structures. (This is known to cause problems for the Wagoner system.)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shmeric said:

There is some truth and reasoning in Andru's thoughts.

 

I've also noticed, way too often do people build those massively wide roads when there's not really reason for it, other than "it's highway".

3 tiles paved, extra 1-2 tiles at the sides for sand or moss etc. And then this highway ends at some small village, barely sees any traffic.

 

I understand deed owners want their place to be connected to the "route" network. But 2 wide is also highway.

 

 

I agree completely.  When I see a new highway built parallel to existing highways, for the sake of, in the words of the builders, "shortening the travel time by a few minutes," it's going too far. And that instance was for a road going across two-thirds of Celebration.

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Andru i'm sorry again.....

 

It's totally your right to hate highway and don't want to see some in game. I can be ok with the fact some are oversized and maybe when nobody use it they have to decay. 

I can totally understand all the complain you have about highway (no more trees, problems to harvest tree, uglay landscape) but ... YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED !!!!!!!

Please... seriously.....stop complain everywhere and say you are a victim...seriously it's a non sense....

 

 

https://prnt.sc/u5ivqv       <----- This is the highway who actually matter, between my deed and Oshana deed, 2 tiles larges.

                                                         

 

That highway is a multiplayer project, connecting Overture to tunnel (h16) through mountain, and next to south of J18. We stopped building it for you......

 

https://prnt.sc/u5ivik    Here you can see the old path of highway that we destroyed and replanted. The highway we stopped to build like 30 tiles away from the fence you can see, fence who is near 20 diagonal tiles to the border of your settlement. (so you actually live behind the top of the mountain you can see.......)

The mine door you can see is the tunnel we dig under the whole mountain for you .......

 

Seriously please stop complain about what we did here .... you have nothing to deal with .....You have no idea how many hours we  worked to please you ..... 

 

You are not a victim, you live in full forest, 1 tree were chopped near your deed because i needed some wood to warm food...) and i replanted it .......(who makes that ?????)

 

Seriously it is not possible to continue complaining everywhere about us ... 

 

Try to have fun, explore, farm, build some things, complain about game or bugs, but stop talking about us and that highway everywhere trying to find support everywhere with half of the truth....

 

Have a nice day, and seriously i hope you can stop that incredible crusade.

 

Have a nice day and have fun

 

Ps : Sorry all but it's not possible to continue like that ......

 

Edit: Oh and the 2 monster deed you have near your deed, we all are waiting they autodisband, because nobody plays and they are really really huge ....and it's a very nice place to sprout and harvest, just wait a bit (10 days if you are lucky) and you will have an amazing forest where you can do whatever you want (but you will see me everyday in that forest because i have to sprout and harvest fruits too ;) 

 

Edit 2: And if you want to talk about that or other things in game, just stop ignores me ;)

 

 

Edited by Nydogg
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When I read about the whole drama, starting with Andru's complaints and accusations about griefing, I see just one thing: He is on the wrong server if not on the wrong cluster. On Melody, with her hundreds of players online at the same time, with hundreds if not over thousand of deeds, and with the legitimate wish of several deed owners to be connected to the fledgling highway system, there is certainly no "right on the own off deed forest". One may politely ask for some consideration with road projects, but there is no right altogether to have that granted, not even not to have a highway close to or even inside the own perimeter.

 

All off deed land is common good, everybody has the same right to pick sprout, to cut wood, to dig, to forest and botanize, even to erect a shack or a house, and of course, to work on a highway connection. And once a highway is established, a deed owner in adjacent land cannot do anything but rerouting without (at least longer) interruption. Those rules are long proven and tested, and I fail to see much room for changes. Decay of active highways is out of the question, and the general decay of pavement is low to avoid unneccessary interruptions of communication ways, especially on less populous servers. All that is working fairly well.

 

This is not to say that I do not understand Andru's feelings. But for claiming "his forest" (off deed) he is on the wrong server. On Xanadu or Independence, it would not be a problem for him to find an area for his own, even one close to starter towns, shores, and even highways, with hundreds over hundreds of tiles of wilderness, the next neighbour being away a couple of hundred tiles. I love such neighbour relations which are conflict free among reasonable players, and can be fairly close. After all, a fast horse, HH cart, or ship lets distances shrink considerably.

 

So this is rather an argument more for a north-south emigration portal for those who cannot stand the crowds.

Edited by Ekcin
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