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Hussars

Token Movement W/o Disbanding?

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Hi all,

Searching through the forums and it has come up in various other threads, but nothing dedicated to it recently.

Deed Token Moves.

The ideas I've seen the most support for are (in no set order):

  • One time move for free
  • Cool down timer (free or paid move)
  • Asymmetrical deed edges

To be clear, I am not asking for rampant token moving and I do personally feel there should be a limit on repeatedly doing this, however having to re-deed to expand because someone drops a 1x1 building at the edge of your deed (or another deed is "ninja" planted), to move the deed over a couple of tiles is a bit much.

Maybe a combination of the first and second points above? You get 1 free token relocation, as long as it is within the existing deed lines (not the perimeter), and additional moves for a fee with a cool down (24hours, 1 month, etc...) As part of the move, you are given a deed relocation form (either for free or 10s to replace purchasing the new settlement form as you need to now), and like the settle form, all of the same check operations are performed, with your current deed being ignored.

Or just the third (not sure it this might raise issues if you use a Spirit Templar as their roam distance may be based on token location, like the guards and their tower).

Other ideas?

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Hi all,

Searching through the forums and it has come up in various other threads, but nothing dedicated to it recently.

Deed Token Moves.

The ideas I've seen the most support for are (in no set order):

  • One time move for free
  • Cool down timer (free or paid move)
  • Asymmetrical deed edges

To be clear, I am not asking for rampant token moving and I do personally feel there should be a limit on repeatedly doing this, however having to re-deed to expand because someone drops a 1x1 building at the edge of your deed (or another deed is "ninja" planted), to move the deed over a couple of tiles is a bit much.

Maybe a combination of the first and second points above? You get 1 free token relocation, as long as it is within the existing deed lines (not the perimeter), and additional moves for a fee with a cool down (24hours, 1 month, etc...) As part of the move, you are given a deed relocation form (either for free or 10s to replace purchasing the new settlement form as you need to now), and like the settle form, all of the same check operations are performed, with your current deed being ignored.

Or just the third (not sure it this might raise issues if you use a Spirit Templar as their roam distance may be based on token location, like the guards and their tower).

Other ideas?

I like this one. I think it would be pretty handy and usefull for all of us players, having an option or the possibility for deed relocation.

i suport this idea cause recently i had to disband my 33x18 deed and place it all over again... it may be nothing, i know there's bigger deeds out there, but now i own a 33x77 size deed.

So i imagine how would be to disband it, buy a new settelment form, buy the same amount of times again or more... + the upkeep. would be very expensive.

i suport the 1st idea: 1 time moving for free;

It could be a timer counting maybe till players be able to move it again, perhaps in months;

and yes, some kind of wirt/ settlement relocation form by instance.

There are some possibilities.

Cheers to you Hussars

Edited by Maedhros

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I would like to support assymetrical deeds, because I noticed far too often, that people complained about having a mountain in their back they couldnt actually use, but had to deed it nontheless, also it costs much more to expand on two sides, because of more tiles.

if its about the token, that it should be in the middle, maybe it would be useful if the token gets automatically moved to the new center according to the new size after finishing the resizing ? ;) we wouldnt need to "replace" or "move" the deed then

the new place of the token could be made visible like the borders of the deed too^^

Edited by Miretta

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I would like to support assymetrical deeds, because I noticed far too often, that people complained about having a mountain in their back they couldnt actually use, but had to deed it nontheless, also it costs much more to expand on two sides, because of more tiles.

if its about the token, that it should be in the middle, maybe it would be useful if the token gets automatically moved to the new center according to the new size after finishing the resizing ? ;) we wouldnt need to "replace" or "move" the deed then

the new place of the token could be made visible like the borders of the deed too^^

Except that you could also be prevented from particular resizing (if the token moved to a central location) due to structures / water / any other reason the token cannot occupy the required tile.

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Except that you could also be prevented from particular resizing (if the token moved to a central location) due to structures / water / any other reason the token cannot occupy the required tile.

That was one of my concerns a well. The other is the allowing you to adjust edges means you could creep your token/deed if you kept the size but adjusted each edge plus/minus the same number of tiles.

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Mind you, I see no reason why the token would have to be in the centre. The fact that they all are at the moment is simply as a result of the symmetrical resizing,

In some cases, having a centralised token is a good thing - it makes it easy to locate. In other cases however, it can cause problems - sometimes leaving the token halfway up the side of a mountain, or forcing a player to deed unwanted land because it can't be placed close to water.

Allowing a player to place token anywhere (it is allowed to be) and allowing 4 directional expansions instead of just N-S, E-W would be the easiest way to counter almost all the problems:

* You wouldn't be forced to have a deed token in an inaccessible or inconvenient location just because its the centre.

* You would be able to resize in any particular direction even if you were blocked by something on the opposite side.

* You wouldn't need to move the token or deal with issues about moving it automatically after deed resizing.

I'd also really like to see deeds have a 'free perimeter' optional reduction of the 'free perimeter' instead of it being forced as 5.

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Moving the token by 5 tiles for a months maintenance payment would be good

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This has been suggested before and Rolf replied that it would probably never change, due to mechanics and possible exploits on PvP servers. If you can convince him to separate deed code between Freedom and Epic (+Chaos) he might be willing to change it, otherwise I don't think it will ever change.

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Basically I have to -1 this one too, because I have spent more than 1 gold moving deeds and I would want a complete refund of all my deeds as well as a roll back of all costs I had to spend to move my deeds. This Idea is opening a can of Wurm's for those who have already been soaked over the years. ( pun intended ).

If you want to move your deed after you plant it that it a choice and a costly one if you make your deed too big, but its still a choice and should stay the way it is currently.

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So everyone else needs to keep suffering because you already did. Right.

  • Like 2

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Basically I have to -1 this one too, because I have spent more than 1 gold moving deeds and I would want a complete refund of all my deeds as well as a roll back of all costs I had to spend to move my deeds. This Idea is opening a can of Wurm's for those who have already been soaked over the years. ( pun intended ).

If you want to move your deed after you plant it that it a choice and a costly one if you make your deed too big, but its still a choice and should stay the way it is currently.

You and others disbanded and replanted deeds fully aware of the cost. Because that has a potential to change doesn't mean you should be compensated. That's like saying that because the ps3 is $200, anyone who bought it on release for $700 should get the difference back. Like Asciana said, everyone else needs to keep suffering because you already did? That seems a bit unfair, its what some people would say is the cost of being an early adopter. Anyways....

I support this idea, but slightly modified. I believe you should be able to recenter your settlement token, but you would have to expand your settlement to include all land you previously had as well, so therefore if you had say a 10x10 and you put the token on the bottom corner, you'd have to expand to 40x40 to move, so you could encompass the entire original area. Just my opinion to try and keep it as fair as possible.

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Like I said full refunds for all or forget it I don't care how you butter it up.

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You and others disbanded and replanted deeds fully aware of the cost. Because that has a potential to change doesn't mean you should be compensated. That's like saying that because the ps3 is $200, anyone who bought it on release for $700 should get the difference back. Like Asciana said, everyone else needs to keep suffering because you already did? That seems a bit unfair, its what some people would say is the cost of being an early adopter. Anyways....

None the less, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Edited by Kamikazifly

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None the less, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I'm not saying hes not entitled to his opinion, I'm fine if people don't like ideas, it's not even my idea. The only problem I have is with the concept that others should suffer because he suffered and the concept that he should get his money back if it were to change. I'm sure when new servers opened up, some players felt cheated because they wanted a chance at new land and had to disband old deeds, should they get their money back because something changed with the game? It's the same concept. It's not my intent to be impolite, to offend, or to troll, not to Protunia and not to a Community Manager, so if my message is taken the wrong way, I apologize, but I promise I wont detract any farther from the conversation.

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Like JT said, it's like you bought something and already accepted the price it was at.

Now 6 month later the owner puts the item on sale, so you go back into the shop and throw a tantrum demanding he rise the price back up or give you a refund.

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Basically I have to -1 this one too, because I have spent more than 1 gold moving deeds and I would want a complete refund of all my deeds as well as a roll back of all costs I had to spend to move my deeds. This Idea is opening a can of Wurm's for those who have already been soaked over the years. ( pun intended ).

If you want to move your deed after you plant it that it a choice and a costly one if you make your deed too big, but its still a choice and should stay the way it is currently.

My last replant was almost a gold by itself. Counting all of my main deed moves is more than 4 gold at last count. I'm not asking for a refund on my past choices, just looking at ways to improve every ones game play.

To everyone in general...

That said, as asked in other threads, if you cannot provide game play (even if just opinion on how it could impact playability) reasons as to why things are not viable or a good idea (personal "butt hurt" isn't game play) then you are not contributing only soap boxing.

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Hi,

This has been suggested before and Rolf replied that it would probably never change, due to mechanics and possible exploits on PvP servers. If you can convince him to separate deed code between Freedom and Epic (+Chaos) he might be willing to change it, otherwise I don't think it will ever change.

This would probably be the best thing Wurm could ever get, and would certainly lure back quite some long time paying players that left enraged during the recent months.

The constant PvP-related nerfs for the PvE servers (the "cash cows" of Wurm) as well as the constant "we cannot do this, it would destroy PvP" could be avoided this way - and would, for sure, make Wurm a ways more attractive and profitable game.

Everybody would profit from this:

  • The PvP players would get quick fight balance patches, when there's no need anymore to test all and anything against the consequences & the needs of the many, many tree-huggers.
  • The PvE players could care their bears in peace and happiness, they'd get game mechanics suiting their needs and wishes, and wouldn't get the nerf bat in their backs any other week.
  • Rolf would be relieved from handling those nasty ppl that are playing his game in a manner he despises, and could concentrate on writing cool server code, and to groom his bright eyed children, the PvP'ers. (all 3 of 'em - sry, couldn't resist ;-)) Evil Joke alarm!)
    Because:
  • All would be happy and pleased, there'd be a warm fuzzy feeling all over the Wurmian lands (aside the PvP servers, there the feeling would be enjoyable grim and vicious, as the ppl there like it), many lost children would come back and happily pay as in the good old times, Wurm would drown in players and money, and:
  • Rolf could hire a "PvE game mechanics developer", and this one could, with the help of Rolf's cool server code and the help of the PvE community, create an even more stunning gaming experience.

Wurm could be so much more successful and profitable. And we could have asymmetrical deeds, on the PvE servers.

Have a good time!

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I think the problem is that everyone assumes I meant token moves should not have a cost. I never said this. I can understand how this is implied by my points:

  • One time move for free
  • Cool down timer (free or paid move)

I was referring to the need to disband and reform a deed. The acutal use of a NEW settlement form, not the elimination of planting/creation costs.

Allow me to expand on these two points specifically since my previous example was probably not even read by some users who tend toward knee-jerk reactions.

One Time Move:

You plant a deed and decide to later move it 5 tiles west (or any number of tiles as long as they are within your current settlement NOT counting the perim area), there are no structures or deeds in the area blocking the tiles you will be covering. So you go to your token, select Move Token, and receive a Movement form (again this could still cost the 10s or could be a 1-time per settlement option). You take the form to the new token location, and go through all the same steps of founding a new settlement, EXCEPT only your current deed is ignored when doing the boundry check. You still have to be holding all of the writs for all structures within the boundry area.

You pay all of the same fees (unless this is added as a 1-time free move, then it is 10s cheaper since you don't buy the form), you get to move your token without having to wait for a disband (which also means you don't need to reinvite everyone in your settlement, rejoin alliances, etc...)

Cool Down timer:

As above, except you get to move the token again without needing to refound the settlement. In this case, I would suggest at least a 24 hour cool down (or longer) between moves, and if there is a free move allowed, this be limited to only the FIRST move, all other moves should cost silver.

This reduces the ability to exploit token moves in PVP or PVE, maintains the money sink for Rolf (lets face it, that is what deeds are), and adds a slight convenience (or at least removes an annoyance) to a system that needs something to make it more attractive.

This being said...

If you want to move the token outside the current On-Deed boundry (even if just 1 tile into the perim), you need to disband/refound the settlement.

Edited by Hussars

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Ok thanks for the clarification....On that note....-1 and -1 to either of those

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Small info: deeds are no money sink, all the money goes back to the traders and can be exchanged against crafted goods.

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Basically I have to -1 this one too, because I have spent more than 1 gold moving deeds and I would want a complete refund of all my deeds as well as a roll back of all costs I had to spend to move my deeds. This Idea is opening a can of Wurm's for those who have already been soaked over the years. ( pun intended ).

You strike me as the kind of person that would take back your VHS machine that you paid 500$ for in 1985 to radio shack and say "Hey... its now 20$ for one of these... i want my 480$ difference back!"

No offense... but things in life change... as do the costs that are associated with them.

Man... your gonna have a REALLY bad day when you drive your first brand new car off the lot.

Edited by Perryn

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I think a once a month limit on token moving would alleviate fears of constant token moving and provide deed owners with a little flexability which is always nice.

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+1 on this ! Someday you'll need to cover gold vein that's happen in your perimeter and you are blocked by neighbour on another side so can't just resize and you'll pay full cost for your new 80x90 deed just for moving token by 3 tiles.

P.S. Protunia Why don't you ask for refund on gas station after price change on fuel ?

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Ok ok guys, I think they go the point by now (;

Edited by Keldun

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Maybe a 120 day cool off, plus a fee of 1s for every tile it is moved in a NSEW direction (assuming the basic "area" remains unchanged, since this is NOT a resizing). "Diagonal" moves aren't covered (ie, 5 tiles diagonal is really 5 + 5).

So moving the token three tiles south is only 3s since it is a pretty trivial adjustment, but moving it 7 tiles east and 6 tiles north will cost much more: 13s, since that is a pretty radical change. Moving it a very far distance (say 20 tiles west, 10 tiles south) starts getting to the extremely expensive point where you seriously consider a disband and reformation. After all its hardly the same deed then; with small deeds especially it may be much more cost effective to disband and reform. Then 120 days till that token can be moved again. I also would like to see a 5s "Rename Option" at the same time, but not if it jeopardizes the initial proposition.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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