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Kraljtatov

Mills

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Would be nice to see sawmills and grinding mills introduced. They would likely have a reduction in overall QL, or perhaps a blending of QL to counteract the ease of production.

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I was thinking about it just yesterday!! Yeahhh!! But they will need so much new parts. Anyway, they would be really nice!!

And with that, some kind of "power source", just as water wheel or wind... Wheel? Just for the mills. But I guess im asking too much with that.

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Was thinking wind seeing as there isn't an easy way to attach one to water.

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Been discussed many times in chat/forums. Many reasons why to not have them, unless they produce a whole new item. They would lower the market value of whatever they produce.

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My Mag friend made a princely sum grinding 11k flour for a customer, so I have to -1, there are people out there who love bulk creation and this might take away from the game for them.

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Do people just not understand literally at all? Ever few weeks a post like this comes. This can just. Not. Happen. Any type of mass production device wouldn't never work in Wurm, because it means you can make thousands of resources withing minutes by yourself solely.

-It would eliminate the first way a newbie can make money to get 10s for premium (bulk materials)

-It would break every market to resources

-It would eliminate the cause to live in groups or live in villages that do things for you

Think about the outcomes and look at it from every point of view that could happen before you even mention something.

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I used to be a fan of RTS games like the Age of Empires franchise, but I always dreamt of a 3D first person variant. Wurm comes very close and I love it. The next step would be craft specific buildings like sawmills,mason's,weaver's,blacksmiths's,... No mass production but only a small skill gain bonus for players working in them. These buildings would need more materials to build and have a different graphic. It won't hurt new players or hermits and also incourage community (village) projects. Wurm would look very nice and different.

if only some day...

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+1

you still need to produce the wheat for it or whatever grains it needs....and also...alot of people are already "mass producing" because of skill grinding....

and we could actually use newbies as apprentices, like we are doing it now also with grinding hot food cooking skill ;)

so I don't see a huge problem with that^^

also it would be nice to use it together with those already nice wind mechanics wurm has^^

maybe make it difficult to build like guard towers and have a maximum mills per 50 tiles or something...

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+1,

though to balance it out it probably needs a couple of disadvantages, here are some possible ideas for disadvantages:

- for example make it so it needs to be maintained often, and not maintained in the way of requiring the simple repair action but in a way where it requires some new parts every now and then by breaking down while you are using it.

- It could also require a minimum wind speed in order to function (same for water mills but I'll ignore those since water speed doesn't exist right now but wind speed does), if the wind isn't strong enough then it simply won't work. And too strong a wind could even increase the chance of it breaking down while in use.

- QL wise the planks could come out way lower then when you'd do it yourself, and the woodscrap : plank ratio could be higher, so one log would give you more scrap and less planks then when doing it yourself. This way it's an inefficient way to generate planks when looking at it from a raw material point of view.

- You'd probably also need to use each log on the mill yourself, so you can't put 50 logs in there and do something else, you'd actually have to use it for each log and stay there. The difference with the saw would just be that you'd have to use a saw 6 times on a log, while the mill only needs to be used once per log.

As for the grain mill, that should probably not have the last 2 of these disadvantages and I'd actually propose making that the main and best way to produce flour. Instead give it this disadvantage:

- Producing flour through this mill will simply take longer then doing it yourself, say you could put in 50 grains at once and it would turn those into flour, with the mill using your milling skill and it's ql (just as it's normally your milling skill and the ql of the grindstone), but time wise it would take twice as long (possibly longer?) as doing it yourself with a grindstone. This means you could do something else while doing this as long as you refill it every now and then, of course you could also have more mills going at once but that also means more maintenance due to breakdowns.

It should also be quite difficult to build for obvious reasons, several times harder than the tower and requiring complex components sounds like a good way to do it. Possibly also require that there are less than Y trees within X radius of the mill, else the wind will lose strength and the mill won't fuction.

I really don't see much of an issue with it then, for the plank market you'd still have to be standing at the mill to make the planks and you'd need to gather way more trees. As for the grains, I've made thousands of flour too and I think this would be a nice addition. The markets will adept to it if it's properly balanced. It's not like you can't mass produce stuff with 90 woa tools anyway and the mill can't have woa cast on it. And skill gain wise you'd probably still be better off doing it yourself too instead of using a mill. As long as the mill isn't the obvious best choice then it's fine. But saying that mass production systems can't work in Wurm is bull, what do you call high woa tools that can make something every 4 seconds? After stamina regen time that's easily 12 items a minute, or 700+ an hour. How is that not mass production already? With a saw and the logs I could make 7k planks in 10 hours with such a high woa high ql saw, are you really saying that's not mass production? over 5k a day?!... Yeah it will require a ton of trees, but with my suggestion for the mill that would require even more trees.

Taking high ql woa tools into account, mills can't break any market.

Edited by Ecrir
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A few issues I see with your idea Ecrir.

1. Clear Cutting. It is already something most Wurmians do not like and this would promote it a lot.

2. Creation of useless items: Creating even more woodscraps is not good on many levels... one being a drain on the server performance due to increased item count... an item that has little to no use.

One thing I did like about your post was the use of a Mill. Put in say 50 grains and it would take longer to grind than if you did one at a time. Ild suggest a drastic increase like 10x longer... since its a "Set it and Forget it" method... but I would suggest promoting that idea.

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For grinding flour; certainly yes. Not sure about planks or other building materials becuase of their vitality to the game (flour is more of a luxury item).

Open the mill, toss in a 100x of a certain grain, and depending on the wind it can take up to a few hours to grind them completely. Still need to farm the grains, still need to bring them to the mill. Make the flour lower ql than if created by hand, and producing it is obviously slower and wind dependant, so it doesn't take away from the "flour market" or whatever the hell at all. If someone really enjoys bulk creation of flour they can still do so ;)

I'm also thinking about olives and olive oil, since this has become somewhat of a more needed product that is still a pain to create.

On that note, spinning wheels. I have easily spent hours just spinning all the cloth (with a 94 woa spindle) just to make the bedsheets for a public inn. No way in hell I'm ever going to be making another one for people's convenience if it takes that long. I don't care if the action is actually an action where you have to sit at the wheel and its canceled if you move, but some way to make it less painful would be great.

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The load up, fire and forget mill, sounds perfectly reasonable with the extra long duration. I'd even be inclined to say that the QL of the flour comes out uniformly based on about 75% of the overall grain QL and the QL of the mill itself. Doesn't have to necessarily be wind powered... animals used to walk in circles grinding stuff too..

Saw mill for planks is a little more dubious. I like the idea that you simply feed it a log but it only generates say 4 planks, and 16kg of wood scrap. (The added woodscrap from this isn't going to really impact the server much - mostly it all gets shoved in a BSB anyway or combined into a couple of larger blocks to save floor space and that 100 item limit per tile). Reduced QL on the produced planks perhaps too (based on 75% of log ql and the ql of the mill) - machines are not exactly good at quality control.

I think broken parts is perhaps pushing the existing wurm engine a little beyond its current capabilities, but increased decay rate certainly.

Spinning wheel... ooh yeah. Bring it on. Pretty much the same conditions as the grain mill.. combine a whole load of cotton, fire and forget. Strings come out based on 75% of the QL of cotton and the QL of the spinning wheel.

I'll also throw in a new use for the huge tub - grape stomping for wine - bulk processing of grapes rather than the fruit press. Same conditions as others could apply.

Edited by Tinkerer

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-1

Part of the economy for newer players is to make things and sell them all this would accomplish is ruin that part of the economy. I do not think we need to see bulk creation machines for anything at all in Wurm.

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-1

Mills itself is a cool idea but producing an item that is already in game is no point. Maybe if the sawmill produced an entirely different item that is added to the game. Maybe change the item(s) needed for shields, housing, floorboards ect to a new item and only sawmills can create them. Plus we already have a queue system that we can use.

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-1

Mills itself is a cool idea but producing an item that is already in game is no point. Maybe if the sawmill produced an entirely different item that is added to the game. Maybe change the item(s) needed for shields, housing, floorboards ect to a new item and only sawmills can create them. Plus we already have a queue system that we can use.

I agree if new Items are added specifically just for a new type of creation tool then yeah you could do this mills idea.

I just do not want to see things that give reason and opportunity for new players to be involved in the economy of Wurm removed from some machine that mass produces items for players who do not want to pay someone else to create them for them.

As it is you can mass produce items even faster now then just a few months ago there is no reason to add anything else to make this happen faster.

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Wurm has anti-macro measures in place already, this is essentially a macro. The game is meant to be played, not automated. I have to say no.

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Wurm has anti-macro measures in place already, this is essentially a macro. The game is meant to be played, not automated. I have to say no.

no more a marco than being able to queue multiple actions with one click of the mouse.

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no more a marco than being able to queue multiple actions with one click of the mouse.

Point taken.

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The way I see it mills could be of use as/if:

- they need lots of materials (cfr shipbuilding and guardtowers) and have an unique graphic which adds to the Wurm landscape

- maybe a minimum skill required (30 carpentry ?) =( maybe attract more prems)

- because of difficulty to build acts more as a community/village building project

- mill acts as container like bsb which averages item QL and eliminates server clutter

- QL of items produced (floor/planks/cotton string/woodscrap/rags) depends on Ql of input material + Ql of mill (+ QL of skill of player ?) but will always be far less than when created by hand (due to averaging out and another factor?)

When all these conditions are met, I don't see a problem for the new player trying to earn a silver.

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The way I see it mills could be of use as/if:

- they need lots of materials (cfr shipbuilding and guardtowers) and have an unique graphic which adds to the Wurm landscape

- maybe a minimum skill required (30 carpentry ?) =( maybe attract more prems)

- because of difficulty to build acts more as a community/village building project

- mill acts as container like bsb which averages item QL and eliminates server clutter

- QL of items produced (floor/planks/cotton string/woodscrap/rags) depends on Ql of input material + Ql of mill (+ QL of skill of player ?) but will always be far less than when created by hand (due to averaging out and another factor?)

When all these conditions are met, I don't see a problem for the new player trying to earn a silver.

except that you are making it so that no new player could ever make them, and so that no experienced player would ever need to buy bulk materials again.

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Oh no the non-existant bread market might collapse. lol

I would like mills.

Edited by Wiro

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At first I'm all +1. Then, by the time I get done listing all the disadvantages in observance of game balance, I'm asking myself, why bother.

- The person who loaded it needs to be near it. Offline resources production isn't acceptable.

- Should have minimum skills so you can't use a F2P alt. I'm not sure what those minimums should be, but watching the mill would be a great job for a new premium player.

- Some good restrictions might be to reduced output ql, substantially longer creation time, more resources consumed.

- The mill should be extra extra hard to make.

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I like it but don't make some one watch it it should work on its own and it should need 30 carpentry so carpentars with higher skill can work and earn some silver and only way for someone to use it is to be on the writ as a guest or owner or if it is built on a deed then only the people of the deed can use it if given permission by the owner or if they are hired by the owner

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