Local And World Maps Skill

[Miretta 1,415]

I just got a nice idea of something that could be nicely implemented without adding more stress to the servers and also add a map to the game without making it like in other mmos

so how about we can use reed/Paper and ink to actually draw maps?

and making it a skill ^^

as example: if you start you maybe have a very low sight radius, like 5 feet around you and you can only draw basic shapes like grass planes and such, no forrests or buildings or such

when you go higher in skill, you have a wider range and you can draw more detailed, add streets and such

and so on

the ql could also be made dependant on the ink and paper ql (so color is not bleeding out when drawing as example)

those maps wouldn't really disturb exploring, it's more the opposite, cause you always draw the map in your actual time. You can only updating it by actually moving to that locations and drawing it again, maybe even with some ql loss when drawing over.

you can sell those maps to everyone and they can vary in size, from a simple local map of freedom market, to wider map like a whole village or even a world map(which is quite difficult to maintain) those maps could even get some community projects started, where people could hand over the map to travellers so they wander around and continue the map.

this would create huge possibilities and because wurm is an ever changing world, it would never get boring or loosing it's market

btw. I'm sorry if someone else posted that idea already, but i didnt know how to use search function for map, if "map" is too short lolz

edit: this is no gps map idea, it would be more like those maps you can use in real life too, drawn on paper, static and so on, maybe drawn like to columbus times

Edited July 31, 2012 by Miretta

[Perryn 79]

+1 to being able to make maps.

Finding the most optimal method would have to be researched but allowing players to make maps is a definite +1

Any skeptics... please realize as it stands most players use maps outside the game anyways. Bringing it ingame has little impact on the fact maps are being used.

I would say no to a radial UI map... but a pop up paper map that you would have to open and close to use... kinda like the old school maps of UO.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Perryn

[Klaa 4,872]

Cartography

[Perryn 79]

Cartography

BING BING BING!! WE HAVE A WINNA FOLKS!!

[Miretta 1,415]

lolz yeah dont ask me why i didnt get the name^^

[joedobo 1,187]

+1. I like that this would give the gamer the tools to make a map regardless of their RL skills.

Your right that this has come up before. Maps in Wurm has always been a source of dispute. As I remember it, the anti-map people figured internet sharing would sooner or later result in completed map. It is kinda like how folks publishing answers to mediation questions removed the uncertainty of choosing the wrong answer.

I'm a firm believer in the don't look idea. if you don't want a map showing all, then don't look at it. But don't go imposing your ideals on other players who want a map.

A limited use tool to find the x.y location of the reference point used to make the map would be useful.

[Tpikol 1,057]

we have an official complete map anyway now,so that point is gone .

this would be really nice if its well done but would be hard to do from scratch

Edited July 3, 2012 by Nume

[Miretta 1,415]

we have an official complete map anyway now,so that point is gone .

this would be really nice if its well done but would be hard to do from scratch

I guess rolf would need to add some code to recognize where deed are and how they are called to scribe them on the map.

I mean my whole idea wouldn't just destroy the community maps tbh. because they are still faster to make, because people can just pop up and post their deed coordinates, ingame you would have to travel to that spot and then you would need to replicate and sell that map to players so it's a whole lot different, but makes the game far more complete in my opinion ^^

[cooutlaw119 16]

great idea

[Klaa 4,872]

Eh the official map dumps were released due to the rampant cheating with illegal map dumps. It was rather laughable how some tried to pass them off as handmade.

However, even with the terrain already supplied and charted, there is still a need for maps showing villages, borders, landmarks, etc. There already exists playermade maps serving to fill that void ingame.

[Bart 954]

a nice thing would be youd have to keep travelling to keep it up to date, eg a new deed is started, you go there, and add it to the map, next time you can map any new buildings there etc

[Tinkerer 107]

Meh.. neither here nor there on this one. I have a compass and a rough map outside the game to refer to. Kind of like it that way.. getting lost occasionally and trying to figure out where I am. At the same time, it seems a shame not to have any built in skill for it. Being able to view a mapdump in-game would be handy instead of alt-tabbing etc, but certainly wouldn't want it to show me where I was or x,y coords etc. Real maps when orienteering etc don't do that for you.

+/- ...

But yeah, imagine it would be pretty hard and time consuming trying to code something into the game for it now.

[Wort 67]

. . . makes the game far more complete in my opinion ^^

This.

I don't like the idea of a navsat auto-centering directional map, some sort of in-game map that is created by and/or purchased from players using an in-game skill would certainly add a level of polish and completion to the game.

[Miretta 1,415]

Meh.. neither here nor there on this one. I have a compass and a rough map outside the game to refer to. Kind of like it that way.. getting lost occasionally and trying to figure out where I am. At the same time, it seems a shame not to have any built in skill for it. Being able to view a mapdump in-game would be handy instead of alt-tabbing etc, but certainly wouldn't want it to show me where I was or x,y coords etc. Real maps when orienteering etc don't do that for you.

agree this is why i would want a non standard way of maps ingame, I love to get lost from time to time (even if im pretty good with orientation) and it just makes alot more fun to actually "think" a bit when looking on a map. You could also say, it makes the game a bit more adventureous^^

[Alyeska 2,621]

A map, that you can only draw when you are on the location (draw only the area hat covers local chat, or even less, and catography skill determines the resolution), without a gps tracking system, and with handwritten notes on it where towns and landmarks etc are would do no harm to the game and would add a lot to papyrus and ink. I'm not sure about trading them, but I suppose it doesn't matter anyways. There's already mapdumps out, completely updated and filled in, so this would still be more difficult than using one of those maps.

[joedobo 1,187]

All the information to draw a map based on local area is already in the client. The client doesn't store that stuff, it gets it form the server. If the client can render the world, it knows where things are. Could we not use that to make a top down, or no elevation, map view? Based on current map dump there must be tools already available which we could perhaps apply to a small versions using local client side data?

I want a map system where players don't have to use RL skills and external programs to make the map.

1. The game automatically stitches map section together.

2. A x.y accurate reference point for the map. I'm not asking for the standard mini-map we see in most games.

explanation....

Where I live in RL their are disputes over old land when it survey with modern accurate means. This is because the old timers used relative measurements from various landmarks. Measurements mistakes, landmarks disappear, and chaining of one relative measurement to anther can compound problems. Whats this all mean? One could argue that we are old timers in this game and should realistically have to deal with the same problem. I argue that this is a game, its is far more convent to have a x.y accurate reference point for the map. I'm not asking for the standard mini-map we see in most games.

[Klaa 4,872]

Whoa... no to GPS-level coordinates. Unless one argued the gods are actually AIs operating ancient sattelite systems

[Tinkerer 107]

A big no to any 'local area' map idea.

Any map based on your local area would by principle have you centred in the middle. You could then simply look at the map and know what is over the hill you can't see beyond, or round the next bend. Not only that, but by comparing your 'local map' with the map dump, you can very easily figure out where you are and which way you are facing.

Without a map, you are often times forced to find higher ground to survey the landscape and get an idea of where you are.. looking for lakes and such to use as landmarks. A 'local map' removes any such need from the game and would spoil a lot of the fun I feel.

If anything the map should be vague at best and the whole server with no indication about where you currently are on said map. Preferably just something to minimise alt-tabbing.

Having a mouseover (cursor based) x,y displayed would be a useful option simply for chat and relaying positional information to other people, but it should not show your current x,y. In real life, people could point to a spot on a map, but via chat that's obviously not possible. being able to tell someone the location you are referring to on the map is one thing, but have the game tell you where you are is quite another.

It would also be nice if there was a way to make small notes on the map to mark things you find/want to return to at some point. (eg. tar pit, clay, possible deed site, a friends deed, out of the way trader.. that sort of thing)

Edited July 6, 2012 by Tinkerer

[Miretta 1,415]

who got that idea with the GPS and middle of the map thing?XD if you draw a map, you would actually only be able to draw that surroundings from your point of view, but if you change your view, you are not automatically changing the maps center, I would prefer it alot if maps would simply, have to be drawn as an action (not while only running through) and you have only a specific amount of space on your paper(depending on paper size)

so, if you wanna see whats behind a hill, you still have to go there first, because I wouldn't want that radius to draw a map to be too big. ( a whole local area would be just too much)

also I'm not sure how to handle it inside the game code.

and as i said, it would be nice if that skill level in cartography would determine the "details" on the map, like lakes, streets etc.

[Wort 67]

I don't remember if I read this somewhere or read something similar and came up with this later, so if I'm stealing someone's idea, sorry.

How about a cartography skill that you can "turn on" similar to climbing. While it is activated, you draw the map as you can see on your screen. Your movement speed would be reduced to as slow as or slower than climbing, including while turning. Your skill would determine how far ahead of you you could draw, and paper size determines how much info can be stored.

[Miretta 1,415]

I don't remember if I read this somewhere or read something similar and came up with this later, so if I'm stealing someone's idea, sorry.

How about a cartography skill that you can "turn on" similar to climbing. While it is activated, you draw the map as you can see on your screen. Your movement speed would be reduced to as slow as or slower than climbing, including while turning. Your skill would determine how far ahead of you you could draw, and paper size determines how much info can be stored.

good idea ! maybe it could use stamina also, so you have to stop from time to time to regain stamina^^ and there is still the paper size limit XD

it's funny how we are already thinking about nerfing a skill that doesnt exist yet

[Bart 954]

How about something similar to the map dump then, so its not centred on you, just a hand drawn world map where you can annotate towers (by name) nearby deeds etc, without all the alt tabbing, but can only see where you've been and drawn, you can still get lost and have fun, but still find your way home

[Miretta 1,415]

actually it would be funny too if you could draw the map yourself ingame or something similar would be funny to have treasure maps^^

[Keenan 5,539]

The first step would be some research into how the cartographers of old practiced their skill. It would almost have to be allowable while on a boat, though I'd have to say only as a passenger on a boat. The height notion is the right path, which would make a boat with a crow's nest the ideal place for a cartographer.

Thinking in the realm of skill progression, I think we're actually looking at two skills. Surveying and Cartography. Surveying would ultimately be the distance you can accurately observe and how accurate your measurement approximations are. Cartography would be your ability to accurately put your observations down on paper. I say this, because one wouldn't need high surveying if they only planned on making a map of their village for guests. Cartography would also be the skill you'd use when it came time to make copies of your maps.

So, thinking about all this map stuff... An in-game map to view would be nice, but what if there was a skill and set of tools you could use to actually pin-point your location on said map? It would rely on the quality of the map (Cartographer's skills, paper quality) and your skill in reading maps (Navigation?). That's the only time I'd say a "pointer" should be on a map is if the player has the skill to work out their location. Again, the accuracy would depend on skill, the map, etc.

But I think we're just getting more and more complicated.

[Tekari 133]

I like the idea of hand-drawn maps and trading them. And having to travel to all the places to put them on the map is cool too.

About the mechanics I'd suggest to make the detail of the map depending on skill rather than how far you can map.

With a low skill your drawing skills are just too bad to put a lot of details in but the higher your skill gets your lines and

handwriting becomes finer and more delicate.

So, +1. Again... I think