Even More Oil Denerfing

[Guest Docterchese]

I'm not even going to bother writing an essay... I object strongly to this change. A power company doesn't say overnight that its going to stop giving you electricity and make you buy bicycles to generate it with instead... that analogy fits what's happened here: something essential (light) has been taken from us, even though we paid for it.

[Amber 337]

Wow! I'm shocked at the acceptance of this whole thing. "It sucks but not as bad as you first purposed so now I'm happy." Rolf's "compromise" here doesn't change the facts one iota.

Olives trees are unsightly & planted in mass tend to block passage between them.

Few ppl have enough of them deeded to fuel their lamps.

Even fewer ppl are willing to enlarge their deeds, or give up otherwise valuable space, to add an olive grove. (Prepare to see undeeded olive groves fenced all over the maps.)

Olive season is short & players have real lives to live. Forcing us to rely on something that is seasonal for light is just wrong.

Lamps staying lit on deed was never a bug but rather a negotiated perk for deed owners.

There are many alternate possiblities for making olive oil useful.

Noobs don't come into the game with lanterns. I fail to see how being ported into a dark world - there will be no lights around the spawn areas now - is going to help keep new players in the game.

You've just reduced or removed one of the most astetically pleasing aspects of the game for alot of ppl.

This IS going to throw the aggro spawn rate out of balance again because Wurmians are nothing if not good at finding ways to live with the constant nerfs. Players are already penning up light giving creatures to use instead of lamps.

Whether or not this new "improvement" requires a ST is still unknown but if it does the raging & leaving has only just begun.

Asking for something to be more realistic in a game that has spiders the size of volkswagons, trolls, dragons, & unicorns is just plain stupid. If it's realism your are after I think you've stumbled into the wrong game so go play a sim and let the rest of us enjoy our sandbox.

If you think your dark deed is bad you should really get off it for a bit and see how dark & gloomy the rest of the server looks without lamps at night. This is a sad day for alot of us for whom the visual aspects of Wurm are half the fun.

It's an even sadder day for those of who realize that as long as such needless changes are shrugged off by the community there is no limit on how bad the next one will be.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If that doesn't scare you then you just haven't been around here long enough.

[Brigander 22]

Just want to say the last 6 or so "updates" we've gotten have been rather pointless and undesired. Rolf you really should be listening to your playerbase on these things. You've already lost at least one customer from the string of pointless bullpocky you've put out in the last month.

[Miretta 1,415]

I have to admit, that I agree with those posts above me....even if you made a compromise NOW, there are alot of changes lately, that are mainly making the game more "difficult", but not fun for everyone.

I'm not sure if we should start complaining about fence bashing trolls and collapsing caves again....

it was an actual good idea for pretending people caging up too many hostile animals (its bad for animal server population), but it was a bad idea for those who just had "some" animals to life for...and I know some who left the game, cause they had lost one of the most important aspects in game....for someone wanting more thrill ingame? I can remember some suggestions about it.....so maybe another one: why can animals bash IN fences? if it's just about reducing people hoarding animals, then it should be only possible for animals inside, because why would a troll want to go inside a "walled" area?

then the caves....alot of people complained about it, cause those mining shafts are destroying peoples hard work! and aslong as we don't have a way to repair or maintain it, it will still happen and destroy plans people made and make those caves non usable (partly) it would've been a good idea to fix those dropshafts or is it intended to be unpassable?

oh...I can see the storm lolz

wondering how much people could say who are ingame since 4 years

[York 16]

He added something, he got feedback, many many people suggested that lamps should burn longer, many people suggested that oil weight should be increased in some form. He listened, he implemented a change that is a good compromise, he wanted oil to be vaulable, yet the only suggestions ive seen so far is adding them in cooking, everyone eats meat + 1 veg.

Another thread another round of complaints, I said this in the last thread, it doesnt matter what Rolf does there are a few here that will never be happy about anything, its astonishing the sheer amount of complaining, this isnt constructive feedback, its once again 'threats to leave, doom and gloom, wurm is going down the pan and rolf is determined to destroy his own creation, and drive everyone away until there isnt anyone left playing'. Rince repeat for the next dev blog.

If this change is so bad, if the previous changes are destroying the game, if your no longer having fun and can only point out all the flaw and none of the benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you hate the game.

If you hate the game, why do you play?

[Keldun 335]

If you pay attention you might notice that a lot of these people state that they actually don't play the game anymore, because they hate it.

They are mainly still raging because they once loved the game but Rolf made them hate it.

It actually seems a common thing for developers of in developement games to piss of their player base. Some of them have survived by aquiring a different player base, others simply died. In some exceptional cases these new player bases are way bigger then the old one, that's why some developers actually try to induce those switches, rarely works as intended.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Keldun

[Farmerbob 369]

Rolf, thank you for at least making an awful decision less painful, however I still think you should revert, rethink, and implement something else that creates a new use for olive oil that enhances creative gameplay rather than creating more maintenance drudgery.

Please.

[KaiH 1,126]

If you hate the game, why do you play?

Good point.

Even though i don't really like the change for lamps, i still love Wurm.

A true 'Wurmian' will adapt and keep going, maybe circumventing things s/he doesn't like, but still play.

[Farmerbob 369]

He added something, he got feedback, many many people suggested that lamps should burn longer, many people suggested that oil weight should be increased in some form. He listened, he implemented a change that is a good compromise, he wanted oil to be vaulable, yet the only suggestions ive seen so far is adding them in cooking, everyone eats meat + 1 veg.

Another thread another round of complaints, I said this in the last thread, it doesnt matter what Rolf does there are a few here that will never be happy about anything, its astonishing the sheer amount of complaining, this isnt constructive feedback, its once again 'threats to leave, doom and gloom, wurm is going down the pan and rolf is determined to destroy his own creation, and drive everyone away until there isnt anyone left playing'. Rince repeat for the next dev blog.

If this change is so bad, if the previous changes are destroying the game, if your no longer having fun and can only point out all the flaw and none of the benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you hate the game.

If you hate the game, why do you play?

For a large number of us, Wurm is a love/hate relationship.

We love the freedom of play and the ability to affect the world.

We hate the way that Rolf seems to randomly make changes by throwing darts when blindfolded, then seeing how the players react. He's either not getting any advice at all, or he's getting advice from a limited number of people who apparently get enjoyment from convincing Rolf to make changes that make him look ignorant and out of touch.

This is one of the reasons that I am an off-and-on player. Sometimes it's something new and shiny that draws me off to play another game for a while, but more often than not, it's simply me getting irritated with game changes that make no sense whatsoever.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Nobody is "forced" to maintain hundreds of lamps.

Lamps are convenient to have instead of lanterns but aren't vital to gameplay when you consider that all we used to have was lanterns, it's more of a convenience item for the players willing to put in extra effort to make their deed pretty and eliminate the need to carry a lantern around towns. It's not intolerable to require luxury items to require a certain degree of maintenance. I know some people have grown comfortable with having hundreds of non-maintenance lamps automagically light up all off- and on-deed areas without, but those people will have to change their standards, rather than feeling puhished/"forced". Everybody needs to change their standards every once in a while when big changes comes around such as boats, fighting changes, deed system overhauls, livestock balancing etc etc. I'd have thought most players were used to this by now.

Edited June 26, 2012 by EliasTheCrimson

[Guest Docterchese]

Nobody is "forced" to maintain hundreds of lamps.

Likewise, nobody is forced to play Wurm and nobody is forced to play a game that's totally dark...

I'm so annoyed by this change. I do not wish to be branded as "another one of the intolerant complainers" - this change affects ME directly and so I should have a right to say that I don't like it. The only compromise I'd be happy with would be refined tar - yet the fact that the community has to push and pull at devs is a pain, game changes should be 99% balanced on the day that they come out.

[Asciana 303]

You do know you now only have to put tar in your lamps every 12-20 days now, right? Tar is still useable.

[ReaverKane 363]

I have to admit, that I agree with those posts above me....even if you made a compromise NOW, there are alot of changes lately, that are mainly making the game more "difficult", but not fun for everyone.

I'm not sure if we should start complaining about fence bashing trolls and collapsing caves again....

it was an actual good idea for pretending people caging up too many hostile animals (its bad for animal server population), but it was a bad idea for those who just had "some" animals to life for...and I know some who left the game, cause they had lost one of the most important aspects in game....for someone wanting more thrill ingame? I can remember some suggestions about it.....so maybe another one: why can animals bash IN fences? if it's just about reducing people hoarding animals, then it should be only possible for animals inside, because why would a troll want to go inside a "walled" area?

then the caves....alot of people complained about it, cause those mining shafts are destroying peoples hard work! and aslong as we don't have a way to repair or maintain it, it will still happen and destroy plans people made and make those caves non usable (partly) it would've been a good idea to fix those dropshafts or is it intended to be unpassable?

oh...I can see the storm lolz

wondering how much people could say who are ingame since 4 years

They can't make it so that trolls don't bash when outside fences cause the game doesn't really know where is in or where is out.

Dropshafts are a side-effect from the single layer, all in one underground.

2 years and counting, but with a hiatus after some other patches. This patch has already made me lose some of the will to play wurm, just from the thought that Rolf still has the buisness insight of a dead fly, and keeps trolling his playerbase.

He added something, he got feedback, many many people suggested that lamps should burn longer, many people suggested that oil weight should be increased in some form. He listened, he implemented a change that is a good compromise, he wanted oil to be vaulable, yet the only suggestions ive seen so far is adding them in cooking, everyone eats meat + 1 veg.

Another thread another round of complaints, I said this in the last thread, it doesnt matter what Rolf does there are a few here that will never be happy about anything, its astonishing the sheer amount of complaining, this isnt constructive feedback, its once again 'threats to leave, doom and gloom, wurm is going down the pan and rolf is determined to destroy his own creation, and drive everyone away until there isnt anyone left playing'. Rince repeat for the next dev blog.

If this change is so bad, if the previous changes are destroying the game, if your no longer having fun and can only point out all the flaw and none of the benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you hate the game.

If you hate the game, why do you play?

We don't hate the game, we hate where its going. And its because we love the game we don't want to see it go down the drain. Someone has already made a joke about what can happen to Wurm. Or do you think that antagonizing the majority of the players will keep money flowing?

Nobody is "forced" to maintain hundreds of lamps.

Lamps are convenient to have instead of lanterns but aren't vital to gameplay when you consider that all we used to have was lanterns, it's more of a convenience item for the players willing to put in extra effort to make their deed pretty and eliminate the need to carry a lantern around towns. It's not intolerable to require luxury items to require a certain degree of maintenance. I know some people have grown comfortable with having hundreds of non-maintenance lamps automagically light up all off- and on-deed areas without, but those people will have to change their standards, rather than feeling puhished/"forced". Everybody needs to change their standards every once in a while when big changes comes around such as boats, fighting changes, deed system overhauls, livestock balancing etc etc. I'd have thought most players were used to this by now.

I Agree! But we shouldn't change the standards when the standards don't benefit crap. Hell, Bin Laden used to work for the CIA, then he changed standards...

You do know you now only have to put tar in your lamps every 12-20 days now, right? Tar is still useable.

Still usable but only if hand-fueled. I'm not paying 4 silver in upkeep to hand fuel my lamps.

Edited June 26, 2012 by ReaverKane

[Moxie 271]

I thought the initial lamp nerf made no sense, and I still stand by that. There was no good reason for these unneeded changes to lamps to be made when there are real issues that have a far greater impact on gameplay that still need to be addressed.

However, I am happy with the new changes to the amount of oil that will be made from one olive, and that lamps will now burn 4 times longer. Sure, I'll still have to hand-fuel them periodically, but I can deal with that. Part of life is learning to compromise and adapting to those compromises - we rarely ever get exactly what we want, in life, on the job, or in any sort of dealings with people. If I recall correctly, several people suggested that lamps burn longer and/or that olive oil amounts be increased, and he's done exactly that.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Moxie

[Kadore 926]

Ok, so pretty much, one olive harvest will run one lamp for a month. Much better. Olives have a use and I don't see it being cumbersome for people running lamps within reason. If you have 200 lamps...well...yeah. Much better than before, thanks Rolf.

I see this as being reasonable at least, the same with the animal nerfs. 200 animals in a 5x5 area etc, that kind of thing was getting out of control. I think all of this stuff is getting reigned in to be reasonable now.

Perhaps one thing that could be done, however, is make lamps unlimited on 'heritage sites' like canals etc, as denoted by the GM staff. That would be a reward for the amazing works being completed and benefitting the public. Coding wise Rolf could do it as a GM only spell or somesuch that puts a permanent illumination on them, or somesuch.

Not sure I understand this part as it applies to lamps, I do to a point on animals, but you're saying people were abusing free light and it needed reigning in.

GM run deeds as well as historical sites should recieve no free pass, as I'm aware they were not protected from Trolls bashing or cave bugs tunneling, why give new players the illusion they can have multiple free lamps if they cannot? The people that say its " so easy " should do the lamplighting, if they need paid use all the money GM's have recieved from Boat Salvages to pay the costs.

[Ols 306]

Rolf, as a strong supporter of this change I beg you not to walk down a path of compromise that inevitably leads to this change being reverted. People are resistant to change, and I think it's critical that as a developer you can force sensible and rational changes through to improve the realism of Wurm Online. I continue to fill my lamps with tar because I don't have an excessive number of them, and I feel that anyone who does simply needs to acknowledge the logical difficulties that such a situation should entail.

[Pashka 707]

I don't care for having to 'refine' tar to use it in lamps. I can use tar as it is and get it at a high quality to use it on my boats based on digging ability. I'd rather not have to raise yet another skill in order to have something usable for boat building, lamp lighting and whatever else the tar process was supposed to do that is already in place.

I dislike the oil having to be in a barrel for the lamps to be lit. I pay for deeds and as part of that upkeep the 'guards' have always kept my houses up, my walls intact and my lamps lit. I wanted that to continue. I understand that some folks thought this was a 'bug' for some unknown reason. I'm wondering if they will think my walls being kept up and my houses being kept in tip top shape is also a bug. Guess that is for another update though. See you then.

[Aldur 652]

I have planted about 80+ lamps on the new highways, roads and in mines in my area. What am I supposed to do now? I did it with assumption I'll refil and repair them once in a long while, now I have to farm 30kg of olive oil every month?

I usually don't mind changes, even if they mess up completely my plans, even if they end up wasting days of my playtime... but with this change, I simply don't see the point!

Olives not useful? Tons of items are not useful, besides who cares if an item is useful, players care if they get a new feature with new item... this doesn't add any new feature, just redesigns how you get lamps lit and maintained, while adding problems like mine above.

Or maybe is it some idea to nerf light itself? Yeah because it stops hostile spawns... oh wait wrong game.

[Miretta 1,415]

If this change is so bad, if the previous changes are destroying the game, if your no longer having fun and can only point out all the flaw and none of the benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you hate the game.

If you hate the game, why do you play?

or we are interested in having a good game

actually there is not really a good sandbox game out there like wurm I even think it's the only REAL attempt on making a sandbox...thats tbh a big praise on rolf that he is one of those who startet it and the one who didnt give up when notch left...

I think people are complaining that much, cause they dont want a new alternative game somewhere, with other bugs....they want their favourite and by far best sandbox game to be the best of the best XD do you know what I mean? so the expectations of what people want is high and the freedom, a sandbox could give is defended alot!

and thats also the same reason why people start to be happy about it when rolf atleast makes little compromises to his evil mind plans cause there is no alternative....

[Ecrir 887]

olive season is still way to short for this, please think of the casual players and either extend that season (minimum duration of one RL week for people who can only play on 1-2 set days) or make them always harvestable with a cooldown on the trees. The first would probably make more sense than the latter

[scottfree 32]

Rolf, as a strong supporter of this change I beg you not to walk down a path of compromise that inevitably leads to this change being reverted. People are resistant to change, and I think it's critical that as a developer you can force sensible and rational changes through to improve the realism of Wurm Online. I continue to fill my lamps with tar because I don't have an excessive number of them, and I feel that anyone who does simply needs to acknowledge the logical difficulties that such a situation should entail.

Ok, ive seen several posts from you along these lines ...

Please enlighten us (if you'll pardon the pun), how exactly does the change to lamps make sense and who exactly benefits from it?

[whykillme 1,621]

cough

No, it should be reverted back to the way it was. (158 votes [77.45%])

cough

[Ols 306]

Ok, ive seen several posts from you along these lines ...

Please enlighten us (if you'll pardon the pun), how exactly does the change to lamps make sense and who exactly benefits from it?

Fuel is not an infinite resource in real life. Nobody benefits from it - it's a realism change.

[Amber 337]

He added something, he got feedback, many many people suggested that lamps should burn longer, many people suggested that oil weight should be increased in some form. He listened, he implemented a change that is a good compromise, he wanted oil to be vaulable, yet the only suggestions ive seen so far is adding them in cooking, everyone eats meat + 1 veg.

Another thread another round of complaints, I said this in the last thread, it doesnt matter what Rolf does there are a few here that will never be happy about anything, its astonishing the sheer amount of complaining, this isnt constructive feedback, its once again 'threats to leave, doom and gloom, wurm is going down the pan and rolf is determined to destroy his own creation, and drive everyone away until there isnt anyone left playing'. Rince repeat for the next dev blog.

If this change is so bad, if the previous changes are destroying the game, if your no longer having fun and can only point out all the flaw and none of the benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you hate the game.

If you hate the game, why do you play?

Frankly I think this is the pot calling the kettle black. You, and a couple of others here, seem to be so dissatisfied with the way the game is now that you agree with EVERY change Rolf makes reguardless of how stupid or unpopular it it. Then you troll, insult, & generally try to brow beat those who disagree with you into shutting up and going away.

I'd suggest that it's YOU who hates the game and who should consider finding a new one to play.

[picommander 13]

Now we start bashing troll clubs at each other?