Poll: Do You Agree With The New Lamp Change?

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Just thought I'd start this poll to get real numbers on how many agree or disagree with the latest change. Going to keep this simple and ask for a yes or no, other suggestions can be made in several other threads.

[Uberknot 327]

Yes it needed to be done and will be worked out.

[Wraithglow 787]

I think the response in the other threads made general attitudes quite clear, and I don't see how such a polarised poll can help matters. For example I think its a good step to have templars fill lamps from a barrel, but I think it's a shame that barrel cannot be filled with tar, or some other solution as mentioned in the many threads. I also think it needs to be more though-out how mines and public tunnels etc are going to be affected by the change, and ways to deal with this.

Essentially: my view is (as is often the case) rolf has rushed out something that just sprang to mind, without really considering the full implications. It's the kind of thing where if there were two or more people in the decision, one would have said "yeah it's an interesting concept, but have you thought about these 100 factors?"

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

When I first read about the lamps, I was REALLY REALLY REALLY unhappy. I thought this was a terrible, awful, completely stupid change.

Anyway I started carrying around a lump of tar with me on my regular deed inspections, and after a short time I decided hitting "refill" on the lamps was not nearly as time consuming and frustrating as I had expected it to be. Its one of the things I do on my periodic rounds checking on the deed. I don't need to fully refiill the lamps once it becomes part of my regular routine, so I am not lugging as much tar as I thought I would need, and I have only found a small number that actually go out because I missed them on my normal rounds. I imagine if I had started the game where lamp-filling was the norm, I would think nothing of it. I imagine the players most frustrated would be the real longterm veterans who were around when "perma-lights" first went in, and were promised as a normal "perk" of owning a deed. The rest of us I think will adapt faster than we realize. I would like to see the time extended to double, however. At least on-deed.

Anyway -- I would have voted "NO! Hell No!!" a few days ago but now I am ok with it. Just extend the time, perhaps based on the quality of olive oil or tar of lamp. And I REALLY like the idea of using animal fat somehow; maybe boil it down to a concentrated form, I have no idea why this isn;t already in.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Brash_Endeavors

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I think the response in the other threads made general attitudes quite clear, and I don't see how such a polarised poll can help matters. For example I think its a good step to have templars fill lamps from a barrel, but I think it's a shame that barrel cannot be filled with tar, or some other solution as mentioned in the many threads. I also think it needs to be more though-out how mines and public tunnels etc are going to be affected by the change, and ways to deal with this.

Essentially: my view is (as is often the case) rolf has rushed out something that just sprang to mind, without really considering the full implications. It's the kind of thing where if there were two or more people in the decision, one would have said "yeah it's an interesting concept, but have you thought about these 100 factors?"

I started this poll because while there are quite a few of us who are very vocal about the issue, it was hard to get a feel for real numbers. I want to see (and hope Rolf may take a look) just how popular or unpopular this really is with the population as a whole.

[Uberknot 327]

I started this poll because while there are quite a few of us who are very vocal about the issue, it was hard to get a feel for real numbers. I want to see (and hope Rolf may take a look) just how popular or unpopular this really is with the population as a whole.

LOL he already knows.....

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

LOL he already knows.....

Does not mean I have to be quiet about it.

[Xiled 11]

I think it's fine and more realistic. Though, we could all argue what "more" realistic is, I think its a step in the right direction. I'll just add it to the prune trees/repair walls list. Pick em, make olive oil, put it in the barrel, and the guards fill the lamps. Just gotta keep the barrels full and that doesn't seem to bad, especially comparing it to repairing walls. I think the changes to harvesting Olives is a big help as well and I agree with Brash about the time extended on deed though considering the amount of olive oil that would be required.

On a side note, I guess this explains why Olives have always been in season 2 times a wurm year vs 1. Now to figure out why Rose and Lavender are =)

[York 16]

Hopefully there will be another update next week, going by what happened when Celebration came out a new round of complaints can begin while we all forget about lamps.

[Kegan 3,926]

I don't think it needs changed but it does need fixed. If you give the olive oil more bulk by adding animal fat and cooking it into "lamp Oil" that will add more bulk so you can make a large tub last till the next olive season.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Kegan

[Stargrace 602]

With only two answers available for the poll, yes, or no, I'm not going to bother voting, but like others above me have already stated - it's not exactly a bad thing, just needs some tweaking, which has been realized by Rolf (ie: his dev post about olives). Keep in mind that in Wurm, NOTHING is set in stone and is this has only been live for a very short time, right before a weekend, in summer, I'd expect things to keep changing.

[Kadore 926]

As one issue its not a huge deal, but when add up things you must do it does impact the amount of things you need to do to maintain things on and off deed.

The people that want more realism and play wurm as a simulation are more than welcome to walk by every lamp on thier deed with a barrel full of olive oil and pause 40 seconds to simulate filling them, I don't understand the need to bring the rest of the playerbase that doesn't want to do the same along for the ride.

The more things you add to the game that must be done constantly to keep things up that have been fine prior to changes, the more the game caters to folks that have obsessive amounts of time to play. I'm not sure if the ultimate goal is to create more markets for players looking to earn coin by being Lamplighters, Olive Farmers, Chimney Sweeps, Hairstylists or who knows what else.

[Blacklotus 276]

Rolf generally makes decisions like this without really consulting us, and eventually the kinks will be worked out either by outrage by the community or simply because it's the right direction for wurm.

[Banzai 664]

I am against this lamp refill change. Though Wurm is a "realism" game, it doesn't need to be this realistic. This (in my opinion) is like making walls, buildings etc decay on deed. Forever lasting lamps should be a benefit of a deed just like no decay on buildings/walls. The strive for this type of realism may make the game more and more annoying.

But this opinion may change if all I need to do is leave a barrel of oil on deed. If I need to hire guards, I am strongly against this lamp change.

[Shalbriri 698]

I fail to see what problem this change is attempting to fix, tbh.

The method we had worked just fine, was by no means game breaking, and made life generally easier.

We already have enough things to do on a regular basis in Wurm Online, this is now one more menial task to do. Menial tasks create routine behavior, and routine behavior causes boredom and burnout, IMHO.

Just my 2 bits.

[MrGARY 12,421]

I fail to see what problem this change is attempting to fix, tbh.

The method we had worked just fine, was by no means game breaking, and made life generally easier.

We already have enough things to do on a regular basis in Wurm Online, this is now one more menial task to do. Menial tasks create routine behavior, and routine behavior causes boredom and burnout, IMHO.

Just my 2 bits.

Agreed.

[FlyinBreakfast 1]

good fix in my oppinion....aslong Rolf boosts olive yeald not only by 1 more and when we get Oracels idea implemented

Oracels post>

Process raw tar.

Raw tar needs processing in a " Tar Processing unit " ( new ) to be of any use. Tar processing unit ( similar to a forge but smaller and without a chimney, needs a couldron in construction ) is fueled by burning 20kg wood for cooking the raw tar into the following products

From each 1kg of tar processed you get .50 tar pitch ( for ship building ), .25 carbon black oxide ( ingrediant for making ink and black paint/dye ), and .25 tar oil ( for using as lamp oil and general oil paint base. This tar oil will replace water, and water based colors will only be used as a dye for wood, leather and cloth items ).

Also, mixing any dye on a 1 for 1 basis with clay makes a glaze that can be applied to clay items and fired resulting in a colored pottery item.

edit: and yea, deed lamps burning time should get a boost then

Edited June 22, 2012 by FlyinBreakfast

[darthryan 588]

I fail to see what problem this change is attempting to fix, tbh.

The method we had worked just fine, was by no means game breaking, and made life generally easier.

We already have enough things to do on a regular basis in Wurm Online, this is now one more menial task to do. Menial tasks create routine behavior, and routine behavior causes boredom and burnout, IMHO.

Just my 2 bits.

Agreed.

[Murazama 1]

I feel it was a step in the right direction in a theortical sense. Because of this, Rolf has implemented a realistic feature, something that is governed by an outside force, if you forget to fill the oil barrel, you get no lights.

Yes, tons of people will complain, even with massive villages, it can still be lit, manually, if need be, that is why you have villagers, put them lazy buggers to work. ;D

[Farmerbob 369]

I voted no.

Sandbox games are about creation. Not about maintenance. That being said, some maintenance is fine because it adds a taste of realism that we can identify with.

It should not take any significant part of your time to simply maintain, because then you quickly get to the point where you can only maintain, and not create - at which point you stop playing.

[Satch 41]

I feel it was a step in the right direction in a theortical sense. Because of this, Rolf has implemented a realistic feature, something that is governed by an outside force, if you forget to fill the oil barrel, you get no lights.

Yes, tons of people will complain, even with massive villages, it can still be lit, manually, if need be, that is why you have villagers, put them lazy buggers to work. ;D

I think that's just it though, people are already hard at work building walls, fences, houses, ships, digging, mining, tailoring, cooking, smithing, animal breeding, i.e constructive actions. Now time is taken away from those things to perform a maintenance action. We play, and pay, to be constructive, not to have to worry about actions that add no value to our deeds or to our characters.

[sneakey pete 2]

If it adds no value, then why do you want lighting?

A lot of people seem to be saying "going around to all our lamps on deed will take too long", or something to the similar tune.

That is why rolf added the olive barrel at the same time. If you have one on your deed, and have olive oil in it, then on deed lamps will be automatically filled. You won't ever have to go around mantually filling lamps on deed. That changes it from a menial maintenance task to occasional one off resource collection, to me.

Edited June 22, 2012 by sneakey pete

[Redd 4,281]

now you know what no pvp on chaos is like for us!

[Farmerbob 369]

If it adds no value, then why do you want lighting?

A lot of people seem to be saying "going around to all our lamps on deed will take too long", or something to the similar tune.

That is why rolf added the olive barrel at the same time. If you have one on your deed, and have olive oil in it, then on deed lamps will be automatically filled. You won't ever have to go around mantually filling lamps on deed. That changes it from a menial maintenance task to occasional one off resource collection, to me.

Have you ever actually made olive oil?

Collecting the olives is only half the work.

Then there are the offdeed lamps used in tunnels.

Then there's the simple fact that feeding your lamps is maintenance, not creation.

Sandbox games are about creation (or destruction I suppose) but not about maintenance.

I'll say again.

1) I have a Fo priest alt that can cast Wild Growth.

2) I have decent forestry and a 70+ QL sickle and a 80QL fruit press

3) I have a grand total of two lamps on my deed, and don't carry a lantern

4) I have two barrels of olive oil on hand right now

With all of that, I'm positioned pretty well for this change. But I still think it's a bad idea. It might be MADE into a good idea with some additional changes, but as it is, it's simply more maintenance eating into people's creation time.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Farmerbob

[Amber 337]

It seems to me that some ppl are for this change simply because they want some new skills involving the refining of tar or some use for animal fat. I'd be for something like that to if it was NOT tied to adding a senseless chore to the game. Two seperate issues being mixed into one IMO & it only confuses things.