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Ayes

The Lights Are Going Out!

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Yep! Are you distracted yet? Forgot all about those pesky multistory buildings we've been promised? Don't stress. Rolf said he's working on them just like he said that lamps would never need refilling......

Where exactly did he say lamps would never need refilling? I mean if you're going to say something at least back it up!! ;)

Edited by Uberknot

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people seem mad about their lights

sucks you can't run lamps for a year off of one tar right guys

seriously suck it up, i remember when i didn't have a deed and had this small area where i'd go by every day refilling the lamps with tar because i liked it that way

it's a meager activate and fill for each one, once every few days

it's not a big chore, and for anyone with those ridiculously sized deeds, 1s shouldn't be much to top onto your deed if you can already afford this.

i'm just happy olive juice has a use at least.

though i wouldn't mind that tar suggestion to make it into 3 other items

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Seems that olive harvests have been increased - do we know to what? If we could maintain a reasonably large number of lamps with a reasonably small cluster of trees that wouldn't be so bad

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I'm strongly opposed to this change as I feel this is contrary to Rolfs own desire to "reduce the grind" as seen in his blog.

Rolf himself has commented on how nice wurm can look at night with a good number of lamps illuminating the landscape, yet this change is going to significantly reduce this aspect of wurm.

Its going to require more effort than many will put in, and contributes nothing to enjoyment of the game.

I would also like to point out that this impacts on community projects

For example, Kinoss canal is 286 tiles long and contains 76 lamps, approx 65 of which are offdeed.

Its unreasonable to expect players to be so community minded that they are going to fill all these lamps every few days, and im sure gms have plenty to do without spending even more time than they already do rescuing stranded ships from unlit canals.

Seriously Rolf plse think again on this one.

Edited by scottfree
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reduce the grind? nope....gotta grind beverages now LOL....

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I am considering returning to Wurm as a f2p and only do one thing every day: Cut down olive trees.

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people seem mad about their lights

sucks you can't run lamps for a year off of one tar right guys

seriously suck it up, i remember when i didn't have a deed and had this small area where i'd go by every day refilling the lamps with tar because i liked it that way

it's a meager activate and fill for each one, once every few days

it's not a big chore, and for anyone with those ridiculously sized deeds, 1s shouldn't be much to top onto your deed if you can already afford this.

i'm just happy olive juice has a use at least.

though i wouldn't mind that tar suggestion to make it into 3 other items

Yeah.. your little area.. probably only had one or two lamps - not really a big deal. Secondly it's not just a case of paying 1s.. you have to harvest and produce loads of oil for those 'automated' lamps.

The main problem I have is that it still doesn't really give olives a use - other than to allow automation. Tar is still far easier to obtain and use. Olive oil needs a serious buff to lit lamp duration to make it worthwhile - not just in harvest yield.

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One less reason to deed an area really. Shouldn't there be more incentives to deed up rather than just live on an enclosure?

Set a barrel of tar as the fuel for guards and maybe you could maybe pass it off as acceptable. Honestly are these sort of changes just used as distractions when something that is supposed to be being worked on isn't coming along well? Celebration's still waiting on a map; Chaos is still waiting on PvP and the whole world is still waiting on multi-storey (more accurately, two-storey) buildings. No to mention the recent bout of client/java crashes.

You put out a cool new server and raked in a bunch of players Rolf, don't start mucking about with things that work just fine.

[/rant]

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won't write too much but i don't like it. i will not spend hours of hours to harvest oil because i have no time for this.

As i've seen today in the kchat (97 Players online) only one seems to like the new system. That's what i called customersupport .... not ! ^_^

Edited by noermel

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One less reason to deed an area really. Shouldn't there be more incentives to deed up rather than just live on an enclosure?

Set a barrel of tar as the fuel for guards and maybe you could maybe pass it off as acceptable. Honestly are these sort of changes just used as distractions when something that is supposed to be being worked on isn't coming along well? Celebration's still waiting on a map; Chaos is still waiting on PvP and the whole world is still waiting on multi-storey (more accurately, two-storey) buildings. No to mention the recent bout of client/java crashes.

You put out a cool new server and raked in a bunch of players Rolf, don't start mucking about with things that work just fine.

[/rant]

That is exactly what this is, a distraction for us to keep us from bothering him about the promised changes. I for one will not fall for it, let the lamps go dark. I have my lanterns and really don't need more. I'm willing to fill it every day, but not every light ondeed. That's part of why I bought a deed. There are olives ondeed, let the guards harvest the olives themselves and make oil. I always considered it that way. Repairs go on without having to supply wood or stone, I assumed the guards collected that themselves for repairs.

We don't need more realism in the game, and I can think of a lot of things that are way off reality. As just one example, fighting non aggro creatures such as a deer. We should never be able to just walk up on one, and should never be able to bash and cut it to death. It should run long before we get to it, and the best way to hunt them (with what we have) would be by bow. The same goes for many creatures. But no one has ever complained about it, and if he did make that change a lot more of you would be against it.

To all of you that say this is ok, I'd like to know you opinion in about 2 months, after you've had lamps go dark and you find yourself spending days just collecting olives and making oil. Remember, you will not just do it once in a while, you will need to be doing it EVERY harvest. That's going to get old very fast and start taking up time you wanted to spend on important things.

And what about the noob? Can't get his guards to fill the lamps because he has no sickle, no forestry skill, and no beverage skill to press for oil. Rolf wants more to pay to play, but actions like this will only serve to keep people from playing. It has to have some fun to it or no new player will stay. This is just 1 more boring chore necessary to keep a village looking nice.

As I said before, this is a change, but it is definitely not an improvement to the game. Rolf should only add things that make the game more enjoyable, not more of a chore to do.

Edited by Vroomfondel
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But it is a game. A game where giant spiders dwell, and a host of other fantastic creatures. A game where magic exists. I'm all for realism to an extent, but not when it just makes for more drudge work. Even you know there are LOTS of bigger flaws in this game Rolf should be taking care of instead of this. It's a time waster which only serves to try and keep folks too busy to see the other gaping flaws in the game.

Yes, it is a game, and as I see it Wurm is also very much a simulation. If it wasn't at least half simulation there would be no justification or reason for 90% of what we we have to do in Wurm. Wurm is the best 'virtual reality/living world" MMO ever made im my opinion, and that is why I play it. If I wanted to play a game I would be playing something else, because imho there are many other MMOs that are better in the "game" department than Wurm.

And you are right on a second point... there are many other more important things IMHO that Rolf and the Devs need to fix/improve. We agree on that point.

As far as the never empty street lamps go though, I never did think that fit into Wurm where we have to be anal about a thousand other things that go *poof* if not maintained. Yes more work is never good (we got tons already),... however... as I see it... if Wurm is going to be mostly simulation, then let it be a full simulation and not some half-arsed hybrid. At least Rolf has bumped up Olive harvest yield to partially compensate, thanks Rolf.

This is just my opinion on this particular issue. I realize most people don't "see" Wurm as I do. I accept that. I don't ask everyone to agree with me. I only ask to be able to post my opinion about changes Rolf makes.... just like everyone else.

Edited by Kyrmius

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I am considering returning to Wurm as a f2p and only do one thing every day: Cut down olive trees.

OH my! I must be becoming very jaded in my opinions...But THIS gave me a good chuckle! :P I could never see myself doing it...hmmm...nah, nope, noway lol...but to be honest they are so prolific that is exactly what I have done on numerous occasions. Just not for that reason is all ;)

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Just to clarify a few points of which any are welcome to correct me if I am wrong. First, these auto-filling olive oil barrels will only function for street lamps planted on deeds. The main "benifit" of them is that you can store large quantities of oilve oil within them which the deed guard (Spirit Templar) will "magically" (?) use to refill all street lamps planted on deed tiles which will be depleted at the standard set rate (3-5 days proposed) per each street lamp planted on deed. So even with this auto-filling oilve oil barrel on deed it will still use the standard amount of oil per street lamp, meaning the more street lamps you have planted on deed, the more oilve oil you will use up by using this "convienent" auto-filling oil barrel system.

Rolf has never made it clear if a deed guard (Spirit Templar) will be required to enable this auto-filling oil barrel system to function or if his using the term "guards" is just a symbolic reference to the functioning of deed mechanisms; so as of this point I have no clear insight as to what will be required in this respect. Also, under this new proposed system to make oilve oil more "benificial" to players, tar will still be able to be used to manually fill street lamps both on and off deed, which will cause the street lamps to run out of fuel at the standard rate.

Of course the use of tar in its current state could be changed at any time for our "benifit", as Rolf stated in his post that it was never intended to be used for fueling lamps anyway. Oracle has suggested that tar should have to be refined in some way in order to be used to fuel lamps, which would of course require further work and perhaps skill/failures on our part to refine it to a useable state. Yet to be instituted or determined but as I see it this is the next threat to the more convienent and less time consuming fueling of our street lamps and carry lanterns. *shudders*

Beyond all this, under this new system of street lamps running out of fuel on this greatly accelerated basis, there is no way available to fuel off deed street lamps other than by individually monitoring each one at their different dispersed locations and refilling them each by hand with either oilve oil (or tar for now). I think not many players will be bothering with refilling lamps by hand at off deed locations under this "benificial" oilve oil system.

Upon reflecting further on this concept of an accelerated rate of all street lamps running out of fuel to enhance the use of oilve oil as the intended fuel for street lamps, both the logic and benificial effects of this change elude me, as the glaring negatives stated by previous posts would light up the night skys far beyond the snuffing out of the last lonely street lamp peering out into the darkness.

Time will tell but for now, only The Shadow knows.....

=Ayes=

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You're making a big deal over nothing. Sure the update isn't very refined, but the concept is good. Like I proposed, one should be able to fill an oil barrel with tar for a mitigated effect. Other than that, suck it up. One should not be able to run a large deed solo with no maintenance.

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I guess my biggest problem is that this was never considered a bug until Rolf called it a bug in this week's updates. When we requested that spirit guards light the lamps at night and turn them off at daylight, Rolf added the feature that they would auto-fill the lamps as they lit them. It was called a feature, not a bug. It has always been a part of the reason to buy a deed, so you did not have to do the maintenance of the lamps yourself. Just like the guards auto-maintain the buildings and fences, and we don't have to supply them materials for that. I've always assumed that the guards gather their own materials somehow. But with this change I wonder how much farther Rolf wants to go. Will we soon have to keep a supply of planks, bricks, logs, and stone around so the guards can do the other maintenance? I'm all for realism to a point, as long as it makes the game for enjoyable. Give me more work to do just to supply the guards with oil they used to collect themselves and I will protest. After all, I do pay the guards, they need to earn their pay.

Edited by Vroomfondel
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The main issue everyone has is with the difficulty of collecting and maintaining the olive oil levels for the numerous lamps we have on deed, right? Give us a way to make use of the more plentiful tar resource as we always have been able to in a similar fashion to the oil barrel. If the duration of a lamp lasted 2 weeks and could be filled with tar from a tar barrel, how many people would be more inclined to this "bugfix"?

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Got to love how all cave canals will go dark due to this. Crashy crashy boat time with boats getting stuck in walls and requiring GM intervention all over the place to get em out? :lol:

(note I haven't sailed a boat through a mine in at least a year, so I have no idea if boats can still end up that stuck by sailing it into the cave wall)

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I guess my biggest problem is that this was never considered a bug until Rolf called it a bug in this week's updates. When we requested that spirit guards light the lamps at night and turn them off at daylight, Rolf added the feature that they would auto-fill the lamps as they lit them. It was called a feature, not a bug. It has always been a part of the reason to buy a deed, so you did not have to do the maintenance of the lamps yourself. Just like the guards auto-maintain the buildings and fences, and we don't have to supply them materials for that. I've always assumed that the guards gather their own materials somehow. But with this change I wonder how much farther Rolf wants to go. Will we soon have to keep a supply of planks, bricks, logs, and stone around so the guards can do the other maintenance? I'm all for realism to a point, as long as it makes the game for enjoyable. Give me more work to do just to supply the guards with oil they used to collect themselves and I will protest. After all, I do pay the guards, they need to earn their pay.

there are several bugs about the forever lamps listed I found when searching different things about lamps. Seems people knew about it for awhile and used it knowing it was bugged. This all goes back to bugged lighting with lamps and some of the fixes that were done previously. It's been a problem for awhile and yeah it got fixed again.

http://forum.wurmonl..._+lamp +staying

Edited by Uberknot

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That is Jan 2012....Wikki was changed back in April 2010 to state that

  • When planted on a deed street lamps will need to be filled only once and will be automatically lit during night.
  • Off deed lamps will stay lit until out of fuel.

Far before the post on a "bug" which you provided the link to above.....Which btw is speaking of OFF DEED infinate lamps.......

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You're making a big deal over nothing. Sure the update isn't very refined, but the concept is good. Like I proposed, one should be able to fill an oil barrel with tar for a mitigated effect. Other than that, suck it up. One should not be able to run a large deed solo with no maintenance.

Yeah sure, suck it up. Until something that bothers YOU is changed, right.

A game feature that ran without complaint for what, two years, suddenly being removed is a valid concern.

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there are several bugs about the forever lamps listed I found when searching different things about lamps. Seems people knew about it for awhile and used it knowing it was bugged. This all goes back to bugged lighting with lamps and some of the fixes that were done previously. It's been a problem for awhile and yeah it got fixed again.

http://forum.wurmonl..._+lamp +staying

I fail to see how a thread about infinite lamps OFFDEED has anything to do with this discussion.

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I fail to see how a thread about infinite lamps OFFDEED has anything to do with this discussion.

...........Its part of the fix and hopefully the last lamp fix..... -_-...something tells there might be one more we'll see how the off deed lamp thing goes and if they finally burn out.

Edited by Uberknot

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Well I tend to always have a ton of olive oil as a byproduct of working on skill and compasses. So for me the update didnt make a huge impact one way or the other. Hopefully the oil barrel model will look better than huge tubs and maybe use a smaller footprint as I couldnt wait to bash all of mine when BSB's were added to Wurm. I would think something similar to this but larger would be a good model.

http://www.fotosearch.com/CSP238/k2385178/

Or same thing but standing up instead of on its side.

I can see how yet another required chore to play the game is no fun for some people as there are a one or two things that I am required to do in game that I had rather not. Also currently if I choose to skip a season it is my choice rather than having to do it. Human nature dictates that most people even if they are currently doing a thing tend to rebel when they are told they have to do that thing.

I think the biggest concern I actually have is truly are we soon going to have to supply other materials to maintain our deed as well and if hiring a guard will be required also. If so thats ok I will supply the materials for that also. I have high enough skills to do so fairly quickly but I can see how newer people it could take them a while. Where I would draw the line is if forced to hire a guard just to do this maintenance.

As currently the only perks to having a deed is having instant log off when sleeping in a bed, no decay on buildings and fences, and a guard if you so choose for paying extra for it. Oh and a mystery productivity bonus that everytime I ask someone exactly what it does have been givien a different answer. Since I have more than one deed I many times have my toons switched around

on the deeds so they have the 30 second wait anyhow.

I can make 80-90ql walls so I wouldnt have to spend much time on upkeeping them and with those skills the repairs go fast especially if you have several people in your community. I dont have a guard because thats my job ondeed but for those who need them a simple building of a tower and you now have 5 free guards at your command to use. I dont even include security as a perk to owning a deed as fences and writs can be used to do the same thing.

I guess Rolf at that point might want to up building and fence decay and revoking Freedom Code of Conduct and try and force people to keep deeds but that wont work as we all saw GV and how people were willing to live there even with an insane decay rate and no deeds.

So I guess the moral of the story is as the perks for paying for a deed go away so does the need for a deed.

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... But with this change I wonder how much farther Rolf wants to go. Will we soon have to keep a supply of planks, bricks, logs, and stone around so the guards can do the other maintenance? ...

Not only this. We should pay few coins for every kill templars did.

Nooooo, Rolf do not push game this way, if you do not plan massive reduction of population in Wurm.

You all swearing about olive oil and I understand why. I will not refill lamps, because I dislike when features magicaly turns to "bugs". Most of my places will turn to dark. It can be used in advertising, how nice dark places Wurm has :P

Few days ago I did about hundred screenshots, mostly in evening and morning time. 10 of them was good lighted by tons of my lamps. Rest was useless for common public, because too dark. Only veteran Wurminas can see what was there. Even more dark will be now, great.

I have different solution. I will use lamps to feed personal trader. Jewelry or lamps, who cares.

Everywhere I need light I can build fenced tile with Hell horse and enchanted grass. Horses do not need to fill with oil every 3-5 days :D And only drawback is that stupid fire sound. It can be used on deed same as off deed.

Bad thing, I can't place enchanted grass and fences in mines (personally I think it is bug, hehe :rolleyes: )

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