The Lights Are Going Out!

[Suntan 83]

If wurm mechanics are anything to go by, you probably don't need a guard at all just the barrel.

[Epic_Sojourner 8]

This is just a pain.

[Tich 1,389]

There is no way other that waiting for the correct season to get oil, where are Tar is always available, and can even be made on site using charcoal piles

After spending the last couple of years getting rid of the horrid view-blocking trees known as olive trees, i've no way to get oil at all near me, and no way do i want to

1. waste my time filling lamps, or

2. travel a long way just to harvest olive trees that you cant walk between.

Here is to the 'dark ages'

[RomaN 890]

I'm all for changes that make the game more interactive, engaging and life-like but tedious and menial chores like having to constantly harvest olive and refill street lamps just wastes time that can be spent on doing other things more enjoyable in the game.

Wurm can really do without this change. There are more important things to worry about.

Edited June 21, 2012 by RomaN

[Torgrim 403]

I don't like this update either, at least not in its current form. But some people really don't even read the patch notes. It clearly sais you can still use tar if you fill the lamps manually, so if you don't have a deed with guards you don't have to bother with oil so you can stop whining about that. Rolf also sais that he will adjust the number of days lamps stays lit on one fill, I guess it means less olives will be needed when this is fine tuned.

If this was indeed a feature implemented some years ago, clearly it should be put back in because it was then actually intended to work as it did. BUT one bug I think actually existed in that case because off deed lamps didn't need refilling anymore than ondeed lights even before patch. I have planted lamps along roads and only had to fill them once and they have been alight for months.

The following I'm not 100% certain of:

As I recall I have actually read in the wiki that this should not be the case, and I think it also said that lamps are maintained by your guards, so I guess that was intended at some point. No mention about having to use barrels of olive oils or any other fuel though.

So, that said. I still think it was better as it was when not working as intended. But maybe if you introduce some new type of fuel like animal fat this new update could work. Animal fat was used alot as fuel before we had fossil fuel. There are also other ways to get oil from plants etc. So if you make it easier to obtain oil then maybe this update could work. And up the number of days to 15-30.

[Gorwst 129]

Let's look at some actual numbers. Maybe the math will demonstrate how difficult this will make things.

Rolf says that lamps will have to be refilled every 3-5 days under this system. Let's figure an average of every 4 days for a refill.

The Wurm year is 45.6 days. That means 11.4 refills per Wurm year. According ot the wiki, t takes 0.20 kg of olive oil to fill a lamp, so you need 2.28 kg of oil per year per lamp.

You get 0.06 kg of oil per olive. You get two harvest of olives each Wurm year, so one tree produces 0.12 kg of oil per year.

This means you need 19 olive trees for every lamp you have on your deed. (That's NINETEEN.)

Even if you assume that since lamps on deed are not burning 2/3 of the time because it's daylight, you're still looking at 6.3 olive trees per lamp.

You will want at least 4 lamps to light up the default 11x11 deed. That's either 26 or 76 tiles of olive trees (21% or 62% of your total deeded tiles).

That's a heck of a lot of wasted tiles just to have light on your deed.

[Tich 1,389]

Why cant the guards harvest olives and fill the lamps, so i dont have to!

[Calimdor 60]

We have over 200 Lamps to fill (together on our 7 deeds), over 50 lamps are off-deed in tunnels between our deeds ... guess we have a problem now ...

[Klaa 4,872]

*cave lamps go out while mining underground*

Momma...!

[yetian 86]

My plan for an underground dock is now going to have to change to an unlit underground dock. Well I suppose I can light it and leave my overground deed lamps unlit, I can't spend the time needed to gather the olives for my deed lamps with the time I have to play wurm.

I'll be leaving all deed lamps unlit now apart from maybe the 4 I have on my overground dock.

*Edit*

Thinking about it, I'll leave my top tier (forest) which had nice green low level lamps on edges, unlit from now on.

House tier will be reduced to 1 lamp outside my house.

Dock tier from 5 to 2 lamps.

Underground dock from the planned approx 20 lamps (tunnel in and dock), to probably 5 leaving entrance tunnel unlit.

All of which I might have to fill myself when i'm about unless I decide 1s a month for an lamp filler (guard would have aggro turned off) is worth it to me.

Disclaimer : Anyone tripping or falling on deed does so because of their 2 left feet. Any complaints can be taken up with Rolf, Fippy's harbour is not responsible for you falling over in the dark on our well worked and totally flat paving.

Edited June 21, 2012 by yetian

[RomaN 890]

PETITION FOR FOREVER LIT LAMPS ON DEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kaloth 3]

I'll speak up against this recent change as well. Even though where I'm located is flooded with olive trees, the sheer volume of olives that would need to be harvested is beyond stupid so my lamps will sit dark as well. Manually walking around and filling them with tar every few days is also not a considered option, as I'd much rather spend that half hour to hour doing something useful.

[Tinkerer 107]

Let's look at some actual numbers. Maybe the math will demonstrate how difficult this will make things.

Rolf says that lamps will have to be refilled every 3-5 days under this system. Let's figure an average of every 4 days for a refill.

The Wurm year is 45.6 days. That means 11.4 refills per Wurm year. According ot the wiki, t takes 0.20 kg of olive oil to fill a lamp, so you need 2.28 kg of oil per year per lamp.

You get 0.06 kg of oil per olive. You get two harvest of olives each Wurm year, so one tree produces 0.12 kg of oil per year.

This means you need 19 olive trees for every lamp you have on your deed. (That's NINETEEN.)

Even if you assume that since lamps on deed are not burning 2/3 of the time because it's daylight, you're still looking at 6.3 olive trees per lamp.

You will want at least 4 lamps to light up the default 11x11 deed. That's either 26 or 76 tiles of olive trees (21% or 62% of your total deeded tiles).

That's a heck of a lot of wasted tiles just to have light on your deed.

You showed some nice maths on the quantity of olives, but what about the time factor of producing 1kg of olive oil compared to 1kg of tar.

Find a tar pit + 1 dig action

Wait for the right season + Find an unharvested olive tree + Harvest action + Pressing action (with high fail rate at low skill) = very small amount of olive oil. Now repeat this XX times.

I suggest the current duration of lamps apply only to Tar. Olive oil should last at least 6-10 times longer than tar.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Tinkerer

[Evilvision 301]

So is there a official answer anywhere. Do we now also have to have deed guards for lamps to get refilled? or is it how its been, implied that the guards are maintaining the deed even though you dont have to have them.

[Kraljtatov 34]

I think Rolf realized that this 'feature' was unrealistic. Personally, I believe a certain sized deed should have a proper level of maintenance (which the guards do for you; all you have to do is collect the oil.) if I could make one addition to this update though I would allow tar to be placed in the oil bins.

[Kyrmius 188]

As a deedholder I wish to comment:

I always prefer that Wurm be as much of a simulation as possible (rather than game), thus I always felt the Lamps on deeds with never ending fuel to be as much "Monty Hall" as mailboxes that never get emptied yet all mail gets delivered somehow. I do not favor any of these "magical" features in Wurm. I am in favor of Olive Oil in the Street Lamps being used up and running out... and needing to be refilled again. I feel THAT fits with how Wurm is supposwed to work as a simulation. I would be perfectly happy if we had to refill lamps on a regular basis because I felt it was wrong for them to never run out. Besides, now there is going to be a real and legitamate use and industry harvesting olive oil, as it should be.

But I do see the point some have made with how Lamps have been up until now... a never ending supply as a feature of deedownership.

Perhaps a Street Lamp *on a deed* could get extended fuel usage as compared to a lamp off deed.... instead of it running out in 3-5 days, perhaps double or triple that, as a benefit of deed ownership. That way it is still a feature of deed ownership, just toned down to a more intended level than what it has been.

[Uberknot 327]

-1 to 60 day lamps for one fill.

-1 to casting more forever lamps

+1 to making forestry more useful by adding to the amount harvested

+1 to adjusting the seasons

+1 to using animal fat after cooking it down to oil.

+1 to adding more time to lamps staying lit or requiring less oil.

+1 to the QL of lamps/oil effecting lasting longer

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

As a deedholder I wish to comment:

I always prefer that Wurm be as much of a simulation as possible (rather than game), thus I always felt the Lamps on deeds with never ending fuel to be as much "Monty Hall" as mailboxes that never get emptied yet all mail gets delivered somehow. I do not favor any of these "magical" features in Wurm. I am in favor of Olive Oil in the Street Lamps being used up and running out... and needing to be refilled again. I feel THAT fits with how Wurm is supposwed to work as a simulation. I would be perfectly happy if we had to refill lamps on a regular basis because I felt it was wrong for them to never run out. Besides, now there is going to be a real and legitamate use and industry harvesting olive oil, as it should be.

But I do see the point some have made with how Lamps have been up until now... a never ending supply as a feature of deedownership.

Perhaps a Street Lamp *on a deed* could get extended fuel usage as compared to a lamp off deed.... instead of it running out in 3-5 days, perhaps double or triple that, as a benefit of deed ownership. That way it is still a feature of deed ownership, just toned down to a more intended level than what it has been.

Wait until you have actually spent time harvesting olives, then pressing them to get oil to find you only get 0.06 per olive, and see how often you want to spend your gametime doing that.

[Kyrmius 188]

Wait until you have actually spent time harvesting olives, then pressing them to get oil to find you only get 0.06 per olive, and see how often you want to spend your gametime doing that.

Do you think I haven't already done that? I have spent many hours harvesting Olive trees on several characters over the years. I have been playing Wurm longer than you may think.

I still prefer Lamps to be required to be refilled on a regular basis. Even with all the work it takes.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Kyrmius

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Do you think I haven't already done that? I have spent many hours harvesting Olive trees on several characters over the years. I have been playing Wurm longer than you may think.

I still prefer Lamps to be required to be refilled on a regular basis. Even with all the work it takes.

I have also harvested lots of olives, but now you will have to do it EVERY harvest, not just once in a while. That is going to get very old very fast. Think about it, do you really want to spend that much time every month for olive oil? I would rather be doing lots of other things than that boring chore every 22 days. Don't know about you, but I came to play a game, not do more and more chores.

[Kyrmius 188]

I have also harvested lots of olives, but now you will have to do it EVERY harvest, not just once in a while. That is going to get very old very fast. Think about it, do you really want to spend that much time every month for olive oil? I would rather be doing lots of other things than that boring chore every 22 days. Don't know about you, but I came to play a game, not do more and more chores.

I came to run a simulation.

Now perhaps you understand why we don't agree with each other.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Kyrmius

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I came to run a simulation.

Now perhaps you understand why we don't agree with each other.

But it is a game. A game where giant spiders dwell, and a host of other fantastic creatures. A game where magic exists. I'm all for realism to an extent, but not when it just makes for more drudge work. Even you know there are LOTS of bigger flaws in this game Rolf should be taking care of instead of this. It's a time waster which only serves to try and keep folks too busy to see the other gaping flaws in the game.

[Aureate 18]

So we're supposed to be waiting on multistory and instead he's playing with the lamps? *facepalm*

[Uberknot 327]

Olive yield increased

With this update today olive yield has been increased for higher ages. And the previously mentioned oil barrel feature is coming live.

[Amber 337]

So we're supposed to be waiting on multistory and instead he's playing with the lamps? *facepalm*

Yep! Are you distracted yet? Forgot all about those pesky multistory buildings we've been promised? Don't stress. Rolf said he's working on them just like he said that lamps would never need refilling......