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Rolf

Circumvening The Nerf

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I agree that "theoretically" this could work out well in the "long run" ie harvest rates for olives are fixed. The short time change is stupid when there's MASSES of other things that need fixing. Wurm doesn't need more "have to work". The ideas about tower guards and changing harvest rates is a good one. Also Rolf has a PR person, perhaps instead of "getting around a nerf" as the blog post it could have been worded more professionally and I'm sure any pr person would have helped out with at least giving the blog post a better name. I guess the problem I have with this is I've lost track of whats "wurm mechanics" and whats 'unfixed bugs"...oh wait there's a difference? Some days it doesn't seem like it :(

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I agree that "theoretically" this could work out well in the "long run" ie harvest rates for olives are fixed. The short time change is stupid when there's MASSES of other things that need fixing. Wurm doesn't need more "have to work". The ideas about tower guards and changing harvest rates is a good one. Also Rolf has a PR person, perhaps instead of "getting around a nerf" as the blog post it could have been worded more professionally and I'm sure any pr person would have helped out with at least giving the blog post a better name. I guess the problem I have with this is I've lost track of whats "wurm mechanics" and whats 'unfixed bugs"...oh wait there's a difference? Some days it doesn't seem like it :(

Nah I like Rolf's way of saying things sometimes and do not need a candy spoon fed spiel every time a change happens.

Edited by Uberknot

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Lol, I just love it when people confuse it the meanings of realistic and real to justify their arguments. People do this all the time on this forum.

Real means that it actually exists in our world now. Realistic means it could be possible coforming on the rules of physics. SciFi is mostly realistic. In a fantasy setting that realistic means it conforms to the rules of physics and magic.

What you apparently missed in my statement regarding "realism", is that complaining that one aspect of something is not "realistic" in a world setting where 100 totally unrealistic things happen all the time, just because that's how it works in real life, is pretty dumb.

So what if the lamps were eternal on deed. Chalk it up to a magical effect and call it a day. Heck, have Mag priests cast Light Token on them if that makes it more "realistic" for you. There is a point where you have to set aside realism to accept a few other things. Such as 3m spiders that don't collapse under their own weight and manage to breath with book lungs at that size.

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Forever lamps were unrealistic but A GHOST GOING AROUND FILLING YOUR LAMPS UP IS TOTALLY REAL!!! <_<

Never said it was or it wasn't, I just said forever lamps were abit unrealistic.

I can only surmise that due to the unforgivable uproar a few lamps is causing that no matter what changes are ever made, good or bad (which is a matter of perspective) would just result in the same 'sky is falling' responces. To be honest, after 10+ years of gaming I've not quite seen small aspects of a community willing to throw themselves overboard in some kind of must commit suicide before the end arrives knee jerk reaction. Its almost bemusing but mostly a sad concern. Especially when the topic decends in to quotes from a dictionary. When a topic reaches that point its obvious its no longer about the original post but a vessel to vent frustrations.

Edited by York
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Too many weird "fixes" like this that mess up the routines folk have built for playing in wurm is all. We're not anti change, but like I've said a road map would help alleviate these types of uproar. Wurm is not an "easy" game, but there's no need to make it any harder or create more drudgery. That and things like tools not giving skill in some carp type sub skills/tools skills have been reported and ignored while this "vital" patch was introduced. If Rolf had said "here's what i'm thinking about doing for olive oil and ideas?" I'd fully support that type of work!

Edited by Pingpong

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A road map I could definately see the benefit of, dont get me wrong I see and suggest things frequently too and would love to see some of them implemented over lamp changes. Its just some replies in this thread and the other one seem to be extreme over reactions to something very trivial.

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Too many weird "fixes" like this that mess up the routines folk have built for playing in wurm is all. We're not anti change, but like I've said a road map would help alleviate these types of uproar. Wurm is not an "easy" game, but there's no need to make it any harder or create more drudgery. That and things like tools not giving skill in some carp type sub skills/tools skills have been reported and ignored while this "vital" patch was introduced. If Rolf had said "here's what i'm thinking about doing for olive oil and ideas?" I'd fully support that type of work!

I disagree, Rolf should not ask for permission every time something that is a bug needs to be fixed and I do not care what it is. Sure if its a Major overhaul like what is going on with Chaos or something similar, but not for fixing lamps that were broken. As a matter of fact that would make things worse as the forums would turn into a bigger mess of QQing then it already is.

Edited by Uberknot

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Never said it was or it wasn't, I just said forever lamps were abit unrealistic.

I can only surmise that due to the unforgivable uproar a few lamps is causing that no matter what changes are ever made, good or bad (which is a matter of perspective) would just result in the same 'sky is falling' responces. To be honest, after 10+ years of gaming I've not quite seen small aspects of a community willing to throw themselves overboard in some kind of must commit suicide before the end arrives knee jerk reaction. Its almost bemusing but mostly a sad concern. Especially when the topic decends in to quotes from a dictionary. When a topic reaches that point its obvious its no longer about the original post but a vessel to vent frustrations.

After a certain point, when a 'bug' has been unaddressed for a considerable time and the community at large doesn't even recognize it as a bug, yes it might cause some uproar when it's changed.

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Let's do some math. Let's say you have 10 lamps on a deed. This is not an unreasonable number to light up an 11x11 deed and perhaps a mine under it.

Lamps require .125 kg of oil or tar to fill. I'm assuming that hasn't been changed, please correct me if it has.

An olive gives .06kg of oil. A lamp therefore requires around 2 olives to fill completely. The ten lamps in the example would require 20 olives.

Let's give this the benefit of the doubt and put the time a full lamp remains lit at 5 days. That means every month you (or the guards) would have to refill them 6 times.

The example deed would therefore have to harvest 20 times 6 or 120 olives a month to keep the oil barrel full enough to fill 10 lamps. So your choices are to harvest 120 olives every month or to manually refill them. In some regions this would be incredibly difficult as there aren't many olive trees around.

Either reduce the amount of oil required to fill a lamp substantially or increase the amount of time lamps remain lit. This is a large nerf to deeds after people have gotten used to the convenience of not having to refill their lamps.

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Process raw tar.

Raw tar needs processing in a " Tar Processing unit " ( new ) to be of any use. Tar processing unit ( similar to a forge but smaller and without a chimney, needs a couldron in construction ) is fueled by burning 20kg wood for cooking the raw tar into the following products

From each 1kg of tar processed you get .50 tar pitch ( for ship building ), .25 carbon black oxide ( ingrediant for making ink and black paint/dye ), and .25 tar oil ( for using as lamp oil and general oil paint base. This tar oil will replace water, and water based colors will only be used as a dye for wood, leather and cloth items ).

Also, mixing any dye on a 1 for 1 basis with clay makes a glaze that can be applied to clay items and fired resulting in a colored pottery item.

And here is another further proposed nerf to the fueling of street lamps (and carried lanterns as well I would add) that would require additional work for even tar to be able to be used to fuel these devices. Unbelievable! The situation seems to be creating more ideas and proposals on how to make the simple process of fueling and the functioning of lamps and now lanterns as well, a more time consuming and complicated process. At the very worst I can simply let my street lamps run out of fuel and rot away. Now you want me (playerbase) to be involved in a further process, i.e. more work, to even be able to fuel my lanterns that I carry around to light up the areas where all my street lamps are no longer lighting up? Bad idea, no, no no.....

=Ayes=

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well i like this change, it opens a new markest possibility

if you don't want to make the oil yourself, just buy it from someone else... your problem is solved! let someone else worry about it

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Doesn't matter if it's one olive or 1 bunch of olives, it's one "unit" total. The thing is, when harvesting a tree, this 1 "unit" is all you can harvest per season, regardless of your skill level in gardening, forestry or farming. It should at least work like crops where higher skill = more yield.

Actually i have harvested my trees a few times I believe in season.

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Let's remove decay prevention on deeds, as well. After all, how are the structures magically being kept in repair? The invisible groundskeepers don't have a barrel of planks or shards to take materials from. Not very realistic.

Stop adding pointless complexity that does nothing but add chore.

Agreed!!

Another good way to make every deed pay 1s, way to go!

Friend: * Hey mate how are ya*

Me: * i just spend 3 hours filling 500 lamps spread over my 4 deeds*

Friend: * NICE!... SO MUCH FUN!

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As expected there are worries that it will become too much of a chore to keep lamps filled with oil or tar. Now, tar isn’t _really_ supposed to be used in lamps but it will still be possible to use of course since it would be too much of a nerf to remove that. Olive oil finally has the use and value it was supposed to from the very beginning.

I’ve added the possibility to build an “oil barrel†which will hold huge amounts of olive oil. If you keep a barrel on deed the guards will use the oil within to fill your street lamps. Guards can only deal with olive oil though so you can’t fill it with tar.

I also added the possibility to build armour stand and bow rack. The models are lacking for those as well but they will arrive eventually.

I just had to restart the Epic servers for another reason so they received this update and can try it out a bit before the other servers which will be restarted tomorrow.

View the full article

I do have a question, I am assuming you need to be skilled enough to make oil from the olives and then put in a barrel?

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What this means to me:

My deed will be dark except the hell horse and the forge... olive oil is simply not worth the effort.

If tar is allowed, I will set up a tar bin for the lamps... but otherwise not worth it.

Side note, have you tried to travel through an olive forest... it suuuuucks sooooo much trying to get through it. Please don't make this the norm! Please?

Edited by bp1986
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Stop adding pointless complexity that does nothing but add chore.

You just saved me the expense of buying a load of lamps for my new deed though Rolf.

Who the hell has time to light all their lamps EVERY night?

Removing mailboxes totally next? Deed decay? How about the realistic magic and goblins?

Once again changing something that was perfectly fine instead of doing something worthwhile.

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Look York, and others of your mindset, people who see problems with changes to existing features of the game have every right to make posts with their reasoning for objecting to these changes. Your demeaning characterizations of them as causing "unforgivable uproar", "must commit suicide before the end arrives knee jerk reaction", "a vessel to vent frustrations" for doing this is totally off the point as to the changes in question and does nothing to point out as to why the changes are benificial or negative; therefore contributes nothing to the topic at hand. I would suggest you and those of like mind refrain from your personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand.

=Ayes=

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Hmm, I don't agree with all the outrage and especially it's intensity, but I do agree that there are issues that should get way higher priority than something like this.

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How this will have effect on seasons?

Currently the winter/spring changes seems a bit hectic,

is there a way to know _exactly_ how many days left for the next olive season?

Maybe we could get a message before being too late to harvest?

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you can check the ingame time and compare with the wiki, ingame week is 21 real hours.

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How this will have effect on seasons?

Currently the winter/spring changes seems a bit hectic,

is there a way to know _exactly_ how many days left for the next olive season?

Maybe we could get a message before being too late to harvest?

Harvesting Calculator

Edited by thorgot

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My deed will be dark except the hell horse and the forge... olive oil is simply not worth the effort.

If tar is allowed, I will set up a tar bin for the lamps... but otherwise not worth it.

I spoke with Rolf a bit wanting some confirmation on things. Right now, it is ONLY olive oil that will be filled by guards. If you want to keep your lights lit with tar you'll have to manually fill them.

I don't have an issue paying an extra 1s a month to insure that my lights are kept on, but it does seem like quite an ordeal to harvest 120 olive trees to ensure that 10 lights can stay lit for a month. I have well over 10 lights on my largest deed. There are already so many 'chores' that have to be done on-deed (farming before crops die, feeding animals, grooming animals, repairing, etc) that I feel this is starting to take away from some of the 'fun' of the game.

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Filled lamps should last longer than 3-5 RL days. At least two weeks, preferably a month. For those of us paying for large deeds (and hence, a LOT of lamps), trying to find & harvest enough olives to keep them all lit is going to be next to impossible. Not to mention the amount of time dedicated to harvesting & creating the oil is going to be a real pain in the rear, especially with all the other maintenance activities that we have to deal with.

I don't have a problem with refilling the lamps, or with having the guards do it out of a barrel, but please please please reduce the amount of oil needed per lamp and/or lengthen the amount of time a unit of oil will keep a lamp lit.

:)

Edited by Moxie

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120 olive trees for 10 lamps per month seems excessive, maybe a better solution would be to increase the timer on the lamps so they last for 14 days rather than 3-5days

Edited by York

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