Bison Proliferation

[Eyesgood 2,121]

I have heard conflicting reports that Bison will eventually spawn on all the Freedom servers, and still some who say it is limited to Cele only. What's the official word on Bison proliferation? Also, since I have yet to see one, can someone please post a pic or maybe a video of them?

[Kegan 3,926]

There was a post in the old art section with a link to what they look like. (i use stable and it still uses the cattle model)

http://dl.dropbox.co...0427.1948_2.png

Edit: I think there redoing the texture coloring some not sure if that is done on the unstable client or not.

I just loaded the unstable these things are awesome now the new texture coloring if perfect nice work guys. Now PLEASE let us breed them so we can replace our cattle with them. Here is what they look like now..

Edited June 12, 2012 by Kegan

[Uberknot 327]

There was a post in the old art section with a link to what they look like. (i use stable and it still uses the cattle model)

http://dl.dropbox.co...0427.1948_2.png

Edit: I think there redoing the texture coloring some not sure if that is done on the unstable client or not.

I just loaded the unstable these things are awesome now the new texture coloring if perfect nice work guys. Now PLEASE let us breed them so we can replace our cattle with them. Here is what they look like now..

that looks sweet!

[Kegan 3,926]

Here is a pair hitched to a cart see how the one is eating grass while they sit there the animation is really cool.

[Jberg 3,070]

I have heard conflicting reports that Bison will eventually spawn on all the Freedom servers, and still some who say it is limited to Cele only. What's the official word on Bison proliferation? Also, since I have yet to see one, can someone please post a pic or maybe a video of them?

We've had them on Chaos for ages. It probably comes down to the spawn cap being met?

[Moxie 271]

That's it. I'm killing off my horse herd and every non-aggro I see until I see these on Exodus.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

WOW, thanks Kegan! Can't wait to see them on Deli!

[Kyrmius 188]

We've had them on Chaos for ages. It probably comes down to the spawn cap being met?

On Deli I am fairly certain we have not only reached the non-aggressive spawn cap, but we may have actually exceeded it. There are thousands of horses penned up just within 30 minutes walking from where I live SE of GD. I seriously doubt we will see any of these beauties anytime soon unless there is a mass die-off of horses (especially over-populated) and maybe cattle.

(and NO I am not a livestock merchant looking to boost my own sales. Just saying Deli has way too many horses)

North American Bison? I would have thought it would have been an European or Asian species, North American. Very nice and thank you Devs.

[Satch 41]

One more reason for breeding requirements to be lessened so players can attain the quality they want with fewer animals being required to get there.

[atazs 965]

Should i consider my self lucky to have about 6-7 bisons around my deed?

[Alyeska 2,621]

On Deli I am fairly certain we have not only reached the non-aggressive spawn cap, but we may have actually exceeded it. There are thousands of horses penned up just within 30 minutes walking from where I live SE of GD. I seriously doubt we will see any of these beauties anytime soon unless there is a mass die-off of horses (especially over-populated) and maybe cattle.

(and NO I am not a livestock merchant looking to boost my own sales. Just saying Deli has way too many horses)

North American Bison? I would have thought it would have been an European or Asian species, North American. Very nice and thank you Devs.

Im afraid of the same on exodus. We are way past the actual "spawn" cap, killing off almost my entire herd of cattle and still not a single report of a livestock animal is not right. I hope Rolf considers raising the cap, becuase there's no way otherwise this will be adressed.

[BobMcKnob 46]

Let's just run around slaughtering everything.

[Epic_Sojourner 8]

They are running free in their Herds All over Serenity.

[joedobo 1,187]

I hope Rolf considers raising the cap, becuase there's no way otherwise this will be adressed.

What? That will only help very briefly if at all. Making more spots in a system that rewards people for keeping more isn't going to fix anything.

1. Make domestic pets or farm animals use substantially less AI processes. Barns are definitely a possibility, yet not a simple fix. (Animals stored inside barn and client side little horsy pictures wander around near the barn, think eagles flying or fish swimming).

2. Redesign the animal system so less is better and we can achieve optimal results with a animal herd size designed around the ratio: Premium player count and weighted with AH skills : reasonable number of slots so stuff will spawn in the wild. Again, not a simple fix.

Bison are cool and all. What about chickens, pigs, dogs? Why does it have to be so much more work to raise these type of animals compared to horses and cows? I love the idea of the chicken coops, pig pens, dog kennels, or in general barns. It has no effect on anyone if I got 10's of thousand of items in my bins. Similarly I could have thousands of chickens in coops assuming I could make enough food and had the space for them.

[Wraithglow 787]

What? That will only help very briefly if at all. Making more spots in a system that rewards people for keeping more isn't going to fix anything.

1. Make domestic pets or farm animals use substantially less AI processes. Barns are definitely a possibility, yet not a simple fix. (Animals stored inside barn and client side little horsy pictures wander around near the barn, think eagles flying or fish swimming).

2. Redesign the animal system so less is better and we can achieve optimal results with a animal herd size designed around the ratio: Premium player count and weighted with AH skills : reasonable number of slots so stuff will spawn in the wild. Again, not a simple fix.

Bison are cool and all. What about chickens, pigs, dogs? Why does it have to be so much more work to raise these type of animals compared to horses and cows? I love the idea of the chicken coops, pig pens, dog kennels, or in general barns. It has no effect on anyone if I got 10's of thousand of items in my bins. Similarly I could have thousands of chickens in coops assuming I could make enough food and had the space for them.

I understand your point here, but I disagree with your assumptions.

If the cap was raised, I don't think that people would simply breed more horses and take up all the increase. The reason I think this is because we don't constantly (and, as far as i'm aware, haven't once in the last few months) encounter the situation where people are prevented from creating more horses by miscarriages. Since I'm not being prevented from breeding new horses by code now, it follows that people have as many horses now as they would if the cap was higher. Therefore, raising the cap would primarily lead to more wild animals.

My argument only falls apart if people decide, once chickens and bison and so forth are more common, that they would like a herd of them as well. However, I don't see that as a problem - these are domestic non-aggressive animals so what's wrong with domesticating them? Why should we place more value on someone occasionally enjoying seeing a creature in the wild than enjoying seeing a creature being in their farm every day?

[Kyrmius 188]

They are running free in their Herds All over Serenity.

Hahaha sure they are... because it's Players that get chased there, not the horses. Nice try.

[joedobo 1,187]

I understand your point here, but I disagree with your assumptions.

Since I'm not being prevented from breeding new horses by code now, it follows that people have as many horses now as they would if the cap was higher. Therefore, raising the cap would primarily lead to more wild animals.

My argument only falls apart if people decide, once chickens and bison and so forth are more common, that they would like a herd of them as well. However, I don't see that as a problem - these are domestic non-aggressive animals so what's wrong with domesticating them? Why should we place more value on someone occasionally enjoying seeing a creature in the wild than enjoying seeing a creature being in their farm every day?

---I'm mainly being limited right now by fear that Mr. Nerf stick will come along and destroy my months of hard work. And to a lesser extent, reluctance to build more 1x3 pens and keeping farm tiles planted. I only got horses right now, although it would be cool to have all the other animals. If changes are put in place that signal its okay to keep more then that will encourage players to keep more. This is just another perspective that is conceptually similar to your last paragraph. We have never had a balanced system and Devs just keep nerfing more and more with band-aid fixes.

---If raising the cap will answer the problem, why hasn't it be done already? That has got to be one of the easiest fixes ever. Animal realted complaints (hording or lack of) have plagued Wurm for the years I been playing. And every time these type of conversations come up, raising the cap also is asked for. I'm sticking to my ideals that we would benefit from a reward based system where less gives more and barns too. Before bulk bins many players where complaining about lag and asking for more aggressive decay nerfs. Now no one cares how many rock shards, logs, wood scarp, and farm crops others have.

---Where animals are created (spawn or breed) and who benefits from this is hugely subjective. I'd like to see at least some in the wild, if nothing else so players can find new domestics pet. I rarely see pigs, chickens, or cows in the wild. If it wasn't for lairs, I betting dogs and dears wouldn't be around either. Its all just too subjective, like how I would love to see a 100% peaceful, all creatures are blue outline, server. Yet some people respond to that saying Wurm's core values include risking death and being chased by spiders or trolls. Well I disagree, Wurm is what you make it, if you want a peaceful building server, great have at it.

Edited June 14, 2012 by joedobo

[Claies 77]

If the cap was raised, I don't think that people would simply breed more horses and take up all the increase.

This is the same argument that was used right before the cap was doubled, not a year ago, and we are still in the same situation.

[Emoo 4,357]

This is the same argument that was used right before the cap was doubled, not a year ago, and we are still in the same situation.

Exactly. Raising the spawn cap is a temporary fix at best. What needs to happen is a more liable to reduce the need and ability for players horde mass amounts of horses. The threat of disease simply isn't doing enough.

[Alyeska 2,621]

What? That will only help very briefly if at all. Making more spots in a system that rewards people for keeping more isn't going to fix anything.

1. Make domestic pets or farm animals use substantially less AI processes. Barns are definitely a possibility, yet not a simple fix. (Animals stored inside barn and client side little horsy pictures wander around near the barn, think eagles flying or fish swimming).

I suggested exactly this (remove AI from bred animals) but Rolf ignored it...

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Rolf needs to figure out a way to remove the cap completely, or this argument will always continue. Animal Husbandry is the only skill where your resource is so severely limited. The server can handle millions of ores, dirt, rock shards, or logs, but is stuck so much lower for animals. I understand it is because of their AI, but that just shows Rolf where to work first.

I'm not sure how he could work barns. The bsb and fsb work so well because they turn everything in them into the same item of the same ql (averaging) so the server does not have to work on each item alone. I know we can't have barns doing that, horses have names, and individual traits that I know we don't want to see averaged. And all the horses are of different ages, that would also have to be accounted for (can't have the horses immortal in the barns). So I can see barns created, but I don't expect them to decrease the load on the server. Rolf will still have to work on the code of animals themselves, so more can be around.

Let's face it, as it works now, if everyone kept animals they would only be able to keep a few before the cap is met. And more players will only exacerbate the problem. The cap doesn't hurt the breeders, it is only keeping domestic animals from being spawned in the wild. This domectic cap only seems to affect horses, cattle, pigs, chickens, and now the bison. All other non-aggro animals spawn quite freely everywhere. It's time to make the caps unnecessary.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Vroomfondel

[Kegan 3,926]

There will always be the hordes you are not going to be able to stop that but as many have said a few things you can do is fix the breeding. I have around 60 AH and i cant even get a newborn horse that does not have bad traits on the new server. I only have 4 breeding pairs but if things were fixed i would only keep two the way it is now it makes me want to get more so i have the odds on my side to get a good horse out of them without using genesis.

[Reylaark 1,100]

I know this may sound completely backwards, but what about a barn that speeds up a horse's maturity time?

Sure, they wouldn't live as long, so it's not for everyone, but it would speed up breeding cycles for people looking for traits, or to sell, or any reason to keep a large herd aside from it looking cool

It would also allow people who don't like the idea of killing their unwanted horses a chance to comfortably expedite their moving on to Equine Valhalla.

[Uberknot 327]

No barns because I see a massive amount coming out of those to sooner or later.

Limit breeding to cared for animals. that would be a good start.

I see them all the time on Epic btw.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Uberknot

[Moxie 271]

It would also allow people who don't like the idea of killing their unwanted horses a chance to comfortably expedite their moving on to Equine Valhalla.

The Barn of Dooooooom!

How about spawning livestock thru lairs, much like other creatures do now? We get unicorn, deer, and dog lairs pretty frequently - add horse, bison, cattle, pig hollows, and poultry nests as well. Such creatures would spawn for a time in a specific region, until the lair runs it's course or is bashed. We certainly have plenty of unicorn spawns... why can't some of these be livestock?

I also agree with Vroomfondel, this issue is going to keep coming up until the caps are addressed. It seems like most of the hoarders are hoarding horses/cattle. I'd like to at least see pigs, bison, and poultry (chickens/roosters/pheasants) pulled out to be included in the general non-aggro grouping with deer, unicorns, and dogs.