Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) I think these are two things that are more of an annoyance and are trying to create realism in a non-realistic game. Wurm Online isn't a realistic game, it has dragons, spells, and you can jump down mountains and survive so it's odd that updates like this get implemented which contradict the sandbox-fantasy theme of it. By far the aggressive aggros attacking horses is one of the worst updates I've seen, even worse than the one day update Rolf did where you got some CR buff for the more money you had in upkeep and everyone said, "Hell no." a) Horses are easy to kill. A player can easily take one out with bows, swords, or spears. That is the point of the polearm addition to the game. Horses drop to an incredibly slow amount of speed after just one hit most often. Meaning that before you even realize your horse is being attacked, it's likely already screwed. [23:28:12] Old starving champion crocodile claws Aged fat Dancecall extremely hard in the stomach and damages it.[23:28:16] Old starving champion crocodile claws Aged fat Dancecall very hard in the thigh of the right hindleg and harms it.[23:28:19] Old starving champion crocodile bites Aged fat Dancecall extremely hard in the stomach and damages it.[23:28:19] Old starving champion crocodile claws Aged fat Dancecall extremely hard in the calf of the right foreleg and damages it.Hey, great, in less than ten seconds my horse is dead in four hits and it has leather barding on it (80ql). At the first hit I tried to run and my horse was going no more than 3km/hr and dropped dead a few seconds later. As I said before -- the update is POINTLESS. You shouldn't add realism to a fantasy sandbox game. I'm not raging because of this one event, this has happened countless times and it makes hunting and PvP so much harder. Is this meant to make the game "harder"? Because it just becomes a great annoyance to me, not a challenge. c) Horses are great for roaming and transportation on a PvP server. You (Rolf) should encourage people to venture to enemy lands and battle, but the thing is not many can do that on horseback anymore. It's made nearly impossible to go into enemy lands on horseback with 4-5 guards swarming you and killing your horse first - and then you're left hopeless in the middle of nowhere. It's a poor design mechanic that only hurts on-foot PvP. Players are more than capable of killing horses. Before this update I loved to roam around enemy lands, but as soon as this came in it made it 10x more difficult than it needed to be. Especially if people put spears + club shods on their tower guards, and in one hit you're rooted and the horse dies. Losing your horse in enemy lands is the worst. Player movement speed is so slow on a huge sandbox map, and not everyone can dish out 5s for a twig every time they go out. I can't express how badly this update is. No one should be that reliant on tower guards for battles, and the need for this update in my opinion is not there. I'm trying my best to think of an argument for why the update is good, but I don't see it. In my opinion it screws over anyone venturing into enemy lands on horseback because there's a far more likely shot they're going to go down by the tower guards than actual people now. Please, revert this on Epic for people can actually roam in enemy lands and not have to worry about their horses dying before even reaching the real enemies.This update only says to me is that in PvP Wurm doesn't want people freely running around in enemy lands on horses untouched. ...Well. isn't that what PvP is? You go to the enemy lands? It is up to the actual players/fighters to stop enemies, not tower guards. What do you think people are going to come on foot and get slaughtered by a stampede of horsed-fighters in their own lands?tl;dr Horses being attacked first is a bad system for several reasons as listed above in a lengthier verison. It is an annoyance, and nothing more than that. It hurts PvP and upsets many players with unneeded deaths of their horses. Edited June 12, 2012 by Postes 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 Horses die too fast to everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 Nah horses have been needing a usage nerf for a long time. In a fight, who doesnt target a horse first? If players do it by necessity, then surely tower guards should be able to figure it out. It was a needed change for deed guards since raiders were basically prancing about with impunity on Wild.The addition of horses was a godsend in both pve and pvp; however, they pretty much made hunters untouchable (well if one is not stupid enough to get cornered).On the other hand, by no means should AI guards be a replacement for active player defenders, and I do agree horses could use a slight buff in pve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 About the time a troll jumps out from behind a tree and one hits your horse.....(true story) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 This was one of many recent nails in the coffin of Epic and PvP. Should be reverted ASAP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 I don't mind if spirit guards attack them, but tower guards? Look at any deed on Epic - NT, Avarga, BS, there is 4-5 towers circling and encasing them, you aren't even able to get to a deed on horseback anymore before it dying to guards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) To be honest, i rarely use my horses to ride out or to drag a heavy loaded large cart since i nearly lost them by several occaisons. I don't have that much horses and i don't want to lose them. Once i saw a dead crocodile and a dead horse lying together and the whole place smelled like heavy frustration. Call me a carebear please, but it would be great to keep the horses and risk only my life when fighting against monsters/animals. Edited June 12, 2012 by Aelfred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 I agree to the OP in its entirety, and, like stated was one of the many changes/bugs thats made me quite the game and sell my account, i used to hunt in enemy lands all the time, but when the change was implemented, it was simply impossible. even with barding a troll/TG with a weapon will 3-5 shout you horse, solo, but theres never one TG. It made it impossible to roam around looking for pvp.The very large majority of pvp is now done by/on boats, and boats are extremly buggy with permissions and location. Especially when border crossing.Not to mention on retarded it is to HAVE to take 2-3 horses out for a hunting session, in your own land, just because a spider or croc may target your horse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) To be honest, i rarely use my horses to ride out or to drag a heavy loaded large cart since i nearly lost them by several occaisons. I don't have that much horses and i don't want to lose them. Once i saw a dead crocodile and a dead horse lying together and the whole place smelled like heavy frustration. Call me a carebear please, but it would be great to keep the horses and risk only my life when fighting against monsters/animals.I don't consider it carebear - again, I am all for risk, I love PvP, but this isn't a challenge, risk, or anything. It's just an annoyance. The logic is so backwards too, people say, "just bard your horse." Okay, watch your chain barded horse get hurt and then see how slow it goes. It won't even move. Barding will make it worse really.Horses aren't that expendable, you can't go through 5 everytime you and some friends want to go out and easily find a replacement afterwards. Edited June 12, 2012 by Postes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 With the issues surrounding the massive quantity of horses needing to maintain a plausable breeding operation, yeah, losing your horse to something silly like a troll is just annoying.And as much as it pains me to agree with Postes I'm going to have to here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 Perhaps the solution is to buff horses CR to something more defenceable vs. Mobs and guards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 As someone who breeds horses that get constantly killed off, I have to agree. It takes months and months to get a breeding herd that isn't complete garbage and then it takes a month to raise a horse for someone to ride. The only way someones horse will live a decent amount of time is if they avoid everything dangerous like the plague and that is anti-fun.The change is akin to giving guards/tough animals a special move that would destroy a piece of armor or the enemies weapon/shield and even then a piece of gear can be replaced faster and easier than a horse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 I agree to reverting animals attacking horses.. but not to tower guards having a chance to attack horses. If an enemy is riding a horse (or other mount) they are fair game for a tower guard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 I agree to reverting animals attacking horses.. but not to tower guards having a chance to attack horses. If an enemy is riding a horse (or other mount) they are fair game for a tower guard.thats why theres hardly any horse pvp near deeds, i mean last time we pvp'd you our horses died in seconds because it was next to a tower, i mean for people like me it doesnt matter because im suicidal and dont care but getting a horse killed everytime you wanna pvp just because you pass a tower or some mobs is stupid, it takes a very long time to get the best horses just so they can be lost while your hunting or looking for pvp... i agree more tower guards being reverted than mobs...the first time i died in that fight was due to tower guards hitting my horse slowing it down so much i couldnt go anywhere, they took my horse out in seconds and i had no stam to move and was already on half health from fighting, i only wanted to back out and heal to find like 3 guards on me.... yes lesson learnt but i wanna die to players not guards because of some stupid coding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 I agree that sucks... but keep in mind our tower guards had long spears. It's not fun to breed a new horse every time you want to pvp... that's why at NT we mainly used untraited horses or shitty horses. No point in getting the best horses if they all die first in pvp anyway. The best horses are really only useful for running away from a fight, not for actually fighting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Give me a break really Champion Croc should be able to eat your horse once in awhile, Its part of the game and it happens ok and it does not happen that often, Changing it back is more like my little pony thinking and should not happen in Wurm. -1, This Idea that mounts should be protected 100% of the time while tamed animals get waxed 100% of the time is BUNK. Both should have some chance of getting attacked END OF STORY. More or less this seems like an attempt to remove the change because its NOT so EASY anymore. .This was already nerfed back abit as it is from an IRC convo no less. As a matter of fact I killed mostly trolls from the mid/low 60's to 70+ fight skill and guess how many horses I lost??1 Edited June 14, 2012 by Uberknot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 whats the point in posting when people seem to skip reality when they reply..... uber you dont even pvp so shut up you have no idea about mounts and tower guards stop being suck a troll and grow up.... try spending months breeding 5 speed trait horses for pvp then have them eaten in seconds by a guard or mob its just making horse breeding useless.....@ianrose, thats the point im making, you guys dont even breed horses because of this, you never go out by horse because of this and having a fast horse can be the difference between life and death like you said and even getting a kill.this is one of the reasons pvp is dying.... unless people dont want more pvp? in that case troll away and vote no Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) There has already been a poll and discussion.http://forum.wurmonl...ked#entry584255and here's the IRC convo that tweaked it to be easier already.http://forum.wurmonl...260#entry592014It's going to be tweaked for the towers though are they attacking 50% or 100% is the question? Anyhow I told ya he would do something if needed. Interesting IRC convo there. It would seem you really do not have to talk about things or even offer suggestions in Wurm to make changes that's too bad. Plenty of time here in this thred to suggest something other than I want it turned back now.....mememe. Which goes back to the whole thing about agenda. That's fine I know I'll remember it for along time.[13:24:57] <Jackburton> just curious Rolf, but do you plan to keep stifling PvP with the guards automagically attacking mounts?[13:26:42] <Jackburton> any plan on addressing the guard/mount aggro situation?[13:27:05] <Rof> jackburton do they instaattack mounts now?[13:27:46] <Jackburton> guards will go for mounts more than half the time I woudl say[13:27:54] <Popsteh> guards (tower and spirit) automatically attack mounts 100%[13:28:00] <Jackburton> I posted a lot of logs from last night's journey around Elevation[13:28:57] <Jackburton> no offense, but I don't feel like spending more time worrying about NPCs instead of worrying about the people I play against in PvP[13:29:03] <Jackburton> kind of makes PvP a misnomer[13:29:10] <Rof> i'll tweak it Edited June 12, 2012 by Uberknot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Tweaking is far more common with Rolf than outright removing. Now the only question is will the tweaks swing too far from one extreme to the other, or will it be juuuuuuuuust right?I just hope it doesnt turn into another epic flamewar like archery in the beginning of Goldv2 Edited June 12, 2012 by Klaa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 Tweaking is far more common with Rolf than outright removing. Now the only question is will the tweaks swing too far from one extreme to the other, or will it be juuuuuuuuust right?I just hope it doesnt turn into another epic flamewar like archery in the beginning of Goldv2LOL! no Idea, but when I do get to archery and if its easy mode I will say something you can bet on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 Guards dont even look at you untill the horse is dead, would be better if they didnt attack horses at all, besides, I want PvP not PvG thankyou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Guards dont even look at you untill the horse is dead, would be better if they didnt attack horses at all, besides, I want PvP not PvG thankyou Well Some of the people don't want to fight some artifact that got dug up either....part of the game. I mean it gets to a point where what is PvP really? Spirit templars have been nerfed to hell and back because no one wants to fight them either, What about spells?, Pets?, Traps?, etc... Should we just remove everything that interferes with any PvP person at all and make players fight straight up one on one with none of this other junk in the way???Just saying.....there are alot of things that are in PvP that are not the actual Player that can effect the outcome. Edited June 12, 2012 by Uberknot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2012 loving uber commenting about pvp yano this guy is one of the most active pvpers on epic....when would you even come into an enemy tower? never.... when would you ever have to deal with anything being mentioned in this thread other than the odd mob which isnt really the main focus...guards attack 100% horses which means EVEN if you wanted to kill a tower guard it would kill your horse way before you killed it... thats meant to be intended... dont make me laugh.another important fact for you uber, the game is a sandbox game nearly everything in it has been "tweeked" or "changed" since day 1 of wurm the whole point of people mentioning things is to get a better gameplay, this doesnt even affect you so why you feel the need to be against it really is beyond me.... people like you want wurm to halt and never to be changed where as other people constantly comment on things to see if theres a better solution to make the experience more tolerable for all..... you need to learn when to stop being a dirty little troll maybe somebody might take you seriously if you actually used logic and experience instead of assumptions and accusations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
