Chaos Changes

[Rolf 3,563]

Allright,

I'm sure a lot of you are sceptic towards these recent changes and I doubt there'll ever be consensus on the Chaos server. There are at least two factions there today - those who want full PvP with raiding and those who want a lot less. We're scaling up the PvP heat but for now raiding by destroying walls and fences should be prevented by code.

There will be efforts when it comes to making PvP more interesting overall - it's always been a goal - one being solving the lack of territorial warfare and motives. What this means is probably various sorts of conquerable points of interest including guard towers off deed as well as some new local resources which should make inland areas on all servers more interesting.

There are still issues and bugs to solve - one being looting, Right now you may have to declare alliance war once every four days because there is still the possibility to declare peace but there is no code for waiting for both parties.

Lockpicking on other deeds may give reputation hits still - need reports on that. Catapulting should have no effect on walls/fences on deeds your'e not allowed to.

Spells also may need changes. Need a list of those.

Don't expect all spells and other features to work as if it was kingdom wars like on the Epic servers. Hopefully we end up with something more interesting and playable for you who have old characters and for Freedom players who want to try PvP out. Full PvP will always be available on Epic where the code supports it.

Oh, there are still Village and Alliance wars but I removed the Village Wars section on the Manage Alliance popup. The real need for Village wars is gone now with alliance wars and they only confuse the situation really so they'll probably disappear.

[Fooligun 591]

I quite like these changes, As I said to you in IRC and highlighted possible problems that you have posted about I hope this a smooth transition with changes that benefit all parties involved.

[Aristia 37]

These proposed changes are quite honestly, sad. You are essentially making wild, freedom, just you can kill people that you catch off deed by sheer chance. Any deed is now essentially untouchable - making raiding now a useless thing from the past and pvp even more dead, atleast you could force pvp by declaring war, now, you can sit behind a writ or tall wall and afk, war or not.

Please do reconsider your ideas Rolf, this is not how wild should be, this is killing the point of wild, it isn't just another PvE server.

[darthryan 588]

These proposed changes are quite honestly, sad. You are essentially making wild, freedom, just you can kill people that you catch off deed by sheer chance. Any deed is now essentially untouchable - making raiding now a useless thing from the past and pvp even more dead, atleast you could force pvp by declaring war, now, you can sit behind a writ or tall wall and afk, war or not.

Please do reconsider your ideas Rolf, this is not how wild should be, this is killing the point of wild, it isn't just another PvE server.

[Uberknot 327]

Please Explain to me how Raiding helped keep more players having deeds and playing PvP? From everything I have witnessed the only thing it does is reduce player population and deeds. Players still have to travel and do things and PvP will be enabled. All this change does with the walls and deeds is give those who do not want to lose everything a chance to PvP and have their Castle. It could work and you might see more players making deeds on Chaos after the changes are said to be permanent. I know people will not move if they think more and more changes are coming. I say give it a chance and a tweak if needed, but the ruleset has to be finalized soon.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Really can't believe you guys. Did you really read all of his posts? Check out the blog and you will find he says this is just the first of many changes, that he can't do it all at once without testing, and he is asking you to test what works now so he can get that working before he implements more changes. If you all want a pvp server so much stop crying and help him out.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Vroomfondel

[Aristia 37]

Please Explain to me how Raiding helped keep more players having deeds and playing PvP? From everything I have witnessed the only thing it does is reduce player population and deeds. Players still have to travel and do things and PvP will be enabled. All this change does with the walls and deeds is give those who do not want to lose everything a chance to PvP and have their Castle. It could work and you might see more players making deeds on Chaos after the changes are said to be permanent. I know people will not move if they think more and more changes are coming. I say give it a chance and a tweak if needed, but the ruleset has to be finalized soon.

All i can see is people never leaving their deed, why not? They are essentially in a safe zone - in a traditionally very lethal server that has always been a prime example of survival of the fittest. It isn't suppose to cater to everyone, it has its inherit risks in the simple point that it is PvP. I don't think many care all that much for random deeds dotted all over the map that are completely untouchable, it ruins the point of PvP - which is to have incentives, currently we have no incentives other than raiding a deed - and that incentive has just been removed. This will do more harm than good to those who actually play this server, and have stayed with it through all the changes than hoping it lures some random guy to make some wooden fences that are magically untouchable.

Really can't believe you guys. Did you really read all of his posts? Check out the blog and you will find he says this is just the first of many changes, that he can't do it all at once without testing, and he is asking you to test what works now so he can get that working before he implements more changes. If you all want a pvp server so much stop crying and help him out.

We complain because every time we offer an idea, it is disregarded entirely, prime example? Chaos council. That was the biggest waste of time i've seen in a long time, can you blame us for losing hope in bothering to help when every time we try, we're ignored?

Edited June 8, 2012 by Aristia

[Finnishpkt 21]

Why can't we vote then. I bet that those who don't want full pvp and raiding, are immigrants from Freedom.

those who want full PvP with raiding and those who want a lot less.

What if we went to freedom, and demanded full pvp there?

[Uberknot 327]

All i can see is people never leaving their deed, why not? They are essentially in a safe zone - in a traditionally very lethal server that has always been a prime example of survival of the fittest. It isn't suppose to cater to everyone, it has its inherit risks in the simple point that it is PvP. I don't think many care all that much for random deeds dotted all over the map that are completely untouchable, it ruins the point of PvP - which is to have incentives, currently we have no incentives other than raiding a deed - and that incentive has just been removed. This will do more harm than good to those who actually play this server, and have stayed with it through all the changes than hoping it lures some random guy to make some wooden fences that are magically untouchable.

Yeah you will have some of those players who do not PvP at all as well as some who PvP some of the time and those who PvP more often. That can only lead to more Players and try to remember Chaos has some of the best skilled fighters in the Game of Wurm. This can only be a good thing as it gives people a reason to build on the server and will add to the population and PvP as well. So what if there are some players hiding behind walls forever that is their loss in reality.

Personally I was for all out FAA and see what happens to Chaos from there just to give it one last chance.

If Chaos is constantly being changed forever it takes away from the game as well as keeps players from committing to playing and living there. I hope this next set of changes is the last set of changes and the Server can move on with the ruleset it has so Rolf can spend more time getting the New Changes and Graphics Updates ready.

[Redd 4,281]

Raiding is part of a PvP server, there should be no areas which are untouchable by code.

This is a sandbox - we should be able to raid if we wish too on a PvP server.

Please do reconsider raiding as it is one of the main features for the PvP server in my eyes - Otherwise there is no need for Chaos.

[Suntan 83]

Great news for a freedom dweller to set up a deed in Chaos. Thank you for the changes.

[Fooligun 591]

Great news for a freedom dweller to set up a deed in Chaos. Thank you for the changes.

This is a completely NEW and unheard of version of wurm to play.

[khatanka 317]

I am a hunter to "wild". PvP is not all but it was and is an essential part of the server.

We should support Rolf, rather than gradual changes than none.

By Cele, I have 2/3 of my lost estate, and start all over again. What the hell ^^ What we need are the challenges and variety. Standing still is always step back and slow death for each server!

"Wild" is waiting for us - we pack it in ...

[Finnishpkt 21]

Please Explain to me how Raiding helped keep more players having deeds and playing PvP? From everything I have witnessed the only thing it does is reduce player population and deeds. Players still have to travel and do things and PvP will be enabled. All this change does with the walls and deeds is give those who do not want to lose everything a chance to PvP and have their Castle. It could work and you might see more players making deeds on Chaos after the changes are said to be permanent. I know people will not move if they think more and more changes are coming. I say give it a chance and a tweak if needed, but the ruleset has to be finalized soon.

What i enjoy, and why i started playing on wild in the first wasn't the pvp, I'm not that good of pvper. There's players that pretty much kill everyone in pvp. Why i started playing was the suspension that we might get raided, that you're always in danger. Also, while i couldn't kill a good player, i could still join raids, and help in winning the war against enemies. Raiding and destroying other villages is at least as important as pvp is. This just my oppinion.

The base idea of the Wild used to be building a place which you can protect, and a place that is hard raid. We started as scratch too, we build a place, we got raided a couple of times. But we got up, and I enjoyed the building, which took alot of time.

[Issle 793]

I came to chaos a week ago in anticipation of the changes. I joined a deed met some nice people but as it seems there's no solid plan for chaos. Heading back to Independence with sadness on my face

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I swear, none of you read his post properly. Read it again, and read his blog.

We're scaling up the PvP heat but FOR NOW raiding by destroying walls and fences should be prevented by code.

I put the important part in caps so you might notice it better. The change is obviously a temporary one, as Rolf has to make a lot of changes to the code and he doesn't want to screw it all up with too many changes at one time. It's a complex job setting up new code for pvp. So get out there try it, and let him know what does and doesn't work. He needs your help to get this right. If you aren't willing to try and help him, I don't see why he should waste his time on it for you anymore.

[Wraithglow 787]

I'm not currently a PvP'er, but I think this is a sensible move - we always complain about rolf jumping all in with an idea, without warning, and it being full of bugs as a result. For once, he is taking it one step at a time, and you guys are complaining? As vroom has pointed out, he says "for now" raiding is disallowed.

Also i'm interested to see how the focus on raiding is changed by this part:

There will be efforts when it comes to making PvP more interesting overall - it's always been a goal - one being solving the lack of territorial warfare and motives. What this means is probably various sorts of conquerable points of interest including guard towers off deed as well as some new local resources which should make inland areas on all servers more interesting

I've always felt, as an observer, that pvp seems to be a bit of an all-or-nothing grudge-match which leads to people either thriving or ragequitting (mostly as a result of the focus on raiding). Perhaps this will allow for a slightly less intense style of play as well.

[reasons 34]

I don't normally wade in on these forums, but... I have to agree with Wraithglow on this one.

After waiting patiently for months for the PVP changes to be implemented, my initial reaction was outrage at this "fix". I thought why have I been paying and playing a game for those months when I could've just gone to Epic for a 'quick' fix.

However after having thought about it further and seen the bigger picture, this could be the first of further changes, building things up slowly.

Everyone rages when a major change comes along and it's bugged or doesn't function as expected. Give the guy a break, he does major changes - everyone angry, tries taking small steps - everyone still angry. Can't win!

Personal opinion: I am glad to finally be able to PVP outside the small HotA zone without penalties. I'm not happy with the non-raiding system at present, but I am hopeful that can changed in the near future, or at a set point to allow deed builders a chance to populate the server if they so desire to.

As suggested lets test drive this new ruleset and provide feedback (constructive or otherwise) for further developments.

[Aristia 37]

I'm not currently a PvP'er, but I think this is a sensible move - we always complain about rolf jumping all in with an idea, without warning, and it being full of bugs as a result. For once, he is taking it one step at a time, and you guys are complaining? As vroom has pointed out, he says "for now" raiding is disallowed.

Also i'm interested to see how the focus on raiding is changed by this part:

I've always felt, as an observer, that pvp seems to be a bit of an all-or-nothing grudge-match which leads to people either thriving or ragequitting (mostly as a result of the focus on raiding). Perhaps this will allow for a slightly less intense style of play as well.

I'm not entirely sure how much you have PvP'd, but nearly all of it is either focused around a object such as the White Light, or a deed. HotA has to date, never drawn any real pvp of note, it seems you don't understand why we are against the inability of damaging stuff, its very easy to just drop a deed and build a writ 100 tiles from your enemy, and harrass them endlessly, and when any opposition arrives? sit in your writ and afk.

We're also impatient because we've been waiting 7 months for any changes, PvP has been dead for 7 months, i think we've waited long enough, this is not PvP, this is whoever can gank the random guy as his between deeds, this never happens on Wild, therefore, PvP will be essentially non existant. Wild has always been full blown raiding, those who couldn't deal with the possibility of raiding left when Rolf gave them the free option to do so, to add in this code and rule makes zero sense, it just makes PvP incentives non existant. The defender has immunity from PvP, thats not Wild.

[whykillme 1,621]

Is there any update on when the borders will be closed?

My priest is on Wild used by someone else and i do want him back before that happens...

[Jools 74]

Its a start, but i really hope i dont have to wait another 7 months just to actually be able to raid villages on wild. By that time ill be long gone from wurm.

[McDaniel 342]

Lets pvp!

Ha i hide behind a wall!

awww lets go home...

PvP is back?

Its even worse then before, now we can't even go outlaw and catapult down stuff...

All the waiting for this stupid é§"'§èé('è!é'§!"§(

[McDaniel 342]

Please Explain to me how Raiding helped keep more players having deeds and playing PvP? From everything I have witnessed the only thing it does is reduce player population and deeds. Players still have to travel and do things and PvP will be enabled. All this change does with the walls and deeds is give those who do not want to lose everything a chance to PvP and have their Castle. It could work and you might see more players making deeds on Chaos after the changes are said to be permanent. I know people will not move if they think more and more changes are coming. I say give it a chance and a tweak if needed, but the ruleset has to be finalized soon.

The 2 most fun things about wild where raiding/defending and going towerbashing.

Since there are no kingdoms towerbashing is kinda useless and now we can't even raid... this is sad, so sad and we waited soooo long...

[McDaniel 342]

Yeah you will have some of those players who do not PvP at all as well as some who PvP some of the time and those who PvP more often. That can only lead to more Players and try to remember Chaos has some of the best skilled fighters in the Game of Wurm. This can only be a good thing as it gives people a reason to build on the server and will add to the population and PvP as well. So what if there are some players hiding behind walls forever that is their loss in reality.

Personally I was for all out FAA and see what happens to Chaos from there just to give it one last chance.

If Chaos is constantly being changed forever it takes away from the game as well as keeps players from committing to playing and living there. I hope this next set of changes is the last set of changes and the Server can move on with the ruleset it has so Rolf can spend more time getting the New Changes and Graphics Updates ready.

If people don't want to pvp there are 4 other servers to chose from...

[Fooligun 591]

If people don't want to pvp there are 4 other servers to chose from...

Were meant to be adding population to chaos, not telling them to go elsewhere.

The 2 most fun things about wild where raiding/defending and going towerbashing.

Since there are no kingdoms towerbashing is kinda useless and now we can't even raid... this is sad, so sad and we waited soooo long...

Towerbashing was fun? Sure it had a thrill but spending hours and hours bashing towers is not what I call "ideal", as said for raiding and defending it was also boring alot of the time especially with the new "super" deeds.

All in all wild needed/needs change and something different, as stated by rolf "Full PvP will always be available on Epic where the code supports it." With this we have something new and different to try and see how it goes.

Full raiding will only ever drive new folk away/casual players leaving the "hard core" folk who are currently there sat in massive fortresses and raiding those with smaller deeds