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Joanavon

Refining And Balancing The Epic Cluster

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This suggestion was mixed in with another thread involving the addition of more chaos servers to the freedom cluster (Bad idea)

But i had one to improve the currrent situation and direction of the Epic cluster as a whole and the balance and relationship between the 3 Home servers (serenity, Desolation and Affliction) and Elevation.

The general feeling alot of people on epic are feeling is that things on epic are on the decline both on elevation and the home servers. activity levels on both are declining, PvP is becoming stale on elevation while the flow of new players into the Home servers seems to be dwindling and exits are increasing.

Currently there is really nothing on or about elevation that will attract new settlers to it from the home servers and its quickly becoming stale and listless like a game that's long ago been played out with all the major players camped in their power bases with little hope or desire to see that upended. There's not enough chaos, uncertainty or dynamic change on a large scale to keep that stale fortress vs. fortress dynamic from naturally settling in.

We need something to break up and keep stirred up the windtunnel of change. Both constructive and destructive. To break the fortress mentality as well as the fortresses themselves sooner or later. Things like natural disasters. Valari mob invasions, meteor strikes, select area crop/tree/bush deaths. Magic divine events on the destructive side and then artifact duplicate drops (artifacts must only last X time no recharges), adamantium/glittersteel/high ql steel/enchanted item drops or hidden cashes that respawn to keep the pace up, magic divine assistance. On the constructive side.

Also the relationship between the Home servers and Elevation is dysfunctional. In reality the home servers are a near copy of elevation only alot safer with some minor and largely unhindering differences. As a home server resident since epics launch I don't suggest substantial nerfs or further restrictions to the home servers with glee. or lightly But the fact is in order for the home servers to sustain success the system and their relationship with elevation must be sustainable.

There needs to be more things that are elevation exclusive or unhandicapped to provide a meaningful and attractive reason to take the risk and jump over from a home server to residing on elevation. The only thing I could think of that fits that need without making the home servers unlivable is the priests and their spells as well as meditation. They are widely used and valued highly and thus would provide that carrot to entice hommies over.

While at the same time keeping the home servers able to do what they do best. Casual light PvP, a perfect starting place for new people and a semisafe place to conduct trade, hunting, "carebearing" and other activites much more dangerous on elevation.

Basically i suggest:

*Nerfing the favor/power/cast ability of all priests on any home server by 1/3 to 1/2 of the current levels. priests on elevation would remain unchanged.

*Either removing meditation from the home servers or limiting the progression to level 6 or 7

*Nerfing the enchantment on any weapons or equipment brought onto a home server from elevation by 1/2 to 2/3 but restoring it to it's otherwise normal level upon returning to elevation. (possible exemptions: Lurker Pendulums, maybe Coc or Woa tools i'm not sure.

*Bascially carving the magic/spell content of the game as being upper tier and thus most fitting and best used on elevation while at the same time protecting the Home servers from being hapless priest target practice.

*Making all artifacts have X number of charges AND once found have X amount of time to be used before disappearing and being rediscover able again by anyone. No more recharging, No more collecting/Chesting artifacts. Especially if one group has neigh ALL of them like that.

*Revamp the missions so that they routinely cause large scale effects on elevation. Meteorite stikes, earthquakes, Plant/crop death zones, Valari Mob invasions, Large land Terra-forming events, glimmersteel/adamantium sprinkles, ect.

The result:

A) The changes only effect priest characters directly. Personally i'd consider priests (who can only become priests on elevation) to be end game or upper tier content. To have a sustainable balance the home servers cant have literally all levels of content included with elevation missing the realistic begining game space for new players. It makes elevation irrelevant and really just a place you go priest up at and return to home. It would also protect the home servers from becoming fodder for high level content by nerfing elevation players spell/magic abilities when on a home server al la CR nerf style. This suggestion would preserve the CR nerf, the fertile space for new epic players to start and become involved in epic long term and basically define what the home servers are best at and give elevation what it needs to define what its best at.

B.) Other then priest/magic/spell content the rest of the crafting/fighting/farming/mining and creation content remains the same as it should. I'd even argue for a raise in the home server ore cap from 50 to 70ql. The home servers would then become a semi-safe pvp lite area where new players and elevation players looking for some quiet time can experience PvP/thievery and playing without freedoms constraints in a place where they wont be steamrolled or have the fear of such keeping them off epic. Also rewarding a home server for contributing to a mission by spawning Valari mobs on that server has to stop. in fact stop spawning them or nerf the ones on home serves since they are a considerable danger given the probably average fighting skill and gear on the home servers.

C) Elevation would then become the place the upper level content is mixed with both the chaos and dynamic energy from PvP but also from PvE events designed to seed continuous new PvP chances and elements and keep that seeping staleness of over fortressing from styming further chances of conflict. Missions would come in here and need to be made relevant in the present and on the ground not on some moon game board that feels completely unrelated and irrelevant to actually playing on epic.

Ex. 1. Meteorite lands near the mongol main deed demolishing a large section of their outer walls and flattening the terrain leaving an open path into the deed for a quick and aware enemy before the wall can be replaced.

Or

2. A large spire springs from the ground near New Tuscany with a sizable gittersteel chunk on its peak. A group effort will be needed to reach it but its out in the open and easy poaching.

D) Making artifacts rediscoverable and making it impossible to collect and lock them all up (especially by one single group) they provide a continuous goal and activity in finding them as well as almost mandating their liberal use when found especially on the battlefield.

Edited by Joanavon

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Without digging through past posts, were you not one of the biggest opponants of removing the CR reduction on Home servers?

I'm guessing everything was fine on Epic until the numbers dwindled so now people will now toss out a ton of ideas to try and entice people to play on Epic.

I'm thinking like any game out there if the hook didnt set when people tried Epic on release, changing tons of things will make little difference one way or another, unless get cake or pie everytime you log in.

Every reason I see why Chaos must be closed could also be applied to Epic, or at a minimum condensing it to one server, if after that point it doesnt increase then you have Chaos 2.0, the biggest killer to Wurm PvP is the entire combat system, I've heard people over the years tell me I just didnt get the complexity of it, while I know it takes skill to learn its in and outs, end of the day you have very little imput and itsa not very exciting besides the rush of being chased and chasing others. You wouldnt see standing room only around the Wurm booth at E3 if was displayed.

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Without digging through past posts, were you not one of the biggest opponants of removing the CR reduction on Home servers?

I'm guessing everything was fine on Epic until the numbers dwindled so now people will now toss out a ton of ideas to try and entice people to play on Epic.

I'm thinking like any game out there if the hook didnt set when people tried Epic on release, changing tons of things will make little difference one way or another, unless get cake or pie everytime you log in.

Every reason I see why Chaos must be closed could also be applied to Epic, or at a minimum condensing it to one server, if after that point it doesnt increase then you have Chaos 2.0, the biggest killer to Wurm PvP is the entire combat system, I've heard people over the years tell me I just didnt get the complexity of it, while I know it takes skill to learn its in and outs, end of the day you have very little imput and itsa not very exciting besides the rush of being chased and chasing others. You wouldnt see standing room only around the Wurm booth at E3 if was displayed.

I was and still am one of if not the loudest and most persistent supporter of the CR Nerf on the home servers and my suggestion keeps the current CR nerf in place as it is still needed and will continue to be needed to make the home servers into the PvP lite sector that they currently are.

I'll agree on the combat system and as is no secret though i live on epic i don't really pvp ore even fight with mobs. I have like 11 fs and have never found the combat itself to be interesting or a reason for playing it's the community, reduced grind and unrestricted play style that keeps me on epic and not on freedom. But that dosen't mean that PvP isn't very important if not the central theme of Epic's cluster and the cluster needs to be tweaked and rebalanced to make it a sustainable flow of players as well as keeping things from going stale.

Ask the major PvPers on elevation (and my most ardent fans lol) what the biggest issue on elevation is and the one I keep hearing is Stagnation/boredom/inactivity all three acting as a drag on PvP opportunities.

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Try making Idea's that will Improve Elevation without nerfing the Home Servers otherwise you are asking for a lower player count real fast when you start changing core elements of gameplay at this time for those currently on Home Servers. If your goal if to further reduce the population of Epic the things you suggest would accomplish that

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Try making Idea's that will Improve Elevation without nerfing the Home Servers otherwise you are asking for a lower player count real fast when you start changing core elements of gameplay at this time for those currently on Home Servers. If your goal if to further reduce the population of Epic the things you suggest would accomplish that

Posteh made a thread suggesting various things related to buffing Elevation, without nerfing Home servers. But as usual, that turned into a massive argument and went nowhere.


/>http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/61637-buff-elevation/

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Just make it more appealing to Freedomites to come over and join in, e.g. being able to play on the same character in both clusters at a time rather than having to take your main out of commission on Freedom just to go be a noob on Epic. Remove the 1h cooldown on using the portal. There are many Freedomites who only refuse to play on Epic because it means either taking their main out of commission or premming another character as an alt.

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Is the hour cool down really an issue for people? I mean it would seem to me at least that when your port over your probably going to be there at least an hour but if it is an issue then reduce it as needed.

The home servers have alot to offer the freedomites who are looking for wide open coastal land, unique massive volcanic island packed with mobs, Serenity at least still retains it's uniques (dragons, troll king, goblin leader, forest giant, etc.) along with large open tracts of land in just about every shade desirable from steppe to tundra to island to sky scraping mountain tops. So for freedomites looking to get their hands on some prime land while still in a semi-safe environment and with a faster skill gain and skill curve for reduced grinding and more playing to boot.

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The main problem is all the horror stories we hear on Freedom, about people getting PKd by their own kingdom, having their noobshacks levelled by catapults fired from their own side, that kinda thing. Plus, from my own personal experience, the people on many of those servers are so tightly wound from fear of raids that they can be very... unwelcoming.

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I'll agree this has been a problem at least as far as the unnessicary paranoia is concerned. But the reality is that in the last couple months the amount of "raids" from outside groups coming onto say serenity has plummeted from a reality of life there to an infrequent occurrence and when they do happen they are 9/10 after the large deeds where they know the best loot is at and the best drains are going to be. They don't go around assaulting peoples homes steads and hauling off with their string and cotton seeds. They just breeze by those because even though they are less well defended or or built it still takes time and effort to get in and during that time they are vulnerable to counter attack while being stationary. i've lived most of my time on epic near the serenity Spawn deed of Strongbox and even though there have been several raids through the area (The actual Strongbox deed is protected by 80Ql Gm built walls with max templars) i've never had them even bother with my place since it's not a loot pinata.

In the entire 7 months now that i've been on epic i've been killed by someone a grand total one 1 time and it was because i was aft on the water where the raiders typically row by. Other then that there's never even been an incident where it was a danger of happening and this is coming from someone who is often outspoken against the desires or changes requested by the "Elite PvPers" and had literally 11 fight skill at most.

As for issues with other residents of the server the only times that has really happened is when someone has been being a real ass and/or burglarizing people repeatedly and is finally shot down by the angry mob of neighbors. other then that people live and let live and have their own things going on and don't have time for that nonsense.

But it is important for everyone currently living on epic (home servers especially) to be mindful that we need new people to be sustainable and being unwelcoming is unacceptable for the server as a whole and by and large people are helpful and kind and generous to new players looking to reside here.

Edited by Joanavon

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Posteh made a thread suggesting various things related to buffing Elevation, without nerfing Home servers. But as usual, that turned into a massive argument and went nowhere.

http://forum.wurmonl...buff-elevation/

Lol yeah. The main contention there turned into the CR Nerf which for me and alot of home server residents is a must have. But i think shifting Priests and spells and the magic of wurm to elevation and the addition of the Chaos generating PvE and Natural events elements would give elevation a significant boost in appeal without stripping the home servers of the environment they perform best in and really need to grow.

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Try making Idea's that will Improve Elevation without nerfing the Home Servers otherwise you are asking for a lower player count real fast when you start changing core elements of gameplay at this time for those currently on Home Servers. If your goal if to further reduce the population of Epic the things you suggest would accomplish that

The reality is that there's nothing really we can add to elevation that the home servers don't already have a variant of in their safer environment. There is a fundamental unbalance in the focus of the home servers and elevation that has by and large made elevation irrelevant. Without changing that i don't see what can be added to elevation that is not in one facet or another available on the home servers in a much safer environment. These changes would preserve the safer lower key tone and situation on the home server and at the same time give elevation the high ticket items it needs to justify the risk. Plus deal with the stagnation issue that is a separate one from the balance one.

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The reality is that there's nothing really we can add to elevation that the home servers don't already have a variant of in their safer environment. There is a fundamental unbalance in the focus of the home servers and elevation that has by and large made elevation irrelevant. Without changing that i don't see what can be added to elevation that is not in one facet or another available on the home servers in a much safer environment. These changes would preserve the safer lower key tone and situation on the home server and at the same time give elevation the high ticket items it needs to justify the risk. Plus deal with the stagnation issue that is a separate one from the balance one.

The LAST thing we need during the summer is major over hauls to Epic. Rolf is working on Chaos lets see what that turns out like first before messing with more players and servers.

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The LAST thing we need during the summer is major over hauls to Epic. Rolf is working on Chaos lets see what that turns out like first before messing with more players and servers.

You're seriously saying no to changes and improvements? Let's NOT just sit back and see what happens to Chaos, let's generate useful ideas that Rolf can use to improve all of the servers, including Elevation.

Personally, I think it would improve the situation to have different skill curves on elevation vs the epic home servers... essentially reducing your effectiveness on the home servers slightly. It wouldn't have to even be noticeable at low levels. At higher skills however, it would make a difference and encourage people to make the move. For example:

10 18

20 34

30 48

40 60

50 70

60 78

70 84

80 88

90 90

(after 90 it could be 1 for 1, like freedom)

Edited by ianrose

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You're seriously saying no to changes and improvements? Let's NOT just sit back and see what happens to Chaos, let's generate useful ideas that Rolf can use to improve all of the servers, including Elevation.

Personally, I think it would improve the situation to have different skill curves on elevation vs the epic home servers... essentially reducing your effectiveness on the home servers slightly. It wouldn't have to even be noticeable at low levels. At higher skills however, it would make a difference and encourage people to make the move. For example:

10 18

20 34

30 48

40 60

50 70

60 78

70 84

80 88

90 90

(after 90 it could be 1 for 1, like freedom)

I am saying its summer and people leave this time of year every year and to go and start messing around with core gameplay stuff like what you guys are talking about is nuts plain and simple. Trying to round about nerf the Home servers like what you are saying is basically trying to remove the CR bonus they have through other means. Like I said before work on what you can add to Elevation right now to give players a reason to go there. Improving on things and Complete Nerfs and changing the Core gameplay is another. If you are trying to make people leave the Home servers these type of changing will help do that. The Home servers should not be increasingly limited to MAKE people move to Elevation. I do not want to end up seeing the Home servers turned into a soft version of GV just so some PvPer's on Elevation can hopefully make people move there.

I listened to all the cries for newer PvP server over the couple years as WIld died off and guess what basically thats what EPIC was. So it was made and proved once again that the way Wurm Hardcore PvP is does not hold a crowd for any length of time. They came they conquered and they moved on again. I remember when Epic opened I watched how some people were forced out of Elevation as well as the Home servers time and time again. I watched the rapid changing to players skills and gameplay the first month as well as they left. Sure its fun to feast off new blood or those weaker than you, but there is a price for this. Less players come and more players leave. ( we have seen this before btw.)

Sure now months later you can say, "but no one is here anymore we need to do something! The Epic server has less players because of the way things went down and trying to Nerf Home servers or trick players back into coming with any kind of gimmick will not work. And yes we should hold off any major changes to players skills and gameplay during the time when the most players are leaving anyway. Otherwise you could end up with a ghost town of just the F2P and a few others on the Home servers. Not only that some players will simply leave the game completely and not go back to any other server.

You think this is the first time the main hardcore PvP server ran out of PvP and wanted Big Changes to fix it? Check back a few years and look what happend to the original Home servers.....Simply put it was a DISASTER.

Edited by Uberknot

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I am saying its summer and people leave this time of year every year and to go and start messing around with core gameplay stuff like what you guys are talking about is nuts plain and simple. Trying to round about nerf the Home servers like what you are saying is basically trying to remove the CR bonus they have through other means. Like I said before work on what you can add to Elevation right now to give players a reason to go there. Improving on things and Complete Nerfs and changing the Core gameplay is another. If you are trying to make people leave the Home servers these type of changing will help do that. The Home servers should not be increasingly limited to MAKE people move to Elevation. I do not want to end up seeing the Home servers turned into a soft version of GV just so some PvPer's on Elevation can hopefully make people move there.

I listened to all the cries for newer PvP server over the couple years as WIld died off and guess what basically thats what EPIC was. So it was made and proved once again that the way Wurm Hardcore PvP is does not hold a crowd for any length of time. They came they conquered and they moved on again. I remember when Epic opened I watched how some people were forced out of Elevation as well as the Home servers time and time again. I watched the rapid changing to players skills and gameplay the first month as well as they left. Sure its fun to feast off new blood or those weaker than you, but there is a price for this. Less players come and more players leave. ( we have seen this before btw.)

Sure now months later you can say, "but no one is here anymore we need to do something! The Epic server has less players because of the way things went down and trying to Nerf Home servers or trick players back into coming with any kind of gimmick will not work. And yes we should hold off any major changes to players skills and gameplay during the time when the most players are leaving anyway. Otherwise you could end up with a ghost town of just the F2P and a few others on the Home servers. Not only that some players will simply leave the game completely and not go back to any other server.

You think this is the first time the main hardcore PvP server ran out of PvP and wanted Big Changes to fix it? Check back a few years and look what happend to the original Home servers.....Simply put it was a DISASTER.

What your prescribing is an underhanded slow death for Epic. Straight up.

On top of that your attempts to muddle and obfuscate the issue by confusing the Epic home servers with the pre-freedom home servers is both erroneous and disingenuous as is labeling me, or anyone who plays on epic like it do as "Hardcore PvPers". As anyone remotely active on serenity or epic at large can probably attest i'm about as close to hardcore pvper as I am to getting mining skill 100. That is never.

Thus far you've not actually provided any solutions or suggestions of your own other then "Epic is dying don't change anything"

Tweaking the Skill gain and curve is an interesting idea that is worth investigation and perhaps if done right implementation.

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