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Stargrace

Patch Notes: May 4th 2012

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I believe you can still destroy them if you've got a maul, but the mayor no longer has the ability to insta-smash boats that are on the mayor's deed and do not belong to the village.

So, if someone parks their boat at your deed and you don't like it, you don't get the usual 3-hit-destroy, but you can still grab a maul and have at it.

You believe? You mean you don't actually know? Then why post at all?

Bare with me, I got a couple more...if you can still bash it, why not with the mayor bonus? Bashing a boat with 50 hits, as opposed to 4 or 5, is different somehow?

Come on man...this has all the makings of a BS update brought on by some cry baby that lost a boat after leaving it on someone's deed they ticked off.

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On freedom, people should not be able to bash a boat at all (they are not allowed to do anyway, GMs are supposed to do the cleanup)

On wild and epic people shut be freely able to bash away.

As for Mayors I'm undecided, it is on their deed, but unlike walls, that does not make it their boat.

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I believe you can still destroy them if you've got a maul, but the mayor no longer has the ability to insta-smash boats that are on the mayor's deed and do not belong to the village.

So, if someone parks their boat at your deed and you don't like it, you don't get the usual 3-hit-destroy, but you can still grab a maul and have at it.

You believe? You mean you don't actually know? Then why post at all?

Bare with me, I got a couple more...if you can still bash it, why not with the mayor bonus? Bashing a boat with 50 hits, as opposed to 4 or 5, is different somehow?

Come on man...this has all the makings of a BS update brought on by some cry baby that lost a boat after leaving it on someone's deed they ticked off.

I'm trying to explain the update as I read it and you're insulting people and complaining.  Quit playing if you're so pissed off at what's being changed.

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I'm trying to explain the update as I read it and you're insulting people and complaining.  Quit playing if you're so  off at what's being changed.

So, you have no answers then?

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You believe? You mean you don't actually know? Then why post at all?

Apparently you don't know otherwise, you just assyoume, but keep raging, so why post anymore?

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I believe you can still destroy them if you've got a maul, but the mayor no longer has the ability to insta-smash boats that are on the mayor's deed and do not belong to the village.

So, if someone parks their boat at your deed and you don't like it, you don't get the usual 3-hit-destroy, but you can still grab a maul and have at it.

You believe? You mean you don't actually know? Then why post at all?

Bare with me, I got a couple more...if you can still bash it, why not with the mayor bonus? Bashing a boat with 50 hits, as opposed to 4 or 5, is different somehow?

Come on man...this has all the makings of a BS update brought on by some cry baby that lost a boat after leaving it on someone's deed they ticked off.

~The numbers 50, 4 and 5 are indeed different and are not the same.

Thank you Girlinhat for your insight and information on this change and pay no mind to the erratic, irrational, negative outbursts of some one poster because the rest of us do appreciate it.

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~The numbers 50, 4 and 5 are indeed different and are not the same.

Thank you Girlinhat for your insight and information on this change and pay no mind to the erratic, irrational, negative outbursts of some one poster because the rest of us do appreciate it.

I honestly hate addressing anything you write in these forums because it's usually void of knowledge with the topic at hand, but here goes. No, it's not different in the fact that the outcome is the same...the boat is destroyed. So, whether it happens in 4 hits or 40, it makes no difference. Hence the questions. The issue wasn't the numbers, it was the bashing of the boat. I doubt you'll understand any better though Joan.

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If your house decays in 10 minutes or 10 months is that the same thing?  After all, the outcome is the same, right?  You're one to talk about "void of knowledge" though.  You have posted exactly zero constructive words in this thread, and all that you have done is hate on others and generally be a raging ######.

Thank you Girlinhat for your insight and information on this change and pay no mind to the erratic, irrational, negative outbursts of some one poster because the rest of us do appreciate it.

I have no actual insight on this.  I don't have a deed nor do I want to risk one of my boats to test how this works.  But you read the change log, and this is what it seems to imply.  It pretty much says, explicitly, "special mayor bashing no longer applies to non-village carts and boats" but it doesn't say anything about stopping regular bashing.  So, logically, one may assume that the regular rules of "I've got a maul" still apply, but the special rules of "I've got a maul and I'm the mayor" don't apply as strictly anymore.

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Some of you mention that the boat needs special consideration because it isn't necessarily the deed owner's boat, claiming that the mayor shouldn't have rights to remove said boat in 4 hits because it's not his boat. Yet it's quite alright to remove the same boat in 40 hits, as if it makes a difference somehow that way. It's still not the deed owner's boat. What kind of logic is this?

Girlinhat, your house analogy is apples and oranges. Decay has nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about removal of unwanted items from a deed by a mayor. However, I will say it's refreshing to see someone finally admit they have no insight on a topic after a couple pages of making comments and I'm glad you can admit you contributed exactly nothing to this discussion. If this offends you in some way, I certainly do not apologize considering all you did was further muddy the already confusing waters surrounding this topic.

How about we frame this in terms that might not have been though about up to this point. Unless our wonderful new PR can enlighten us to some of the (apparently secret) conversations that took place on this topic, I propose we look at yet another way this change can effect mayors.

Let's say you invite a couple noobs into the village. And like most noobs, that boat building infatuation takes hold. Again, like most noobs, they leave the game after a month and you are left with yet another couple of rowboats on deed that you have no control over. The way things are now, you are left with a menagerie of crappy boats, or you can break out the large maul and spend the rest of the night surfing the web while you stack destroy actions. Attention Girlinhat: This is where your house analogy fits in. A mayor has the bonus permissions to bash down a noob's whole abandoned house on his own deed, but doesn't have the ability to get rid of that same noob's boat? At least on Epic. I'm not sure how this plays out on Freedom for mayors.

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I'm going to ignore your large and *ahem* let's call it "scathing" personal attack there, but I will say that you're not contributing either.

But now, let's look at the actual knowledge, shall we?

Destroying foreign large carts and boats are no longer possible by the mayor of a settlement.

We have three basic parts here.  Two, depending on how you view it.  "Foreign large carts and boats" and "mayor of a settlement" are the two that matter.  "Destroying" is the third but that can be debating.  Either way, we have a very simple statement that follows with very simple conclusions.

1: A mayor may not destroy a foreign boat that is on the mayor's deed.

If you look at that, and look at what isn't specified, we can make some very safe assumptions.

2: Anyone may destroy foreign boats on any deed - so long as the guards are not an issue.

3: "Foreign" signifies "not a member of the deed".

4: Mayors may still mayor-bash domestic large carts and boats.

So, for your example, if you invited a dozen noobs over, and the each made a dozen boats, then you would have no problem.  These would be "domestic boats" - that is to say, the noobs are part of your village and therefor the boats are part of your village and you get mayor-bashing privileges to destroy them in 2 hits.

If you invited one noob over, did NOT make them part of your village, and they built one boat, then you would have a problem because that is not your village's boat and therefor you don't get mayor-bashing privileges.

Or, to put it in more understandable terms, "The mayor's power only extends to what the mayor owns."  A deed border is not some mystical all-power zone where the deed holder becomes a god-king and can dictate whatever they want.  If someone submits to the mayor's power (ie, becomes a villager) then they give god-king power to the mayor, but if someone does not acknowledge the mayor's power (ie, the rest of the server) then the mayor gains no control over their stuff.

As a practical example, let's take Serenity.  The inland lakes are rather reliant upon the raider's canals for transportation, as rowboats and sailboats can glide over and larger boats can be dragged over the shallow area.  As it is, passage is free so long as the canals are not packed with dirt or anything.

If the mayor cannot insta-kill foreign boats: Passage is easy.

If the mayor can insta-kill foreign boats: Someone could set a token on shore and stand in the river with a large maul - it's shallow enough to stand in.  As soon as someone comes by, the mayor could then use the mayoral super-powers to bash any boat that tried to pass through, rendering all travel impossible so long as this person were online.

That's what it basically comes down to, preventing the mayor from abusing deed rights and giving some power to the common players to keep their stuff a little safer.  If it's your stuff on your lawn, then it's your stuff.  If it's someone else's stuff on your lawn, then you don't get the power to instantly destroy it.

It also means that if you attempt a raid, and you get killed and your boat is left on an enemy dock, that it's possible to go retrieve it.  If the mayor can destroy anything they want, then that boat would be lost for good, no matter how good of a boat lock you installed.

Now, if you're going to respond, JackBurton, please respond to what I've said.  Let's just be done with personal attacks and focus on the actual content here, shall we?

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For what it is worth:

My coastal deed was cluttered by abandoned ships. Some of which were directly in the way of deed improvements I wanted to perform, and some just an eyesore. Corbitas with approximately half of the length of their ship sitting on top of the dock blocking visuals, others sitting under water due to lack of maintenance. In general long gone players with ships left behind, or players that have not even looked at their vessel in the months since I have had the deed. In every case a polite request via the help desk has resulted in the removal of said vessels. We are not talking immediate but most definitely in a timely manner. The response from the game team has been courteous, professional, and appreciated by me.

Having said that I would like to point out that deed holders on coastal property are powerless to control the land they have purchased and pay to maintain. Or specifically the deed tiles underwater.  A deed owner/mayor can usually restrict and control any structure on their deed. And correct me if I am wrong for I have not actually done this, but a mayor can bash down any offending structure they may have on their deeds correct? Not the case on the coastline. Anyone that wants to can plant a structure/vessel anywhere they want to, at any time they want to, and leave it there for as long as they want to. Thankfully most people are considerate of the deed holder’s needs and desires. They ask and do not assume, but that is not the case all the time by a long shot. I only mention this because as my first deed I wanted to be on the coastline. I assumed I would have the same control exercised by my previous village mayor over the deed I was part of. Well it was my assumption, and my noob mistake, and I am living with it. But if anything the powers of the deed holder should be increased not diminished. At least the person that has invested the silver, the work, and the pride in their coastal deed should have the same level of control any inland deed holder has over their property. How this is done in a balanced way to best reflect this amazing game we are part of will take some effort I am sure. But the issue of control a coastal deed holder has over their deeded tiles really needs to be addressed. If it had been addressed in the beginning at least one specific line of the patch notes would not even be listed, nor an issue needing to be resolved.

Thanks

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So, for your example, if you invited a dozen noobs over, and the each made a dozen boats, then you would have no problem.  These would be "domestic boats" - that is to say, the noobs are part of your village and therefor the boats are part of your village and you get mayor-bashing privileges to destroy them in 2 hits.

Seriously, do you have ANY clue what you are talking about?  I cannot bash a village mate's boat on my deed that is in a writ that I own.  You can only bash your OWN boats and carts.  Not village mates, not friends, only your own.

And where the hell is this destroy boats in 2 hits coming from?  Have you ever actually bashed something before??  You'll do like 10 damage per hit on average for a crap ql boat WITH the mayor bonus...

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So, for your example, if you invited a dozen noobs over, and the each made a dozen boats, then you would have no problem.  These would be "domestic boats" - that is to say, the noobs are part of your village and therefor the boats are part of your village and you get mayor-bashing privileges to destroy them in 2 hits.

Seriously, do you have ANY clue what you are talking about?  I cannot bash a village mate's boat on my deed that is in a writ that I own.  You can only bash your OWN boats and carts.  Not village mates, not friends, only your own.

And where the hell is this destroy boats in 2 hits coming from?  Have you ever actually bashed something before??  You'll do like 10 damage per hit on average for a crap ql boat WITH the mayor bonus...

Wouldn't that be because Chaos is a freedom isle and it's not allowed in the freedom ruleset?

I've not played on a PvP ruleset server long enough to have a boat park on deed, so can't say for certain, but I'd wager that is the reason why.

As for the 2-hit thing, perhaps he is basing it on wooden fences. I know I can 2-hit a decent ql wooden fence, even without using the best quality maul nor the highest strength. Not that far-fetched to assume boats would have similar tolerances, being made of wood.

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Remind me again why we need someone to do PR then if half the decisions are made behind closed doors with hardly an explanation.

To make the rest of us feel warm and fuzzy about the backroom deals that only benefit one or two people?  :)

To be fair, Zcul and the art team tend to use the forums for some discussion and feedback.  It's a welcome breath of fresh air!  And with Stargrace contributing where she can (except with boneheaded statements like what the quote references), there is potential that the current situation will improve.  The biggest first step would be to at least explain why some changes are made, particularly ones that are not requested in any recognizable public way and appear to negatively affect just about everyone, such as the horse aggro, boats in carts, etc.

The problem is that as long as it doesn't happen beginning at the top, it doesn't really matter in the long run.  I guess it's easier to just let the forum posters turn on each other rather than have a focus for their complaints.

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