Have you ever considered how lame the door/gate mechanics are?

[Tosti 1]

Yes, they are lame. And the strangest thing is, nobody ever complained about it. That is going to change. When you think about it, how they work, and how they are used, it's confusing as hell. Since all multiple wurm logic threads are popping up, this one should definately not be forgotten amongst them.

What about it?

The main annoyences lay in the fact that locks/doors and ondeed gates can beclosed instantly the moment when someone clicks a few buttons in his inventory.

Also acces properties of buildings and towns are bloody annoying. It's best to sketch a scene here.

  "You are in the wild. Hunting for some loot and rank. You see Jimmy. You want to kill Jimmy. However, after a 5 minute chase, running 3 tiles behind Jimmy all the time, he reaches his house. Jimmy runs though the door, and you following him, bounch off the door."

So what is wrong here. Jimmy ran though a physicaly locked door. If the door were to be unlocked. You would be able to pass aswell.

I think, even if you are the owner, that you must open the door/lock with a key a simple right click. You do need to be the owner, or having permission to do so. Opening and locking a door/gate should require some time, for gates, specialy palisade, it should take more time. You cannot open or lock doors while hurting. You cannot open or lock doors while moving.

Wat, deedz?

As for gates on deed. These can be opened and locked by both the spirit guards and the villagers. But same as doors, it should take time. Although you don't get a nondropable key, for gates you have to do it the old fasioned way. Copy the keys.

Doors arn't made of stone

The doors them selfes are strange aswell. Take a ql 90 stone house for example. It doesn't matter if you were to bash the door or the wall. The damage taken is the same. Also, if you build a door(doorwall) it strangely takes 20 bricks and 20 mortar, where is the wood?

Instead I think you should place the door afterwards. You would also get the option of placing diffrent kinds of doors, such as, wooden door, reinforced door (wooden with iron/steel ribbons), iron/steel door. Maybe more to add there. The doors can be placed after finishing the building.

Push the forge against the door, that will hold them zombies out!

Additionaly, people can barricade their doors. Simply by adding, dunno, 3x planks, or shafts. That should either make the door more sturdy (taking less damage).

Or should repair around 50 damage. Why 50, why so much. That because it can be done only 1 time. Repairing the door while bashed would only incrase the lameness. Also, you can only remove the barricade from inside and removing it should take loads of time. Otherwise people will be like adding barricade for 50 dmg repair, removing it, rebuilding for more repair, ect.

And people can't barricade from outside, aka sealing people in.

Gates could propably be barricaded aswell.

Mine doors

Are lame too, should recieve the same treatment as writ managed doors above.

Lockpicking !!111einz

Locking picking. I could make about 4 pages of this crap. So I think it deserves it's own tread.

[milp 1]

I have mentioned it before:

http://wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=6333.0

I really think doors need to be reworked so they work based on how doors irl work. Not in 100% detail, but at least in a way that lets you control them as you would in real life, opening and closing them manually etc.

[Guest Awesomefusion]

Mine doors need to be removed on wild

10 mins to make if you have decent stone cutting, hours and hours to bash down for 1 person

[Gavin 971]

Firstly let me say i agree completely it's far too easy to dart in and out of gatehouses and alot of people suchas myself use that to our advantage when defending towns.

However some of the stuff being proposed is a bit much, Sure make it take a few seconds to get back inside a door if you are being attacked or have been attacked by a enemy player recently, However making enemies be able to wander in if the gate is open really is far too much, It would make raiding far too easy imo. Especially if you had alts in the town.

I think making keys and stuff is too much, Just add a timer to opening gates if enemy is within 4-5 tiles of that gate. The delay should be like 15 seconds or something, Nothing too insane as making it so if someone steps one foot out the gate they cant get back in is stupid. Especially if you just add that timer to every single gate, Towns like Kyara that have millions of palisades on deed to add extra defense would get royally screwed over, We are not the only town to do stuff like that either.

I also think mine doors are stupid, They are easy to plop down all over the map, Not only are they a ###### to find because they have the same texture as the rock face, They cant be bashed fast and not only that cant even be bashed by priests (which most of the fighters on wild are now lol)

Priests should be able to bash them, They should use a significantly different texture, And they should be alot weaker.

[milp 1]

Before we can have a mine door nerf or remove them completely altogether, we need to see some facts about those doors and why they are needed:

- There is no way of having a gate in the water, so mine doors are the only choice to seal a water mine.

- breaking a mine open can be much more rewarding than picking or smashing a house door. Especially since inside a mine there are no further doors, so a huuuge mine with a mine door infront would probably really pay out to take a hours to bash.

Those are just the 2 points that came to my mind right now, im sure if i wouldnt be illegaly in the internet in class right now and had time to think about it, i could think of quite some more points that justify the imba-ness of a minedoor.

[Guest Awesomefusion]

They are really OP, maybe there is a reason they shouldn't be in water because it makes it so hard to catapult it (and they should also be able to be catapulted)

[milp 1]

They are really OP, maybe there is a reason they shouldn't be in water because it makes it so hard to catapult it (and they should also be able to be catapulted)

Balancing cant justify not being able to put a door or a structure into water, even though it is just logical (a walled off harbor area for example).

[Guest Awesomefusion]

They are really OP, maybe there is a reason they shouldn't be in water because it makes it so hard to catapult it (and they should also be able to be catapulted)

Balancing cant justify not being able to put a door or a structure into water, even though it is just logical (a walled off harbor area for example).

Yes it can  ???

[Tosti 1]

However some of the stuff being proposed is a bit much, Sure make it take a few seconds to get back inside a door if you are being attacked or have been attacked by a enemy player recently, However making enemies be able to wander in if the gate is open really is far too much, It would make raiding far too easy imo. Especially if you had alts in the town.

I have yet to see someone opening something small as a keyhole and fitting a key in it while having a sword stabbed in their ribs. Being able to catch players outside their homes is hard enough. Catching a player inside an enclosed area is impossible. There are like 6 or more enclosed area within a deed or farm.

Enemies be able to wander in if the gate is open? Makes sense to me. Just close it after you enter it, or have somebody on standby at the door/gate.

You have to explain me what you meant about the alts.

I think making keys and stuff is too much, Just add a timer to opening gates if enemy is within 4-5 tiles of that gate. The delay should be like 15 seconds or something, Nothing too insane as making it so if someone steps one foot out the gate they cant get back in is stupid. Especially if you just add that timer to every single gate, Towns like Kyara that have millions of palisades on deed to add extra defense would get royally screwed over, We are not the only town to do stuff like that either.

As I said, for writ based objects such as houses and mining gets will get you automaticly a nondrop key. Appart for the gates. And I can open a door easiely in 6 seconds, even with freezing hands. I don't think when an enemy is closeby should influence time. Being hurt however.

Every town has multiple gates, I had thought about that. I don't think it can be that hard to use those extra few seconds to open a new route to an area of the town. Your argument is excessive.

I also think mine doors are stupid, They are easy to plop down all over the map, Not only are they a . to find because they have the same texture as the rock face, They cant be bashed fast and not only that cant even be bashed by priests (which most of the fighters on wild are now lol)

Yeah what ever. I placed a few dozens of ql 5 mine doors my self to stock my loot. But ya, there lame.

Priests should be able to bash them, They should use a significantly different texture, And they should be alot weaker.

Wat?

[milp 1]

They are really OP, maybe there is a reason they shouldn't be in water because it makes it so hard to catapult it (and they should also be able to be catapulted)

Balancing cant justify not being able to put a door or a structure into water, even though it is just logical (a walled off harbor area for example).

Yes it can  ???

But if we do that we slowly go towards a simpler game with less complexity, freedom and realism , a simpler mainstream game, and that isn't what wurm is about D:

[Gavin 971]

How something works in real life should not be a good excuse to change something ingame. Balance should be. Just because if you open your door to dodgy people in real life they can walk in, Should not be a good idea to add that ingame.

I agree yes it's near impossible to find someone outside of there home, Hell try it as JK it's even worse, There is like LO and WV to fight, And for BL's its really just the horde and DC, And most of them are smart and dont fight people they know they cant win. At least there is lots of JK newbies for you guys to beat up.

The problem there thou is lack of new players joining MR and BL on wild, And also not enough people joining wild as a whole. Not to much 'Its easy to get into gates'

I understand and agree, Currently defenders have next to no risk of dying unless they are being stupid and not wearing armour or go running out 30 tiles and get footshotted.

But i also disagree when you walk out the gate it should be 100% 'your gunna die just because they have more people than you'. There should always be a advantage over defending than attacking, And I'm not just talking about a respawn point. But yes: It is too overly balanced in defenders favor currently,

You have to explain me what you meant about the alts.

I meant getting a spy-alt into another town and opening the doors open for your main (ENEMY) character to walk up to the token, Then letting him out, If you did this to a less active town they probably would assume you are lockpicking in or something.

The last part was in reply to mine doors being hard to find (same texture as rockface) impossible for priests to bash, And taking a few minutes to create/apply as opposed to hours of destroying

[Tosti 1]

I meant getting a spy-alt into another town and opening the doors open for your main (ENEMY) character to walk up to the token, Then letting him out, If you did this to a less active town they probably would assume you are lockpicking in or something.

Hey, I like that idea. Brings security, intelligence services and spying on a whole new level. But don't think it as an unfair advantage. Infiltrating a town and getting some rights or in this case keys, in order to let enemies in, or sabotage. Beside, if people find out about it, months of working trying to get trusted would vanish. And assuming you would get reported thoughout the kingdom. As alt, it would be useless, wasted time and money, as main, you could always convert.

Awesome idea Gavin lol.

[Ecrir 888]

I meant getting a spy-alt into another town and opening the doors open for your main (ENEMY) character to walk up to the token, Then letting him out, If you did this to a less active town they probably would assume you are lockpicking in or something.

Hey, I like that idea. Brings security, intelligence services and spying on a whole new level. But don't think it as an unfair advantage. Infiltrating a town and getting some rights or in this case keys, in order to let enemies in, or sabotage. Beside, if people find out about it, months of working trying to get trusted would vanish. And assuming you would get reported thoughout the kingdom. As alt, it would be useless, wasted time and money, as main, you could always convert.

Awesome idea Gavin lol.

Not really an awesome idea, you'd just get a lot of distrust started. Villages wouldn't easily accept unknown people at all, since they could be spies. New folks to wurm most likely would have a very hard time to join a village on wild due to this, so they'd have a better shot at a village on one of the home servers.

Because something like this could create a lot of distrust and paranoia amongst players, especially towards the new and unknown players, I think it isn't a good thing to introduce.

[Guest Redsyndicate]

I think, even if you are the owner, that you must open the door/lock with a key. This key would be nondropable as you get permission.

No thanks, I have enough keys in my inventory.

Opening and locking a door/gate should require some time, for gates, specialy palisade, it should take more time. You cannot open or lock doors while hurting. You cannot open or lock doors while moving.

Yes, but dont require a key, just permissions to unlock doors.

As for gates on deed. These can be opened and locked by both the spirit guards and the villagers. But same as doors, it should take time. Although you don't get a nondropable key, for gates you have to do it the old fasioned way. Copy the keys.

Agreed, take a little time to lock/unlock gates, but nothing more than one second, cuz anything more will be just plain annoying.

The doors them selfes are strange aswell. Take a ql 90 stone house for example. It doesn't matter if you were to bash the door or the wall. The damage taken is the same. Also, if you build a door(doorwall) it strangely takes 20 bricks and 20 mortar, where is the wood?

This always bugged me, but I do like it because the area I live in is nearly devoid of trees and cutting just one down for a house would upset the carefully balanced ecosystem, and I would probably never see that tree type again..

You would also get the option of placing diffrent kinds of doors, such as, wooden door, reinforced door (wooden with iron/steel ribbons), iron/steel door. Maybe more to add there. The doors can be placed after finishing the building.

Yes! +1 to this idea alone, I would love a reinforced door and it has always annoyed me that you cannot build a wall out of a section in the wall, I've had to level many structures because I needed another door.

Push the forge against the door, that will hold them zombies out!

I wish we could do that, it would make for a primitive lock and would take some time to remove/put into place.

Additionaly, people can barricade their doors. Simply by adding, dunno, 3x planks, or shafts. That should either make the door more sturdy (taking less damage).

Or should repair around 50 damage. Why 50, why so much. That because it can be done only 1 time. Repairing the door while bashed would only incrase the lameness. Also, you can only remove the barricade from inside and removing it should take loads of time. Otherwise people will be like adding barricade for 50 dmg repair, removing it, rebuilding for more repair, ect.

And people can't barricade from outside, aka sealing people in.

Gates could propably be barricaded aswell.

Make it so that the door cannot be opened while baricaded, and the baricade must be removed in order to open it. This would also be good use as a lock without having any iron at your dispoal (although iron is everywhere)

[Tosti 1]

Good point, the keys are only symbolic. Personaly I though of double clicking them to use. But thinking you could have 20 of those keys..

Just having the option to lock/unlock a door upon right clicking when having permission is enough yes.

Gavin: Yes it's still awesome. Don't talk me about paranoia and distrust, I think they are lovely aspects for wild and always have been since G1. I compare alot of the totalwar series with wurm, where you also can use a spy to open gates.

[Huck. L. Barry 1]

Having to open doors manually would annoy the living crap out of me.

[Iulianx 90]

Not for me, i agree with the manual opening of the doors + animals and stuff should be able to pass trough the door and oh, you have to manualy close it too.

*100 Wild players rush with their swords raised at Iulianx*

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

This sounds good and all, but you can only make doors so much realistic before it becomes either too complex or just an arsepain to players.

Adding delays for locking 5-6 secs, no problem, but anything more advanced will be seriously annoying, and any further complexity is bound to cause more problems.

You could probably do something along the lines of nerfing repairing on structures that recently received damage.

[Guest Redsyndicate]

the totalwar series

[Tosti 1]

the totalwar series

Epic win Tosti, best RTW game series ever.

TotalWar FTW.

I usualy get inspiration from excisting features from other games. Total war, may it be rome or medieval, it shouldn't matter, is both realistic and balanced. I have kind of always strifed to make wurm, and specialy wild alike.

You don't see armies gatehopping over there, and when they do, it's a grave mistake when I squeeze my cavalry units though to force the gate open long enough for the heavy infantry to ram though. Things like that ya know.

[Guest Redsyndicate]

the totalwar series

Epic win Tosti, best RTW game series ever.

TotalWar FTW.

I usualy get inspiration from excisting features from other games. Total war, may it be rome or medieval, it shouldn't matter, is both realistic and balanced. I have kind of always strifed to make wurm, and specialy wild alike.

You don't see armies gatehopping over there, and when they do, it's a grave mistake when I squeeze my cavalry units though to force the gate open long enough for the heavy infantry to ram though. Things like that ya know.

lol, I meant RTS (real time strategy) not RTW (Rome Total War) and yes, I liked medieval as well.

[Klaa 4,871]

Mine doors are fine on wilds. Makes for some handy concealed entrances, which is something that gives me a pleased thrum whenever I think about it.

Gate-hopping, or rather the usage of the oneway aspect of locked doors/gates, has always struck me as silly. Ive been on both the attacking and defending sides of various seiges. People being able to keep a door open (and still remain secure) without an attacker being able to bar the door open to get in is a real problem in my eyes.

The gates and doors should not be usable without enabling the attacker to get in.

Anyways, on another note from the OP: What is wrong with the lockpicking system?

[Guest Khalid]

I disagree with it taking time to lock a gate or door. Have you ever dealt with a padlock? I am sure you have. How hard is it to reach over the gate, loop the hook of the lock through the loop of the gate, and click it shut? Unlocking, yes, because you have to get the key and put it in the lock, turn, pull, get the loop out, and then open.

[Emoo 4,358]

I think this is really only a problem on wild and obviously it seems something need to be done. Whilst i live on MR-H currently i find that door/gates work fine and any attempts to "fix" them would be a waste of time and could be better spent on another problem.

As i no longer live on wild i can't really put forward any argument there but as for Home server it poses no problem at all.  I would however suggest to rolf that fighting is fixed before somthing like this because atm fighting is ridiculous. ( I killed a young scorp with my preist alt yesterday with 1.25 fighting 9 normal fighting 2 longsword skill 4 large shield skill he was wearing 40ql chain and using a 20ql longsword with CoC and a 20ql large shield.) Anyway that's just my two cents.

[Guest Awesomefusion]

I think it is just the lack of noobs, toats