Chaos suggestion

[Kswords 461]

How about not mess with skills and items, keep Chaos part of the freedom cluster? All the changes in the OP sound awesome.

+1

[Fable 4]

+1 sounds good

[Chrizz 17]

+1 to op, if it changes i shall be playing wurm again  ;D

[Kadore 926]

How about not mess with skills and items, keep Chaos part of the freedom cluster? All the changes in the OP sound awesome.

[AceRifle 1,223]

What does the chaos council has to say about this?

[Makarus 458]

Good stuff

+1  OP.

With a couple comments.

Firstly, in my opinion, war should have a 21-24 hour buffer period for preparation. Possibly email the mayor so he can gather the troops.

After this buffer period, war is open. There is no acceptance, no declining, just declare war, and go at it.

War should have a price. A war declaration, should cost something. Maintaining said war beyond a time period should cost extra.(base war dec = 1week? + 1/2 wardec price to maintain war status?) <- reduces the use of wardecs as a griefers tool, limits it to legitimate conflict.

Secondly, one way portals would make it so only those who live near the HotA would have horses. A great advantage, or disadvantage depending on location.

Thirdly... Please, I beg of you... do not place restrictions on crossing. Many comments were right on the point - there is no economical impact of item transfers. There is no point in crossing on character limitations.

Fourth, Please, no major map change. I prefer living on mountains, as they offer a slight defensive bonus to the residents. I've spent a lot of time recently preparing to move across, a map wipe would ruin these plans. That's just me. I know others have spent years developing their places, and instantly wiping that would do nothing to help.

---

Whatever you plan to do, take a few hours a day to just think about it. Update the OP with changes, make new posts with ideas. I personally don't mind if it takes you a month of more to implement this change, if the final outcome is something everyone can enjoy.

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So to wrap it up, (tl;dr.)

1: Improved alliance based war system.

2: No portals.

3: No crossing restrictions

4: Keep the map as is.

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5: Another thought : open PvP in the open areas. Deeded territory PvP restricted to war-only.

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I think this suggestion of mine could use improving on... But these are my thoughts, I hope they help.

Lastly, to all. Bring on your weekend warriors. Chaos has been waiting for you.

[zCat 39]

If skill gain and affinities are different on Chaos and Freedom then there needs to be restrictions on crossing for both characters and items. If skills/affinities are the same everywhere a lot of problems will be avoided.

If you want new people to PvP then their characters need to be able to catch up the vets in a few months play, otherwise we will stay on Freedom

[Cerberus 247]

You CAN catch up in a few months. My God people. With effort. My account is 131 days old now. play time thats just over 4 months. That was with me working a job that allowed me very little time to play. Was working 7 days a week for over 7 months there. Or my account would have even more skills than it does now. It does NOT take years, just takes actually working on your skills. Thats the wonderful thing about this game. Its on you and the amount of effort you put into it. My account is better than some who have played for 3-5 years. This game is not for everyone. If your wanting easy mode. Go to Epic, stop crying for wild map resets and item resets. Stop trying to ruin our gaming experience. You want to catch up? Grab your tools and start skilling. Sick and tired of the whining "I cant catch up" when I not only caught up to many but passed them.

[Fooligun 591]

If* these changes do occur, a "grace" period of possibly free deed disbands would be greatful, as some people including myself planted deeds due to the server being a freedom server.

A time frame to work on deeds to be ready for full pvp/raiding would also be useful to players to change any new/current deeds to suit the proposed changes.

I would have to say no to a map/skill reset. Keep it joined with freedom so that people can travel freely between servers and help the server flourish from any people who find PVE isn't enough of a challenge any more.

Regards

fooli

[Rolf 3,563]

What does the chaos council has to say about this?

I failed the Chaos Council. I guess I was hoping for a clear roadmap with easy instructions to follow bam bam bam within a few weeks but it turned in some other direction so I introduced the HOTA and hoped for the best. Like so many other features in Wurm the HOTA is still at version 1.0 which apparently doesn't work well enough.

Now freedom players have settled with the current rules which requires Alliances to declare war on eachother. I assume you're aware this works just like kingdoms except you're not at war automatically.

Anyways, seems to me the best course is to open a new very small and open PvP server instead with the suggested rules.

[Rudie 1,479]

Very small...mmm, can it be Elevation size please? PMKs or the 3 kingdoms.

[Aristia 37]

What does the chaos council has to say about this?

I failed the Chaos Council. I guess I was hoping for a clear roadmap with easy instructions to follow bam bam bam within a few weeks but it turned in some other direction so I introduced the HOTA and hoped for the best. Like so many other features in Wurm the HOTA is still at version 1.0 which apparently doesn't work well enough.

Now freedom players have settled with the current rules which requires Alliances to declare war on eachother. I assume you're aware this works just like kingdoms except you're not at war automatically.

Anyways, seems to me the best course is to open a new very small and open PvP server instead with the suggested rules.

Spreading the pvp population yet again will weaken Wilds population furtherm (if thats even possible with the numbers these days), moving it beyond the status of a dead server that it currently has. A new server has NOT been supported by just about everyone in this thread that were clearly expecting what you outlined originally. People need to stop spewing random "issues" that relate to the economy, its been proven when Wild went into the Freedom cluster that it did not affect Freedom at all.

As for those trying to push for a map / skill reset or freeze (rudie's idea) - We're not playing Wild in the hopes it turns out into a small Epic style experiment, the fact people play Wild suggests there is no interest in any Epic related activity. A new server will further weaken Wild as it spreads our incredibly tiny population over yet another server, if the new server is even given any attention by anyone who is pvp inclined.

[Shalbriri 698]

You cross over with your current skillset and any skills you gain while being over there don't get added to your skillset when you cross back over

Pointless - fixes a problem that doesn't exist.

I am not sure why people seem so gung ho to make such a simple suggestion by Rolf so utterly complex.  The query was if us current wilders would welcome full pvp being enabled again, no Mickey Mouse hand holding /reputations based system that essentially only benefits the griefers, who later logoff to regain rep after they rob you.

I would welcome this.  But please do not rush it.

Please.

EDIT:  Adding new servers will cause more problems, mark my words.  No one on Wild/Chaos would have any interest in making a trip to a "new" pvp island/server.  We've lived here for 4 years, built our towns, finally sort of accepting the sedentary lifestyle of a Freedomized Wild.  Travelling to fight is silly - if we wanted to pvp with a "fresh start", we'd roll new toons on Epic vs. logging onto Wild.

My suggestion:  give a month grace period on this.  Do nothing.  There are people new to Chaos/Wild that are just setting up, over here cause they were intrigued by the large map and tight knit, yet low pop community.  Please do not just enable pvp on these guys overnight.  Please.  Give them a chance to fortify or leave, and I bet they will fortify and stick around.

After that, pull the /reputations nonsense out of the code, leave the alliance codebase as is so we can pick and choose who to ally with.  Allow full pvp without punishments.  Some guy wanders into my local and I see him picking locks in event, I can't do anything, Rolf.  Assuming someone is on to see him doing this, they can KoS him.  If they don't and I see him, if I attack him I get MASSIVE reputations losses and removed from my village.  The current system favors the griefers and punishes guys trying to defend themselves.  It's patronizing, and futile.  I watched a bunch of weekend warriors come over to "raid" a small place by the Landing, listening to them giggle in localchat about the fact I couldn't kill them without incurring harsh rep hits.  Sort of off kilter, isn't it?

[Judicator 539]

Another pvp server? So we should leave epic and let it die? Or do you want 3 pvp'ers per server doing nothing?

[syncaidius 159]

Anyways, seems to me the best course is to open a new very small and open PvP server instead with the suggested rules.

No offence Rolf, but if you do that, it will be heading the same way as before, spreading the population too thin. We have 8 servers already, and chaos is the least populated (even more so considering its size).

Can you honestly say its worth keeping chaos running in its current state (a 4096x4096 server?) for an average of 40 players (yearly) and 212 premium accounts? Why not clear the damn thing and turn it into something more useful?

I know your trying to keep the very few players left on it happy, but is it worth it? I'm pretty sure you can make better use of the server hardware chaos is currently eating.

Statistics for those who like numbers:

http://wild001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/wurm.html

http://wild001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html

EDIT:

I'm aware the epic servers are not far ahead of chaos in premium count, but they're also 1/4 of the size of chaos. Keep that in mind.

[Shalbriri 698]

You must also bear in mind a pvp enabled Wild/Chaos, big deeds are running 50 heavies, into the regions of a gold a month in upkeep.

Not your nickel and dime, 1 or 0 guards little deeds on non pvp servers.  That money all ends up in Rolf's pockets in the end - if Wild was a loss leader financially, it would have been shut long ago.

I am not sure how the tile size of a map vs. the population means anything in regards to something being worthwhile to keep running.

Being in IT myself, I know full well Wild/Chaos is no more expensive to run that any smaller server.

[syncaidius 159]

You must also bear in mind a pvp enabled Wild/Chaos, big deeds are running 50 heavies, into the regions of a gold a month in upkeep.

Not your nickel and dime, 1 or 0 guards little deeds on non pvp servers.  That money all ends up in Rolf's pockets in the end - if Wild was a loss leader financially, it would have been shut long ago.

I am not sure how the tile size of a map vs. the population means anything in regards to something being worthwhile to keep running.

Being in IT myself, I know full well Wild/Chaos is no more expensive to run that any smaller server.

I'd agree with that, except again wild's economy graph tells a different story. No new silver seems to be going into Wild's economy. If there is any, its barely noticable on the graph. And since epic opened its dropped alot. Graph here: http://wild001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/economy.html

[Shalbriri 698]

The economy has fallen apart here because we were freedomized, essentially.  In regards to how we Wilders are spending our IG currency, anyways.

Some deeds that had 50 guards dropped to 5.  Why pay for 50 in a neutered pvp environment?  Same reason you Freedom fellows don't have 50 guards at your places.  Worst thing to likely come by is a champ troll, and 1 guard can keep him busy long enough to keep the residents safe.  Chaos *is* freedom, only with a pvp/Hota zone.

Why?  Other than griefers and wardecs, what threats are there?  Why should a guy running a HS that 1 year ago had 10+ guards keep 10+ guards on hire under the freedomized Chaos structure?  It's like flushing money down the bog.  The loss of IG revenue via upkeep I predicted before the Wild -> Chaos patchover happened - it was only logical, and entirely expected.  Makes sense to me, even more so knowing for a fact that most people here on Wild/Chaos as a whole dropped guard counts dramatically after pvp was removed.

[AceRifle 1,223]

Allow chaos account onto epic with no skill lost! Or the other way around???

[Wulfgar 1,103]

Allow chaos account onto epic with no skill lost! Or the other way around???

Never.

Worst thing to likely come by is a champ troll, and 1 guard can keep him busy long enough to keep the residents safe.

Not really true, since someone cried about not being able to raid a deed that had 50 guards with 4 people, templars can die to a normal young scorpion.

Anyway, back to the point, me and a few other people were actually looking forward to the first suggestion in Rolfs post, full pvp on chaos with no penalties etc, I was actually going to go over there and pvp once in a while.

[iaqb 4]

Anyways, seems to me the best course is to open a new very small and open PvP server instead with the suggested rules.

Everything but not another map, i would rather vote for a reset current one than adding more unpopulated maps. Just open the pvp on Chaos, thats all, simple, fast and good (worked very well for many years).

(dont listen to those saying that opening pvp will ruin their new deeds, when Wild went freedom you stated it very clear, that pvp will be still allowed, so those who planted new deeds (im one of them) and now complaining because they are not prepared are just pathetic, we knew exactly what we were doing, we will deal with it)

[syncaidius 159]

The economy has fallen apart here because we were freedomized, essentially.  In regards to how we Wilders are spending our IG currency, anyways.

Some deeds that had 50 guards dropped to 5.  Why pay for 50 in a neutered pvp environment?  Same reason you Freedom fellows don't have 50 guards at your places.  Worst thing to likely come by is a champ troll, and 1 guard can keep him busy long enough to keep the residents safe.  Chaos *is* freedom, only with a pvp/Hota zone.

Why?  Other than griefers and wardecs, what threats are there?  Why should a guy running a HS that 1 year ago had 10+ guards keep 10+ guards on hire under the freedomized Chaos structure?  It's like flushing money down the bog.  The loss of IG revenue via upkeep I predicted before the Wild -> Chaos patchover happened - it was only logical, and entirely expected.  Makes sense to me, even more so knowing for a fact that most people here on Wild/Chaos as a whole dropped guard counts dramatically after pvp was removed.

Glad we agree on something then.

IMO one way to clear wild up, without setting a seperate server up or just leaving chaos there to rot like now, would be to refund the remaining chaos players the costs of their deeds + some amount of compensation, then wipe the server and make it into a smaller (1024x1024?) freedom PVP/hunting server (with HOTA too?). Deeding could be disallowed and the server filled with harder creatures than those found on the non-PVP freedom servers. Houses could be limited one 2x2 per player (or 4 tiles of any shape) at most to act as hunting lodges/outposts and walls/fences could be disabled.

All it needs is a really, really good incentive to travel to the server. For me it would be to fight creatures that I can't find on freedom, something harder than trolls, but weaker than dragons, something fun and and a more challenging to fight than what freedom currently has to offer. PVP thrown in with this would be fun. The hardcore PVP'ers probably won't agree with such an idea, but it is exactly that, an idea.

I'm pretty sure more could be added to it. I've always liked the idea of a dedicated hunting server, and i know a few other people have to. But after all, it is only a few.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

Who wants to play some GV toon to PvP? I train my account to be the best fighter it can be... If people want to compete then they need to invest their time into their accounts.

My idea was to have 1 server where you'd not need to grind your skills for months, to be able to leave the safety of your fortified beginner area and start the PvP. Where'd you come with a "cloned" char from any other server, would start with maybe 70% of the max. skills and gear, and could start real PvP after a very short time.

This is what PvP fiends usually are asking for - a quick start, a level play ground, action, not grinding.

Another misconception about PvP servers right there, TBH almost every single fighter has a craft that they do - Why take away a portion of the game that people enjoy?

We see that not this much people are enjoying it, actually. This is why this thread exists. Wild/ Chaos just doesn't seem to work as intended.

So I'd propose a radical change. Keep Epic as the main PvP server, with all and any Wurmian features, and game play aimed for longer times.

But make Wild/ Chaos an easily accessible, fast-paced real PvP server.

• No direct connection to other servers. You enter a portal, chose a faction, and get a "clone" on this server, that never can come back. Your original char remains on its original server. You get the opportunity to chose approbate gear and skills, maybe with 70% of the max. possible, and can start the fighting. Should you lose your gear, you could replace it here.
  
• A system like HOTA might work nicely, if completely resetted any other month(s). A smaller island, randomly changed spawn points to equalize terrain advantages, maybe a limit for faction member numbers, to have similar head counts.

Idea is to have a PvP server with lower hurdles for entry (and lower risks), that might attract some more else non-PvP players, too.

And that, due to easy access, would be better populated, have more action, and would thus educate the people to maybe join Epic later. Kind of a "weekend warrior" server.

I think this would be good for the Wurm PvP as such, raising the numbers of ppl considering to try it.

And, due to low grind and common resets, would be a great tool to try out new PvP mechanics, to spice up the somewhat stale Wurm PvP. Think such would needed badly.

It wouldn't need to replace Wild/ Chaos. I could be just another new server. Since I'm not on Wild I have no real idea if the concept of it has a chance to survive.

I wonder why people always want to get to the same level with everyone else?

If the skills were limited to 20, and everyone would have that in a fight, it would be completely random who wins. Okay, some tactics but thats barely important.

In such a case player skill would be the determining factor. And tactics. This is what's usually asked for by PvP'ers ...

(better game mechanics could be helpful, too, OK)

Have a good time!

[Aristia 37]

Since I'm not on Wild I have no real idea if the concept of it has a chance to survive.

Can we please stop discussing things like new servers, new concepts when the people who actually ARE on the server in question, have pretty much all agreed that we want what was in the opening post... Not some half baked idea like a new server!

[tintin 12]

No new server. Just re-instate the PvP on Wild. When Wild went chaos everyone knew that it would possibly go back to the way it was in the first place.