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Rolf

Archery skillgain change

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Since archery skillgain was too easy by alt attacking using harmless arrows, the code now gives skill when the attacks have power enough to deal at least some damage or harm equipment. The idea is that you should at least have to heal or mend equipment.

There are some situations that won't give skill such as when you're attacking the same player all the time (which might be removed if the damage dealing works properly) or attacking newbies.

I would like feedback on how this works now. Especially whether skillgain is too slow or too fast and and if we can remove the macro checks for attacking alts.

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Just remove skill from archering players all together, it may be unrealistic but it will stop alt abuse.

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Does this effect PvE as well? Or just against players?

The check vs same players is obvious but not the first bit about dealing damage.

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just remove archery skill gain from players

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Just remove skill from archering players all together, it may be unrealistic but it will stop alt abuse.

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Just remove skill from archering players all together, it may be unrealistic but it will stop alt abuse.

Remove also shield skill + shield bashing skill from alts, that was heavily used on Wild, and probably here on Epic already.

It is an unneeded feature that while Spy Prevention makes it harder, it is still plausible to do. 

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just remove archery skill gain from players

I can't really agree with this.

If the game is intended to mimic real world advancement, even at a minimal level, it stands to reason that one would gain more skill attacking a moving, blocking, armored opponent.

But it should only count if damage is actually done. (ie. you found a gap in the armor)

Shooting at a stationary archery target should only afford you so much gain, like now, since there is no risk nor difficulty in it.

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I agree with removing skill gain from players with respect to archery and shield, period.  increase skill gain a tad bit from hard animals to compensate.

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I agree with removing skill gain from players with respect to archery and shield, period.  increase skill gain a tad bit from hard animals to compensate.

^

Shame the windows have been open for so long, though.  Nice one.

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I think the way it's setup is fine for the most part. Putting archery on a timer makes it so you don't skill as much. They get their skillgain and then do something else, go back and shoot another arrow.

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Positive change in the right direction.

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i am not experienced with archery or how it has been used with alts, so apologies if these questions/observations are naive, but if it is an alt then what is stopping people using slightly-damaging arrows and just kill the alt, respawn it, and start again? or does the newb reduction stop this (basically requiring you use an alt with more useful skills on it thus not wanting to risk death)? I hope that the skill-gain stop on targetting a single target repeatedly cant be avoided by just firing at a different alt for a while or a random creature then switching back.

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Since archery skillgain was too easy by alt attacking using harmless arrows, the code now gives skill when the attacks have power enough to deal at least some damage or harm equipment. The idea is that you should at least have to heal or mend equipment.

There are some situations that won't give skill such as when you're attacking the same player all the time (which might be removed if the damage dealing works properly) or attacking newbies.

I would like feedback on how this works now. Especially whether skillgain is too slow or too fast and and if we can remove the macro checks for attacking alts.

Why not simply allow skill gain for attacking any player with arrows, whether enemy, villager, or ally.  That way you completely eliminate any unearned advantage that people can easily generate by having shared alts.

The best way to prevent people from abusing alts is to simply make it so that they don't have to for decent skillgain.

Sparring for fight skill, and use leather on arrows to make a padded arrow and use that for both shield and archery training.

Sortof like they did it on this planet when we used melee weapons and simple bows.

All of these code contortions you go through to try to invent some weird counter-intuitive system to prevent people from doing what they are going to do anyway is a huge waste of your time Rolf.

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Just went out hunting, still extremely small gains.

Possibly make it so archery gains are like fs? So when u get a kill you get archery skill. Just an idea.

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I've tried hunting on animals, it's really good gains already imo. I wouldn't go changing it anymore, i'll test it later on and give some more feedback.

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Hm weird change if you ask me.

I've been training on alts in the past, and now I am wondering whats meant by not having to repair or heal.

I was using 30-50 QL war arrows, otherwise they just broke way too fast. My alt used to wear a plate set, and used a large shield. At some point he blocked really good of course, but still I had to get a new shield from time to time. And the plate set was worn down relatively fast as well.

From what I could tell, the skillgain for PvP / PvE was the same.

The limit of only being able to shoot 100 arrows every 4 hours made this kinda hard, too. (For those who don't know, there was already code inside that stops you from gaining skill after 100 arrows, and you could shoot again after 4 hours)

But to be honest, I never liked the alt thing of course - I had to pay the bugger to be premium.

I think to prevent this kind of abuse is very simple:

Arrows shouldn't drop all over the area when you shoot a creature... That's the thing that turned me off from hunting for most of the time. If you're in a hilly area, in a forest, or even both it is incredibly annoying to find all your arrows. On the other hand, you can put an alt in a straight line.

P.S:

Rolf already removed the skillgain for shieldbashing from alts months ago.

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Hm weird change if you ask me.

I've been training on alts in the past, and now I am wondering whats meant by not having to repair or heal.

I was using 30-50 QL war arrows, otherwise they just broke way too fast. My alt used to wear a plate set, and used a large shield. At some point he blocked really good of course, but still I had to get a new shield from time to time. And the plate set was worn down relatively fast as well.

From what I could tell, the skillgain for PvP / PvE was the same.

The limit of only being able to shoot 100 arrows every 4 hours made this kinda hard, too. (For those who don't know, there was already code inside that stops you from gaining skill after 100 arrows, and you could shoot again after 4 hours)

But to be honest, I never liked the alt thing of course - I had to pay the bugger to be premium.

I think to prevent this kind of abuse is very simple:

Arrows shouldn't drop all over the area when you shoot a creature... That's the thing that turned me off from hunting for most of the time. If you're in a hilly area, in a forest, or even both it is incredibly annoying to find all your arrows. On the other hand, you can put an alt in a straight line.

P.S:

Rolf already removed the skillgain for shieldbashing from alts months ago.

Stopping skillgain from alts is impossible if people share alts.  Especially bought alts that used to be someone else's main character.  Are you really going to try to sort through all the variables and try to interfere with skillgain on that level?  Even considering it is rediculous, unless you only plan on doing it in a halfarse manner, in which case it will be both rediculous and badly broken.

Just fix the system so that villagers can train one another and all this stupid enemy-kingdom-alt crap will go away.

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Orrrrrr. Leave alts the exact same and just cut down the ridiculous archery skillgain. Make em give you the same as animals. That way you dont miss out on money from alts rolf, and people dont get too OP in archery. Training alts is still easier then hunting but it costs money whereas hunting animals give the same gain for freezy

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Orrrrrr. Leave alts the exact same and just cut down the ridiculous archery skillgain. Make em give you the same as animals. That way you dont miss out on money from alts rolf, and people dont get too OP in archery. Training alts is still easier then hunting but it costs money whereas hunting animals give the same gain for freezy

Rationalizing abuse of game mechanics by upping normal skill gain to that level isn't the answer.  Remove skill gain from people.  I've hardly ever gained a lot of weapon/shield/archery skill from pvp, so I don't see much being missed out on.

(btw, alts can be free now on all home servers, unless there's some 20+ stat restriction on gaining archery skill)

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The spy protection already makes it a pain to use a enemy kingdom alt, so this new update should stop alt abuse.

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Orrrrrr. Leave alts the exact same and just cut down the ridiculous archery skillgain. Make em give you the same as animals. That way you dont miss out on money from alts rolf, and people dont get too OP in archery. Training alts is still easier then hunting but it costs money whereas hunting animals give the same gain for freezy

Rationalizing abuse of game mechanics by upping normal skill gain to that level isn't the answer.  Remove skill gain from people.  I've hardly ever gained a lot of weapon/shield/archery skill from pvp, so I don't see much being missed out on.

(btw, alts can be free now on all home servers, unless there's some 20+ stat restriction on gaining archery skill)

Nowhere does he suggest upping normal skill gain. He is saying reduce skillgain from other people, which I agree with. Eliminating skill gain from other people entirely is not the answer, that is a misguided backdoor solution that reduces the quality of the game and the incentives to pvp. I have never used alts to train on, and will never do so, but I don't believe there exists a perfect mechanism to distinguish between alt-training and normal pvp. Villagers should be able to train on each other, but because it's so much more convenient than normal hunting of animals, it should give seriously reduced skill gains. Skill gain needs to be based mainly on the difficulty to hit and the damage dealt, and also whether your target is in motion or standing still. Targets standing in one place should not give much skill in any case, as they ought to be much easier to hit.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with training archery on a villagemate (another person, not an alt). Especially if they equip a shield they are skilled in, and are running around making themselves harder to hit. Obviously the skill gain from training on other people should be lower than training on animals, otherwise no one would go out and hunt. In addition, training a skill such as archery on a wide variety of animals should yield more skill, because in real life, an archer would need to spend more time thinking about the weak spots of each target and not merely pick one spot on one animal and hit it 1000 times. You don't learn something new by doing the same thing 1000 times. I don't like hearing about people dominating a troll and leaving it in the middle of a lake, to be shot 1000 times. My suggestion for this is to cap skillgain on a per-target or per-creature-type basis, and have it reset every few rl days (or weeks?). No one should get to 70 archery on one animal, whether it is a human, a troll, a scorpion, etc.

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Nowhere does he suggest upping normal skill gain. He is saying reduce skillgain from other people, which I agree with.

Apologies then, I misread his post.  Still don't support skill from alts/village mates either way, it's an easier alternative to 'normal' skilling.

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Hm weird change if you ask me.

I've been training on alts in the past, and now I am wondering whats meant by not having to repair or heal.

I was using 30-50 QL war arrows, otherwise they just broke way too fast. My alt used to wear a plate set, and used a large shield. At some point he blocked really good of course, but still I had to get a new shield from time to time. And the plate set was worn down relatively fast as well.

From what I could tell, the skillgain for PvP / PvE was the same.

The limit of only being able to shoot 100 arrows every 4 hours made this kinda hard, too. (For those who don't know, there was already code inside that stops you from gaining skill after 100 arrows, and you could shoot again after 4 hours)

But to be honest, I never liked the alt thing of course - I had to pay the bugger to be premium.

I think to prevent this kind of abuse is very simple:

Arrows shouldn't drop all over the area when you shoot a creature... That's the thing that turned me off from hunting for most of the time. If you're in a hilly area, in a forest, or even both it is incredibly annoying to find all your arrows. On the other hand, you can put an alt in a straight line.

P.S:

Rolf already removed the skillgain for shieldbashing from alts months ago.

Stopping skillgain from alts is impossible if people share alts.  Especially bought alts that used to be someone else's main character.  Are you really going to try to sort through all the variables and try to interfere with skillgain on that level?  Even considering it is rediculous, unless you only plan on doing it in a halfarse manner, in which case it will be both rediculous and badly broken.

Just fix the system so that villagers can train one another and all this stupid enemy-kingdom-alt crap will go away.

I wasn't trying to defend this or sort it out in any way.

You are totally right about what you say, when people share alts it's very easy. When I trained archery on alts, I had an alt and 2 other villagers had one too. Thus we could shoot 300 arrows every 4 hours. That's already worth a lot.

I was merely saying, there is always a reason for the 'abuse' of these kind of loopholes. It's not the skillgain, as that is the same on animals.

And for me, it was easier to stand around for about 45 minutes and shoot arrows at an alt 10 tiles away, instead of walking around through valleys and over hills to collect my arrows all over the place.

Arrows should drop less randomly.

When you shoot at an archery target all arrows / arrow shafts pile up on the tile where the archery target is. Why can't we have this for PvE too? It would make it a lot less annoying.

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