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Rolf

Body Control levelled on Elevation server

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Lockpicking in safety should be slow... painfully slow.

Now I can see higher ql locks giving a bit more skill. That was my initial working theory when I started tinkering with Thievery many, many moons ago.

Fails only gave experience in the Thievery main. Ok np.

Lock types didnt really matter (until boatslocks were made more difficult) in difficulty or even skill gain. Wasnt sure about that initially. Ok that can be worked with.

Skill gain didnt matter regarding the lock ql. Hrm, ok apparently Rolf wants to make this a real grind. Understandable, it does affect other players quite bit.

At first I used 1ql gatelocks purely for convenience; however, after a time (and some gameplay additions) I find myself preferring small chests. Nice and portable.

EDIT: Course thievery is good for BC, its the primary stat for the main and subskills.

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Lockpicking in safety should be slow... painfully slow.

Now I can see higher ql locks giving a bit more skill. That was my initial working theory when I started tinkering with Thievery many, many moons ago.

Fails only gave experience in the Thievery main. Ok np.

Lock types didnt really matter (until boatslocks were made more difficult) in difficulty or even skill gain. Wasnt sure about that initially. Ok that can be worked with.

Skill gain didnt matter regarding the lock ql. Hrm, ok apparently Rolf wants to make this a real grind. Understandable, it does affect other players quite bit.

At first I used 1ql gatelocks purely for convenience; however, after a time (and some gameplay additions) I find myself preferring small chests. Nice and portable.

EDIT: Course thievery is good for BC, its the primary stat for the main and subskills.

yea i made a thread about this a few weeks ago but i think thats how it should work or at least 50% chance to pick it should give more skill

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A minor boost. Far as numbers and formulas go, Rolf tends to change those when he implements a player's outline.

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

Stop whining and take your punishment like men, you get to still play after exploiting. Gratz.

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

They were banned for many reasons built up.

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

See this is why I want a list of names, because it's not ALL of HOTS.  The only ones I know to confirm they did this were members of Black Summit.  It needs to be clarified instead of just bringing down the whole name of HOTS because of Black Summit's actions. 

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You shouldnt try to make hots look bad, especially since most of the suspects now probably converted to the new pmk. Hots had a fresh start yesterday.

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You shouldnt try to make hots look bad, especially since most of the suspects now probably converted to the new pmk. Hots had a fresh start yesterday.

i can name a few of them right now...but im not going to because its there choice if they want people to know that they did it -.-

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hi i'm hots and my lockpicking skill is 1.09

it's still ALL OF HOTS anyways

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You shouldnt try to make hots look bad, especially since most of the suspects now probably converted to the new pmk. Hots had a fresh start yesterday.

hmm so the ones who converted were the ones with 50 lockpicking eh?

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

See this is why I want a list of names, because it's not ALL of HOTS.  The only ones I know to confirm they did this were members of Black Summit.  It needs to be clarified instead of just bringing down the whole name of HOTS because of Black Summit's actions.

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It's funny how you are against generalizing Hots, but then proceed to make a generalization of Black Summit

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It's funny how you are against generalizing Hots, but then proceed to make a generalization of Black Summit

You shouldnt try to make hots look bad, especially since most of the suspects now probably converted to the new pmk. Hots had a fresh start yesterday.

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It's funny how you are against generalizing Hots, but then proceed to make a generalization of Black Summit

You shouldnt try to make hots look bad, especially since most of the suspects now probably converted to the new pmk. Hots had a fresh start yesterday.

You were saying?

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he is saying that most of hots converted and BS is the one of the only (or maybe only) village left

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

See this is why I want a list of names, because it's not ALL of HOTS.  The only ones I know to confirm they did this were members of Black Summit.  It needs to be clarified instead of just bringing down the whole name of HOTS because of Black Summit's actions.

It's funny how you are against generalizing Hots, but then proceed to make a generalization of Black Summit

It is a generalization but I didn't say ALL of Black Summit.  I said "members" of Black Summit have already confirmed doing/abusing this "borderline exploit."  It's not fair in my opinion for someone to post and say "20 HotS" abused an exploit and not say who.  It makes others who had no part in this whatsoever look bad, and soils their name.  I worked hard to play fairly and made sure all my villagers did the same.  If anyone had abused a single bug in my village I'd of booted them.  That clearly was not the case of others, sadly.  We didn't need to abuse anything to get ahead, we had good skilled people.

I don't want myself, and I am sure Purgatory and Infrinn do not want to be associated with this exploit, we had NO part in it.  That leaves only one village left, which people may easily figure out themselves. 

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

See this is why I want a list of names, because it's not ALL of HOTS.  The only ones I know to confirm they did this were members of Black Summit.  It needs to be clarified instead of just bringing down the whole name of HOTS because of Black Summit's actions.

It's funny how you are against generalizing Hots, but then proceed to make a generalization of Black Summit

It is a generalization but I didn't say ALL of Black Summit.  I said "members" of Black Summit have already confirmed doing/abusing this "borderline exploit."  It's not fair in my opinion for someone to post and say "20 HotS" abused an exploit and not say who.  It makes others who had no part in this whatsoever look bad, and soils their name.  I worked hard to play fairly and made sure all my villagers did the same.  If anyone had abused a single bug in my village I'd of booted them.  That clearly was not the case of others, sadly.  We didn't need to abuse anything to get ahead, we had good skilled people.

I don't want myself, and I am sure Purgatory and Infrinn do not want to be associated with this exploit, we had NO part in it.  That leaves only one village left, which people may easily figure out themselves.

It needs to be clarified instead of just bringing down the whole name of HOTS because of Black Summit's actions. 

^ Makes it looks like it was just black summit, in the way you said it. That's probably what he is reffering to.

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I don't want myself, and I am sure Purgatory and Infrinn do not want to be associated with this exploit, we had NO part in it.  That leaves only one village left, which people may easily figure out themselves.

No one in DS was apart of it, but there was a few people in purgatory were apart of it. Nice try though posteh

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"Borderline exploiting" justified by lsoing the work they put in over days. Meanwhile you have allowed the permaban of people who have never exploited, but you say THEY are bad for the game, meanwhile back in HOTS...

-Touche->

See this is why I want a list of names, because it's not ALL of HOTS.  The only ones I know to confirm they did this were members of Black Summit.  It needs to be clarified instead of just bringing down the whole name of HOTS because of Black Summit's actions.

It's funny how you are against generalizing Hots, but then proceed to make a generalization of Black Summit

It is a generalization but I didn't say ALL of Black Summit.  I said "members" of Black Summit have already confirmed doing/abusing this "borderline exploit."  It's not fair in my opinion for someone to post and say "20 HotS" abused an exploit and not say who.  It makes others who had no part in this whatsoever look bad, and soils their name.  I worked hard to play fairly and made sure all my villagers did the same.  If anyone had abused a single bug in my village I'd of booted them.  That clearly was not the case of others, sadly.  We didn't need to abuse anything to get ahead, we had good skilled people.

I don't want myself, and I am sure Purgatory and Infrinn do not want to be associated with this exploit, we had NO part in it.  That leaves only one village left, which people may easily figure out themselves.

Um you do realize Black Summit was not the only village at the time. Right now you are trying to push everything on us, while there was also Purgatory and your deed. Your statement on how you would obviously remove any involved people from the village are absolutely meaningless. Next to those 3 big villages, we also have the Hots home server, which has some active deeds.

Another reason you can not simply blame it on us is because as far as I know, we don't even have 20 active players.

What you are doing now is saying it's silly that we can not know the names, because this will make some innocent Hots players look bad. Instead you blame it on Black Summit (which you have clearly implied when you say 'Black Summit's actions') and while there were indeed players involved from Black Summit, the majority of the village has nothing to do with this. But that doesn't seem to matter to you and you will simply continue to give Black Summit a bad name

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I could name a bunch of people from purgatory involved in this, but I dont want to give away their names without their permission. The few individuals from black summit involved are a small minorty of the nerfed people.

But as long as rofl doesnt post names, posteh can keep on spreading these wild accusations and unfounded rumours without anyone being able to refute them. Cheap shots.

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Not spreading rumors, just stating from this thread and IRC the only "confirmed" people I heard to admit to it were from Black Summit.  This is why I disliked the idea of saying "20 HotS exploited" because it's a generalization that doesn't really say who it is, and it gives a bad name to a kingdom.  As KellyT stated earlier (thank you by the way) DS wasn't involved, but that didn't stop people from asking me if we did it, or perhaps thinking it.  That's rather upsetting when you put much time into a village as I did and taught them to play fair.  I am sure you can understand that.

I'm not saying all 20 are BS people, they probably aren't.  I heard Goons on BL-Home did it also, but I'll maybe never know the 20 people exactly, but I think it is something that should be announced for others don't get wrongly accused and badmouthed.  Sorry if I jumped the gun on Purgatory - I am not in the village, the ones I spoke to never really told me about it.  Most today when it was discussed in PMK seemed upset and mad that people did it.  I know also no one in our PMK really has high lockpicking, I don't think anyone has over 20.  I'd be real surprised if anyone in this PMK was on the list of 20 people, but you never know.

More than the names though, I don't really think the punishment really is justified with what skill and stats gained.  30 in those skills is still an unfair advantage and gain that others won't be able to catch up to, and that's exactly what sadly helped kill Wild server.  Letting people getting away with "borderline exploits" now on a fresh start is really disheartening, and it's making me fear for another Wild server. 

If anything it just punishes real players who tried to play legit and fair, but because they didn't do the exploit in time they're going to always be behind.  Maybe because I am someone who missed out and I am bias, but that seems rather unfair and unjustified. 

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These people involved go to 30 control, lockpicking and thievery because of this exploit. Its disgusting that they get rolled to only 30.

All this does it promote people to use exploits as they will actually get something out of it in the end :/

Seems, skill wise, Epic is already going down the drain because of people taking advantage of exploits, and rolf not being stern enough with his punishments.

I hope you all have fun on epic where every man and his dog has 30+ lockpicking and can pick into just about everything.

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It's not my game and I'm not a game developer but over the time I've been playing and the numerous discussions about Windows of Opportunity (not just in this game) I'm always left wondering why devs react the way they do when an unbalanced form of emergent game play arises.

Removing the Window of Opportunity creates negativity in both parties.  Closing the window makes those who missed out and future players doubt the fairness of the system and nerfing/banning those who used the window creates anger from the nerf/ban and insecurity over what might be nerfed/banned in the future.  Negative perceptions make unhappy customers which is not good for the game.

Surely the way to rectify a Window of Opportunity is to accept that it existed and make it faster for everyone who didn't take advantage of it to catch up.  To determine a reasonable point in the skill progression that people attained through the exploit or unbalanced mechanic and then change the rate of skill gain up to that point to quickly get everyone roughly back to where they should be. 

That way, on the one hand the people that missed out are not frustrated by a lingering perception (and perception is more of an issue than fact here) that they might somehow be at a disadvantage and on the other customers are not lost to frustration by having their skills nerfed or by getting hit with the banhammer in an attempt to lay down the law on exploiting.

Opening an even wider (but capped) window allows those who used the original to have a short term advantage and gives everyone else the option of catching them up so that balance can be restored without nerfs or bans.  The only whining this may cause is from the opportunists who should subsequently calm down once it has been pointed out to them that, in the name of balance, the only other option was to nerf or ban them (both of which being worse). 

Darkfall is a good example of the kind of animosity that exploits and Windows of Opportunity create, I think.  In a competitive PvP environment it is paramount for the long term health of the game to make sure not only that the system is fair and balanced but more importantly that the players and future players perceive it as such.

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For some reason the X3's on the nerfed players skills were erased on the last server reset too

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