Sign in to follow this  
Boj

Time for change

Recommended Posts

This is a dumb thread, I regret reading in it. I want my time back please, I came here thinking it was something else and instead of moving on to reading another thread I will whine about this thread being wrong. :/

So far I've heard no concrete evidence as to why I'm "wrong". I've opened my thoughts for everyone and kindly asked for opinions but, well... this.

It was a parody of you, so pretty ironic if you felt that my post was dumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a dumb thread, I regret reading in it. I want my time back please, I came here thinking it was something else and instead of moving on to reading another thread I will whine about this thread being wrong. :/

So far I've heard no concrete evidence as to why I'm "wrong". I've opened my thoughts for everyone and kindly asked for opinions but, well... this.

It was a parody of you, so pretty ironic if you felt that my post was dumb.

mmm... k? Not sure how that worked out, as I was only trying to explain my point to Judicator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Money issues,

I now where you are coming from Boj, and I agree with your opinion. However you overlook some things, when you say everyone has to pay with real life money for the good stuff in Wurm. While It's is true that silver is a currency that correlates to the real dollar, nothing in wurm forces you to use your own real life money.

Opposed to some other game item shops, wurm has all the items and all the money inside the game. You can gain in game silver by working for or with other players. Sure It will take time to gain the skill and effort to collect enough money for one of the top items in the game but it is possible.

Loot at other games. I played WoW before, we had to kill the same dragon 50 damn times, to get enough armor pieces together. And there was no any other way to get it except standing next to the corpse when it's hitting the ground.

Of the games I have seen Wurm is actually one of the best at letting those players with money pay, and those players without money play.

About the points Boj made and I think no one answered yet:

2. Game Rules

I agree wholeheartedly, some of the rules are quite a bit convoluted, I think I even had some trouble at first to find all of them on the webside/forum/wiki/game. And not just the soft ones, it is the same with a lot of the hard coded rules and mechanics as well.

Crafting for example: Some items just get some damage, other immediately turn into scraps or entirely vanish altogether.

I could name a few more, but that again is not the point here. What makes me mad though is that there is no official notice whatsoever for these individual weird mechanics, if they are as intended, bugged or an alpha/beta state or anyrthing.

3. Staff

The GM team is not necessarily too small. It's just that they are not hired staff, but players, So their appearance is voluntary, dependent on time zones and somewhat irregular.

Biggest problem though is the message system. they GM's don't get your message when they are on a different server. And the messages are so short, it's barely possible to get any meaning in there. So they wouldn't even have any information to try and help you while you are offline.

The worst thing though, is that different GM react way different on issues with both hard and soft rules. Worst case I know of: trapping people in a mineshaft with indestructible freedom walls. Some GMs would simply destroy the trap. Another essentially said to wait for the absent mayor or stop playing wurm for 6 month until the deed would be disbanded and decayed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never paid any real-life money for anything other than premium time. Yes, with money you can buy a super awesome 40 Body Control and 80 Fight Skill account with 90 Archery to attempt to whoop butt in PvP, but ultimately you'll still die because it's not the skill that supports the character, it's the experience of the person behind the wheel on the character. Grinding up your character from scratch will give you the edge over someone who just bought an account in PvP when it comes down to it.

Agreed, you look at the majority of people who buy accounts and try to PVP, they end up dying the most usually.  I won't name names but it's fairly obvious from Wild that just buying an account on Wurm doesn't help you get kills.

You'll be surprise i bought all of my account and only died 4 times pvping Killing 5x the amount of my deaths.Getting experience is easy grinding up a account is hard as ....

No, that's not accurate at all.  Maybe 4 times when you were on it, but letting others borrow it they died plenty, a lot more than people you killed.  Comparing it to people who leveled up their own accounts - they did better because of the experience.  It'll always be like that in most cases, I could name a list of boughten accounts who did terrible or never exceeded their original owner.

Basic case and point:  Doctorchaos.  PTO went to like 1700 on that account, killing people right outside Kyara, running around Gold Coast.  He sold it, and the next owner barely PvPed with it.  It got sold again and then just started dying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or if your like me, buy an account pvp with it twice get killed once and then epic opens >.>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say a drake set costs 100E. Now you could either pay the 100E in real-life money, or you could pay it in silver, which is still real-life money regardless of where it came from.

What if someone who missed the dragon raids comes along and wants a drake set; why do they have to pay out of their own pocket for it on top of what they already pay for in-game?

Pay for it or deal with the elitism.

I have no idea what you're getting at here, could you maybe like, rephrase that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point is that "I win because I have more money than you" is ethically wrong if there is no measure to counter it.

World of Tanks, for example, has tanks that you can purchase for real-life money, but you can earn your way up to tanks of similar power and beyond. Wurm is essentially an apartheid by money at the moment.

The only thing that hardcoded lets you buy power with money are deeds and i guess some trader items. You didnt need money to kill dragons and get scale if you were fast and determined enough to do it. Just the will and enough people. Most of the overpowered items never required dollars. They were free gifts for holidays, or items conquered in game.

This money market is completely player created and impossible to stop, which is the case in every game. If you make it illegal, I will just "lose" my item in a fight, or drop it if you wire me the money, no way to stop it.

Making these items "worthless" in game is against rolfs game design/vision of unique perks that give serious in game advantages to a few players willing to do what it takes.

Im semi confused what you are complaining about with this real money deal. Are you talking about people paying for shortcuts to scale armor and spyglasses and such, or about people buying deeds.

Say a drake set costs 100E. Now you could either pay the 100E in real-life money, or you could pay it in silver, which is still real-life money regardless of where it came from.

What if someone who missed the dragon raids comes along and wants a drake set; why do they have to pay out of their own pocket for it on top of what they already pay for in-game?

Pay for it or deal with the elitism.

But thats not true. You could have gotten the drake from killing dragons, or by killing people who wear scale, or by stealing it in a raid. Just because you're too lazy/incompetent to do it the normal way doesn't mean it's impossible. They are supposed to be rare items that are hard to get. If you want them you're gonna have to be one of the best. You dont have to pay to get drake. It's just an easier shortcut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the issue was raised about freedom drake, so no fighting or stealing. But true, on other servers it would be an additional method of getting one besides working for the silver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never paid any real-life money for anything other than premium time. Yes, with money you can buy a super awesome 40 Body Control and 80 Fight Skill account with 90 Archery to attempt to whoop butt in PvP, but ultimately you'll still die because it's not the skill that supports the character, it's the experience of the person behind the wheel on the character. Grinding up your character from scratch will give you the edge over someone who just bought an account in PvP when it comes down to it.

Agreed, you look at the majority of people who buy accounts and try to PVP, they end up dying the most usually.  I won't name names but it's fairly obvious from Wild that just buying an account on Wurm doesn't help you get kills.

You'll be surprise i bought all of my account and only died 4 times pvping Killing 5x the amount of my deaths.Getting experience is easy grinding up a account is hard as ....

No, that's not accurate at all.  Maybe 4 times when you were on it, but letting others borrow it they died plenty, a lot more than people you killed.  Comparing it to people who leveled up their own accounts - they did better because of the experience.  It'll always be like that in most cases, I could name a list of boughten accounts who did terrible or never exceeded their original owner.

Basic case and point:  Doctorchaos.  PTO went to like 1700 on that account, killing people right outside Kyara, running around Gold Coast.  He sold it, and the next owner barely PvPed with it.  It got sold again and then just started dying.

You sure know a lot about me but, your wrong again. On my bought account i"ve killed more then deaths. Since you want to add sharing my account into this the people who use my account have killed more people on them then they died i would know because i play/live with them :)

I guess some people are lucky.

It all goes down to experience but in the end experience is easy to get unlike the skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only take objection to the selling of accounts.  Skills are a main point in playing the game, and if you aren't willing to get the skills yourself then you are really cheating.  It also keeps an uber character in play, using his crafting skills when the original player has quit, which prevents another player from becoming the next top dog in that skill.  Unfortunately, I see no way to prevent this, so all I can do is ask all players to let their character retire when they quit playing, so someone else can take your place in the game.  I myself now have 2 characters that would sell for quite a bit, but when I leave so will they.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never paid any real-life money for anything other than premium time. Yes, with money you can buy a super awesome 40 Body Control and 80 Fight Skill account with 90 Archery to attempt to whoop butt in PvP, but ultimately you'll still die because it's not the skill that supports the character, it's the experience of the person behind the wheel on the character. Grinding up your character from scratch will give you the edge over someone who just bought an account in PvP when it comes down to it.

Agreed, you look at the majority of people who buy accounts and try to PVP, they end up dying the most usually.  I won't name names but it's fairly obvious from Wild that just buying an account on Wurm doesn't help you get kills.

You'll be surprise i bought all of my account and only died 4 times pvping Killing 5x the amount of my deaths.Getting experience is easy grinding up a account is hard as ....

No, that's not accurate at all.  Maybe 4 times when you were on it, but letting others borrow it they died plenty, a lot more than people you killed.  Comparing it to people who leveled up their own accounts - they did better because of the experience.  It'll always be like that in most cases, I could name a list of boughten accounts who did terrible or never exceeded their original owner.

Basic case and point:  Doctorchaos.  PTO went to like 1700 on that account, killing people right outside Kyara, running around Gold Coast.  He sold it, and the next owner barely PvPed with it.  It got sold again and then just started dying.

You sure know a lot about me but, your wrong again. On my bought account i"ve killed more then deaths. Since you want to add sharing my account into this the people who use my account have killed more people on them then they died i would know because i play/live with them :)

I guess some people are lucky.

It all goes down to experience but in the end experience is easy to get unlike the skills.

You missed mine and what I believe Xallo's point.  The better players will always be the ones who earn and raise their own accounts, not who buy it.  No offense to you, but you were not on the same level as players like Nosyt or Xallo.  You still have (or had) a long way to go.  Buying an account is merely a shortcut but it won't help be the best, or even good. 

Either way I don't care, just sharing my views about it, and you're turning it personal.  If you had fun, great, glad you had fun, but I am just stating that buying an account hardly helps 95% of people wanting to pvp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game doesn't even require skill ever since the pvp system got dumbed down repeatedly because of whiners. You just need time or money and common sense, if you still fail then you're stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with it, Wurm is doing so weirdly because of the playerbase being small. It's like the settlers, your team won't do great if you only have 50 people, you need to expand out and get lots of people to work on things so you can expand much faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree completly with Vroomfondel on this one, the game (and all other games)  would be much better off if everyone thought like this. Uber accounts being handed over to new ppl intead of retired is very bad for the game and destroys some fun for newer players wanting to become someone in game. Sadly it's hard to stop it, probably impossible, so we have to just live with it.

Wurm's economy as a whole I can't really see anything wrong with, I think it's among the best I've seen. You can actually work in game and earn your premium payments. Almost everything can be bought with silvers from other players or obtained by crafting. Some players ar rich and some are poor (for different reasons) but really, it's not a problem untill you start to care about it. On a freedom server, why even care if some ppl have scale armor or not or how they obtained it? If someone wants to pay 250$ for a drake set, fine, just let them, I'll probably have more fun without it, building my characters from scratch and enjoying the journey.

Some more varied monsters to kill, even a few dragon spawns now and then, "public" dungeons with monsters and treausers to find etc would be a nice addition of course :)

These things will have to be added carfully of course, especially the rewards so not to risk destroying the economy with an inflation of nice looted gear. This is a crafters game after all and it should stay that way.¨

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah you cant say ohhh no cant do that, but  then say sure you got dibs on the ultra loot ( armors ) you can sell that all you want.

Accounts should stay for sale.

Same as anything else if you are going to stop it.....stop it all.

and also if you want Wurm Eco Light  I don't know if that will ever happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3. Staff

The GM team is not necessarily too small. It's just that they are not hired staff, but players, So their appearance is voluntary, dependent on time zones and somewhat irregular.

This is true, but at the same token, wurm is a complex enough game that i dont believe you would want someone who did not play trying to adjudicate many of the situations that we get called to.

Biggest problem though is the message system. they GM's don't get your message when they are on a different server. And the messages are so short, it's barely possible to get any meaning in there. So they wouldn't even have any information to try and help you while you are offline.

Thats incorrect, GM's (and our main play accts) can see /dev messages from any server, and respond to them as needed. What we cant do however is talk to people across servers, requiring us to actually move our GM acct to the server in question, which means that if we are involved in a call on the server we are currently on, even if all you need is a text reply, we cant send it until we finish up whatever we are currently working on.

As to the amount of information you can send, once you have sent a /dev you get a small tab that appears in your chat box named GM, you cant SEE anything that you type to it, but we can, so if you need to add some extra information you can do so. (just type it in once, it wont show up for you, but it does get sent)

about offline assistance, that is often a lot harder due to the way the game itself works. people who send a /dev about being stuck in a mine etc then log out dont get help because we have no way to help them.

The worst thing though, is that different GM react way different on issues with both hard and soft rules. Worst case I know of: trapping people in a mineshaft with indestructible freedom walls. Some GMs would simply destroy the trap. Another essentially said to wait for the absent mayor or stop playing wurm for 6 month until the deed would be disbanded and decayed.

Exploring in wurm is dangerous, mines can be extremely dangerous, and the number of times i have been called to a mine where someone is "trapped" only to discover that they jumped in to explore the mine and see if there was anything they could steal would probably boggle your mind. Thus we look over each case individually, and have to use our judgement on them quite often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In short, it's time for Wurm to go mainstream.

So micro-transactions, an extra 20 levels of skill cap every 6 months and a host of 'kill 20 boars for the trader' missions to progress then?

No I don't have anything constructive to say because I'm not sure what this thread's bickering about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for the clarification spellcast!

It's good to get this kind of information directly from a GM once in a while, talk has a tendency to warp it up. And I even got my info about the message system from a CA. Might be a good thing though if the Ticket window were enable so that it's more obvious.

While It's good that you can and use your judgement in individual cases, I have to object about what you said about this specific one.

Even Freedom rules say that you can take anything that is not properly secured by either hard or soft rules.

Also there is a rule that you can't "secure" your mine with a one-way trap. (after all some people might actually accidentally slide down the slope)

So even if it was a wannabe thief and/or you dislike him, as a GM you can't spite him by keeping him locked up. You should follow the rules and destroy the trap.

It may be appropriate if they jump down a deep dropshaft and the other end is properly secured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for the clarification spellcast!

It's good to get this kind of information directly from a GM once in a while, talk has a tendency to warp it up. And I even got my info about the message system from a CA. Might be a good thing though if the Ticket window were enable so that it's more obvious.

While It's good that you can and use your judgement in individual cases, I have to object about what you said about this specific one.

Even Freedom rules say that you can take anything that is not properly secured by either hard or soft rules.

Also there is a rule that you can't "secure" your mine with a one-way trap. (after all some people might actually accidentally slide down the slope)

So even if it was a wannabe thief and/or you dislike him, as a GM you can't spite him by keeping him locked up. You should follow the rules and destroy the trap.

It may be appropriate if they jump down a deep dropshaft and the other end is properly secured.

Dude its all case by case....you are not gonna get black and white.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, that's what I said... I was commenting on a special (if abstracted) case too.

Im starting to wonder as well if you really read what you are commenting on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, that's what I said... I was commenting on a special (if abstracted) case too.

Im starting to wonder as well if you really read what you are commenting on.

Well I disagree with your objection then. ;)

They do the best they can and its not always perfect an yeah players wont always like the outcomes, but they are doing a good job overall IMHO.

If you do not like something you can go to the head GM oracle and ask him to view your problem.  Sometimes they do make mistakes and things get changed.

As long as I have played I have seen every rule bent, distorted, and twisted in one way or another to try and get around what is stated in the rules sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

I can't even imagine dealing with players disputes in game, because I would tend to handle things in an extreme way.  ;D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is self-evident that the only reason there is so much drama over the dragons is becausethey hold high value items which are considerably unfair to the rest of the population, and I can't believe after all these years the drama has persisted.

Then why the hell did you create this thread if you want the drama to end? I havent seen a thread about dragons in months....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The drama originated from freedom isles. A group from deliverance organized a hunting event for our red dragon.

I think someone on exodus then did the same for theirs.

Then a group of former Wild players captured both dragons, put them in deeded pens and announced their own dragon killing event.

It went downhill from there (remember this is freedom we are talking about, this being not nice is a major reason for outrage)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Sever the ties between in-game currency and real-life currency.

This is just ignorant. Too many people have put too much money into this game for them to just be given the shaft. Myself NOT included, so I don't wanna hear any nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Sever the ties between in-game currency and real-life currency.

This is just ignorant. Too many people have put too much money into this game for them to just be given the shaft. Myself NOT included, so I don't wanna hear any nonsense.

I don't think he realizes a person can make cash after some time of work.

you can keep your premium indefinitely by paying for 2 months once, work hard and get a decent skill, and sell from that from then on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this