PvP Improvement

[Kadore 926]

While on the thought.

18.  Remove the ability for long and short swords to woodcut and butcher.  This obvious skill up against mauls seriously pushes the same old template.

Maul on a practice doll or aggro a creature in defensive that cant hit you and target another farther away for train via parry's, skilling with combat is still faster by far than woodcutting or using mauls on a doll to even bother to take the time to code it out.

If insist on making it a big deal allow mauls to skill to 20 bashing things.

[Zcul 303]

Just a small request: Please also include the reasoning why you want these adjustments made. Some are obvious for me, some are not.

thanks in advance

Zcul

[Mord 0]

Just a small request: Please also include the reasoning why you want these adjustments made. Some are obvious for me, some are not.

thanks in advance

Zcul

If you could just point out which of these are not apparent I would be better able to answer your question.

While on the thought.

18.  Remove the ability for long and short swords to woodcut and butcher.  This obvious skill up against mauls seriously pushes the same old template.

I gain more from butchering corpses than from fighting.  I don't even truly mind the 20 skill from woodcutting.  But why have an obvious advantage? 

If short swords can't cut trees, great.  They can still butcher. 

I gain body stats and skill running around with a 1 ql coc longsword/short sword.  Why should I even use a maul?

Instead of training longswords, or shortswords, you get to train butchering, cooking, swords, weapon skill.  SM, maul gets to train... maul.  How isn't this a 1, 2, 3 up?

modified cuz I always click post when I haven't finished thinking.

[Mord 0]

19.  Dodging on a horse.  I understand to a point some dodging is possible.  However, dodging should be limited on a horse.  I can understand a few thrusts and stabs here and there but full dodging is unacceptable imho.  Bonuses to damage, sure.  Faster movement, fine.  Able to be hit more often,  Yes. 

[MaverickG 6]

Dodges should be limited on mounts.

Mounts are kind of broken already, but definetly there needs to be some disadvantages to being on a horse.... i.e. Lower dodge, slow to get on a horse, damage to player if mount dies. (falling)  and horses should not be able to go in reverse unless very slowly.  A trained mount and skilled rider could go sideways.

Also.... impact damage. 8)

[Mord 0]

20.  Fo priest spell - regenerate.  Pre castable on a person and functions like a troll's regeneration ability.  CD 5 mins, favor and difficulty I don't much mind about as long as it has a CD.

[Touchmee 380]

20.  Fo priest spell - regenerate.  Pre castable on a person and functions like a troll's regeneration ability.  CD 5 mins, favor and difficulty I don't much mind about as long as it has a CD.

+1 this FO priests need a reason to be involved in pvp

[Gavin 971]

Can't agree with any of the suggestions put forward so far tbh, most of them just seem like they would make PvP even more annoying.

[ZarmaZarma 192]

Can't agree with any of the suggestions put forward so far tbh, most of them just seem like they would make PvP even more annoying.

I agree. All of the ones in the first post made me go "ugh".

[Mord 0]

You cannot provide any feedback other than you don't like it?  Don't bother posting please.

[snakegal 177]

You cannot provide any feedback other than you don't like it?  Don't bother posting please.

This is the suggestions thread, i think people are open to agreeing or disagreeing...

I do agree that pvp needs some improvement but i think some of these things indeed would make pvping a bit annoying, such as the pole arms having the dismount options and taking ages to remount (it already does for me, with the rubber banding and all that). And horses should add bonuses as they do in other games as well.

I agree that fo does need more pvp defense related skills. Maybe add some different spells to other priests as well to spice things up a little

[Touchmee 380]

i agree with any pvp improvements which will make it more tactical. at the moment its just a number game but being able to do things like dismount people in a certain way etc can only be good i dont see why people would want to keep pvp the way it is now its nothing more than boring (in my eyes anyway)

[Gavin 971]

You cannot provide any feedback other than you don't like it?  Don't bother posting please.

Okay then...

1.  When dismounted from a horse, do not allow instant remounting without huge CR losses.  The ability to remount instantly makes pvp more about killing horses, rather than killing people...  Aren't we suppose to kill each other?  (or have an interruptable timer)

As is, when a horse is hit it will absolutely cripple it's speed, I see absolutely no reason why horses should be further nerfed, especially when the actions you can do on a horse are extremely limited - the PvP and hunting system encourages constantly jumping off your horse and back on it, it makes no sense to penalize doing this when so many actions required (especially at a raid) give the message "you need to be on solid ground"

2.  Items like spears, halberds, etc have the "dismount" option.  Gained at a specific skill.  (If ability is blocked by a shield damage taken is based on weight of individual) (if ability is not blocked spear hits and more damage is taken based on the weight of an individual)  (no damage taken to armor from falling) (See number 1 again for remounting)

I have always been against features in Wurm that make it into more of a FPS style game, where you need to react incredibly quickly to stuff going on - to put it nicely it simply does not work in Wurm, it's not a FPS, it's incredibly laggy where you already have a plethora of things you need to pay attention to.

PvP needs to be made more simple, not more complex, and the amount of items you need to PvP should be lowered, not increased, you already have a shopping list several pages long before you have all the gear required to PvP. Haven't even touched the skills, it sounds like halbards and spears would be the new 'must grind' skill.

3.  No more longbows on a horse.  Short/Regular

This just makes no sense to me, firstly most PvPer's have grinded longbow so depending on their playstyle you might make their grind in said skill a waste of time, but furthermore - why? Realism aside archery has already been nerfed significantly, I see absolutely no reason to do this.

4.  Unable to wear platemail while shooting a bow (or having penalties while wearing plate)

First thing I would ask is: would this include a helm? If so, bad idea - it feels like it was only yesterday when arrows would one hit people via faceshots, walking through the forest and suddenly you see a red screen - there are _lots_ of archers with the faceshop option on Chaos (and likely even some on Epic) - encouraging people need to take their helm off is just not a good way to go.

But secondly I would ask: why? plate in general is already one of the most useless armors in the game, it's damage reduction and glance rate really isn't much better than chain and you move slow as all buggery, the only saving grace of it is you can still move fast wearing it when on a horse - but really, my question is; why nerf one of the most useless armors further?

5.  Synnergies between skills.  Added bonuses from similar skill types.  Bowyery/Fletching with Archery.  Weaponsmith melee weapons. 

I am not entirely against this but don't really see a reason to agree with it, as I have said several times in a game like Wurm it is simply impossible to make something that is 'kinda cool' - it will either be entirely useless or the new requirement.

Thus, I worry that if this was implimented, it will follow history and become the next thing people need to grind, especially with the suggestion of weaponsmithing benefiting melee fighting - my god, talk about a long grind to catch up - note that I probably stand to benefit if it was added as I have many of the skills you mention high, but it's just dumb imo.

6.  Make stealth a trainable skill (under thievery).

I have always been against these kind of changes, I lump them in the same category as swimming, running, or walking skills - to me, it's just another FW amulet like feature that will further discourage newer players from taking part in PvP, as people will literally run rings around them and dissapear every time they need to retreat and heal.

I have always thought stealth was a dumb feature, too, especially when it is easily countered by a priest - it just seems like a cheap way to make priests a requirement, kinda like how drowning forced people to use boats.

Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, if history is anything to go by it will probably end up becoming the 'new thing' that everyone has to grind.

7.  To prevent uberness: soft cap or hard cap on "pvp" skills.

This already exists on Epic with the Rule of 70, no?

8.  Allow Mag priests to imp weapons/armor.  Fo tailoring.  Vyn Carpentry.  Lib All 3 (@ -20%)

No real opinion on this.

---

I do agree that PvP needs changes, but PvP should be changed with the goals of making it more fun, easier to get involved with - and at the same time attempt to keep other peoples efforts worthwhile. I must disagree entirely with any changes that seem to just add more things you need to grind, more things you need to make, and even further widen the gap between new and old players.

If there is one thing people should have learnt from the fight fix, is you don't make something more fun by adding all sorts of features to it and making it excessively complex - before the fight fix it wasn't rare to have someone playing Wurm and in a couple of days be ready to PvP, due to the game mechanics if you were with a good group new players were essentially protected - now it's the complete reverse. You need all sorts of skills and items grinded before you can be PvP ready.

I have always thought people exaggerated the current requirements to be 'PvP ready' - but the last thing we need is to make it even harder.

I hope that explained my viewpoint sufficiently.

[Mord 0]

You cannot provide any feedback other than you don't like it?  Don't bother posting please.

This is the suggestions thread, i think people are open to agreeing or disagreeing...

I do agree that pvp needs some improvement but i think some of these things indeed would make pvping a bit annoying, such as the pole arms having the dismount options and taking ages to remount (it already does for me, with the rubber banding and all that). And horses should add bonuses as they do in other games as well.

I agree that fo does need more pvp defense related skills. Maybe add some different spells to other priests as well to spice things up a little

I am never against people disagreeing.  But why share your opinion without a reason behind the opinion?  Anyone can say (+1 or -1) it never helps. 

As for lag, everyone lags and everyone continues to remount 3-4 times in a 1v1 battle.  Stop the requirement of horses in pvp.

@Gavin:  "Okay then..."  ty

"This already exists on Epic with the Rule of 70, no?" What are you talking about?  70 isn't 100.  There is no limit on skills.

I am looking to make pvp more interesting... not a grind fest.  A pvp skill cap would prevent multiple weapon skills thus preventing someone from being able to run around on foot, dismount a person, stealth when they get low on health, etc, etc....  As it stands now you can literally grind every weapon skill for stats.  So I wonder why you are against the endless grind?

In all honesty can ANYONE fire a longbow thats 6 ft long while riding a horse (realism) let alone:

"As is, when a horse is hit it will absolutely cripple it's speed, I see absolutely no reason why horses should be further nerfed, especially when the actions you can do on a horse are extremely limited - the PvP and hunting system encourages constantly jumping off your horse and back on it, it makes no sense to penalize doing this when so many actions required (especially at a raid) give the message "you need to be on solid ground"

I also don't understand why being on solid ground has anything to do with pvp?  I swing my weapon just fine.  Further nerfing horses?  I'm not asking for a horse nerf.  I'm asking for people to stop dragging around 4 horses and jumping from horse, to horse, to horse...  Instead I'd rather like to be able to fight people, instead of people losing their horses and running away... 

Which actions require you to dismount while hunting?  Cutting up meat?  I can butcher a corpse just fine (unrealistic).  I can swing my weapon just fine.  Heck I can even shoot a 6ft tall longbow from a horse.  Pickup arrows off the ground, weapons, armor, drink water from the lake, fill my water skin, eat food while riding...  Gosh I just don't see what I can't do...  Or do you want to be able to mine, dig, chop trees, etc etc?  How about travel grinding on horses (you can imp arrows, leather, etc, etc, etc)

There is WAY to much emphasis on horses as it is.  PvP requires a horse.  STOP requiring a horse! I'm attempting to lower the needs required for pvp, make everyone viable regardless of gear, weapon skill, etc.

4.  Unable to wear platemail while shooting a bow (or having penalties while wearing plate)

This includes arm pieces, chest, hands.  There are math coefficients already in place for these pieces of armor, add negative hit chance on those as well.  Again, lets have less requirements for pvp.  If platemail is so useless why do people use it?  From my calculations the damage mitigation and deflection rate are insanely high compared to chain.

Make all armor pieces viable. 

edited for niceness

[Gavin 971]

What are you talking about?  70 isn't 100.  There is no limit on skills.

The 'rule of 70' makes, iirc, 70 skill like 90% effective - so there is little to gain from grinding 70 onwards.

[Mord 0]

Except for stats.  Which are really the only reason to continue, and that is a huge reason to keep going.  I was also told we don't gain stats after 70... it isn't true.

So, hard or soft pvp skill cap would be best. 

[nervesplitter 0]

I was thinking of this:

Cover system, if standing behind a low stone wall you can duck and be protected from arrows from 1 way but unable to do anything other than move.

[snakegal 177]

i don't think "realism" applies to wurm very much

Horses should be a clear advantage over someone on foot (that realism thing) however, getting your horse killed shouldn't mean you are dead, which at the moment is usually the case (from experience anyway)

[Mord 0]

i don't think "realism" applies to wurm very much

Horses should be a clear advantage over someone on foot (that realism thing) however, getting your horse killed shouldn't mean you are dead, which at the moment is usually the case (from experience anyway)

Not always the case for a horse to be a clear advantange.  horseman vs swordsman... advantage.  horseman vs spearman not an advantage. (realism) 

The only part of this game that isn't realistic is the combat.  Most of why the combat isn't realistic is due to horse hopping (entirely unrealistic).  But now we're just being technical and splitting hairs.

Also it seems to me that you agree that something should be done about horses in combat. 

I was thinking of this:

Cover system, if standing behind a low stone wall you can duck and be protected from arrows from 1 way but unable to do anything other than move.

Being able to duck behind a low stone wall would be cool.  Way better than the current system of gate hopping, etc.

[stalk 32]

1+ To this thread!

Pvp is at the moment still very unbalanced. Horses are in my opinion the main thing that ruins pvp.

[Protunia 735]

+1

To Pole arms being able to dismount people off their horses.

What are ya scared??

I mean a guy can't even lead or get on his horse while being attacked the least option he should have is to knock you off of yours.

This would give polearms a use and players could actually joust with them.

Otherwise allow players to lead and mount when being attacked by someone else.

[Protunia 735]

Also you should not be able to butcher and bury from on the horse and should have to dismount to do these actions.

As far as this horse hopping?? LMAO...

Remove it completely if you are dismounted  or dismount you lose control of all horses while in combat.

[Mord 0]

@Protunia:

What about decreased dodge chance while mounted, maintain increased damage while mounted?  Increased dodge chance while unmounted?

The current +CR bonus (bad) of polearms vs mounted players doesn't work.  I don't know who tested it, though it still isn't viable.

[Protunia 735]

@Protunia:

What about decreased dodge chance while mounted, maintain increased damage while mounted?  Increased dodge chance while unmounted?

The current +CR bonus (bad) of polearms vs mounted players doesn't work.  I don't know who tested it, though it still isn't viable.

I would start with simple changes, but you could add things like that through testing on the test server first to make sure its balanced.

[Mord 0]

Yes of course.  I'd rather have it tweaked to pretty darn good than rushed.