Completely abolish "Spies", + Kingdom changes (War, Neutral, Ally)

[RainRain 591]

This would mean to just disallow a certain player from owning a character in more then one kingdom (Save for freedom accounts.)

Spies discourage many things and in all honesty, are more then just a bit "Antifun" as some call it.

It's a sad day when whatever you can speak about in kchat is limited due to spies.

There's about no reason a person should have an account in multiple kingdoms other then for trade, To fix this, allow trading via kingdoms, even if nuetral, and allow kingdoms to "Go to war" completely, selected by a king via his sceptre (Or whatever they use to set things.), Which marks them as "ENEMIES", dissalows trading and whispering.

Nuetral kingdoms would show up as blue outline, Warred as red, and allied as green.

This would allow a bit more "Customization" of PMK's (Have it so all default kingdoms are at war with each other, and only JK and MR can ally if they wish to, Hots is at default war with all kingdoms.)

Neutral kingdoms can trade, and are not aggro'd by guards,

but by templars after a few seconds, where templars state "Outsider, Leave this place at once!", This is configurable by the mayor (A tick to say "Attack Neutral Kingdoms").

These changes should, however, only come after when the unstable client transfers to stable, and the mouseover kingdom-telling function works fully.

[vinius 1,506]

All of these things are already in the game, aren't they...?

[RainRain 591]

All of these things are already in the game, aren't they...?

Don't believe the "War" thing is, as i stated.

Every pmk should be at default Neutral with other kingdoms, and from there War/Ally with them via king's descretion. At then, Abolish spies completely, disallow owning a alt account in any other kingdom and any reason TO have one, by permitting trade between two un-warring kingdoms.

[vinius 1,506]

The reason kingdoms are automatically aggressive towards each other is because it is a PVP game, and tower guards and deed guards will prevent spying.

As for trading, you have to simply do so by dropping the items/money, and then going your separate ways.

[RainRain 591]

The reason kingdoms are automatically aggressive towards each other is because it is a PVP game, and tower guards and deed guards will prevent spying.

As for trading, you have to simply do so by dropping the items/money, and then going your separate ways.

PvP =/= No alliances.

Specially since the whole factor of alliance is THERE.

The thing is:

The purpose of this thread is to remove spies, and effectively, having any alts in any enemy kingdom (Exception of freedom.)

However, that factor removes kingdom by kingdom trading, Which people will complain about, and others will use as an excuse for spying.

To fix this, allow kingdom trading for any allied, or neutral kingdom, and not those at war, To do this, a neutral system will be added, and JK/MR will be able to ally (Temporarily, obviously) Or neutralize, in order to trade, and so will any other kingdom (Except HoTs, which is naturally against any other kingdom.)

Meaning, If JK and MR are allied, they can travel freely between their lands, if they are neutral, they can trade and can travel between their influences, and some deeds (Toggable.)., And if at war, cannot either (without going through guards and templars, anyways.)

Neutral will be able to drain and pvp enemies just as always, But they can now trade and whisper, and mail.

Once trading is cleared, any valid reason to have a alt in any enemy kingdom is now removed, And spy alts can now be completely abolished.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

This would mean to just disallow a certain player from owning a character in more then one kingdom

I'm not in Wurm PvP but in RL IT and I'm asking myself how you'd ever think to accomplish this?

What in the world is hindering me to make another account?

My IP changes as soon as I reboot my router.

You don't see my MAC address, and they are easily changeable, anyways.

EMail accounts are free all over the place, I can have as many as I desire.

Any of my friends will pay for my Premium, if I give them cash.

Have I missed something? Is there really a working way to "disallow a certain player from owning a character in more then one kingdom"?

No? Then: Sorry, don't be mad now plz, but this is pointless. You cannot do anything to block this spy problem, maybe besides to create a game mechanic that makes spies pointless.

Have a good time, hope I could help!

[Kingtren 64]

Actually to enlighten on that give each client its own P.I (personal identification) make a more suitable download of the game, Make it so only 1 copy can be installed. Then problem solved you limit the client to one kingdom. If that makes any sense. Im not saying it should be done just clarifying that it can be done.

[RainRain 591]

And with that, just because some people will break rules to bypass the system doesn't mean actions against it shouldn't be taken.

They'd to be eventually found out, regardless.

[Raybarg 458]

No.

Currently I have friends in about all kingdoms.

I want to be able to play with them even though I focus on one character the most.

The prevention to run 2 clients in different kingdoms but in same server at the same time is enough.

And no I am not spying. But changing the system to prevent the way we're now able to play would most probably not remove spying but make players like me unable to continue to play the way I play.

[RainRain 591]

No.

Currently I have friends in about all kingdoms.

I want to be able to play with them even though I focus on one character the most.

The prevention to run 2 clients in different kingdoms but in same server at the same time is enough.

And no I am not spying. But changing the system to prevent the way we're now able to play would most probably not remove spying but make players like me unable to continue to play the way I play.

You'd still be able to unless you're hots, who is themed to be savages anyways.

[Klaa 4,871]

Seriously doubt "spies" will be abolished any time soon for several reasons... one of which is a lack of any practical means for ID'ing.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

Actually to enlighten on that give each client its own P.I (personal identification) make a more suitable download of the game, Make it so only 1 copy can be installed.

I have 2 computers at my disposal, each one capable to run several Virtual Machines that allow at least basic participation in Wurm, enough for a spy.

If necessary, any of these 4 -8 Wurm installations can have it's own personalized installer, a unique IP, a unique MAC, a unique EMail as well as an unique account.

This is no rocket science. Anybody with a half ways new gamer machine and a bit of knowledge can do this.

And with that, just because some people will break rules to bypass the system doesn't mean actions against it shouldn't be taken.

The problem is this:

a.) you cannot take serious action against this. It's just too easy to circumvent, and it will be circumvented, especially in a competitive environment.

b.) any tries to take actions against this will hurt just the innocents, while the baddies will laugh at your actions.

So, any measures against dual clients ("spies") are in vain per definition. They will not hinder any determined evildoer, but hurt the common player.

You can create any restrictions you want, you can test IP's and MAC's, you can only allow 1 avatar per credit card and postal address, you can ask for RL identification of the players, but all you'll ever achieve is this:

- the baddies will laugh at you, and happily continue.

- the honest common players will leave you due to a security madness they'll not accept.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on Wild nor on Epic, I'm not part of the ongoing drama. But I love this game, and I want to be helpful with the knowledge I have.

IMHO the best & only way to fight the "spy problem" would be to make spies plain obsolete, with some new game mechanics. Talking about what could be done in this way would be your part, my knowledge in Wurmian PvP structures is non-existent. But this would be, IMHO, the only way to get rid of the problem you describe.

Any technical solution to restrict accounts is doomed. I hope I have been able to show you why.

Have a good time!

[darthryan 588]

If there's a spy in your kingdom, kill+KOS.... if you don't know who the spy is, go back to Freedom.

[Klaa 4,871]

That is one practical way to deal with the metagame "issue" (I personally do not consider it to be an issue). Adding support ingame for spy activities along with countering abilities might help. A simple example would be disquises and ways to see through them... Two Doughboys in local, which should I kill? Answer: Both of them, hehe

Cloaks to obscure identities, etc.

[Andius 0]

That is one practical way to deal with the metagame "issue" (I personally do not consider it to be an issue). Adding support ingame for spy activities along with countering abilities might help. A simple example would be disquises and ways to see through them... Two Doughboys in local, which should I kill? Answer: Both of them, hehe

Cloaks to obscure identities, etc.

This. There isn't a good way to make it so people can't have a character in more than one kingdom since this game is one character per account. Creating in-game mechanics that allow people to spy from their main account is a interesting way of dealing with the problem. Having a disguise skill that would change your name and make you show as a character from another kingdom unless they somehow manage to see through your disguise would be a really cool mechanic for sure. Maybe they could finally make a skill for the stealth ability other than body control and add some disguise option to it.

The other thing I would do, is HoTs home doesn't need to be premium only. Because of free players spies are an issue. But not for HoTs. Its seriously unbalancing that they can hide free accounts on our server listening to our chat and scouting out our tokens while we would have to create a premium alt to do the same to them.

[Protunia 735]

+1  Make them all have their ID verified and attached to a valid credit card and/or checking account.

1 player per account period if you are found exploiting your characters are all deleted and you are banned permanently.

Yeah 100% need to have accountability and limit the number players people use as spies on PvP servers.

[darthryan 588]

1 player per account.... wow... spying and alts are all part of the fun, if you want standard PvP go play some other game.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

+1  Make them all have their ID verified and attached to a valid credit card and/or checking account.

1 player per account period if you are found exploiting your characters are all deleted and you are banned permanently.

Knock knock!

Me: "Who's out there?"

Wroooom!

Me: "Hey, who's smashing my front door?"

Rof: "You required to log onto Wild, rite?"

Me: "Umppf, what? Yep"

Rof: "ID verify - is it really you, or are you a friend of yours, spying?"

Me: "Ouch, what ya doin? You're hurting me!"

Rof: "Blood test, DNA compare, hold on!"

Me: " ... "

Rof: "OK, ID verify passed, you are really you, happy PvP!"

Me: "Thank you ..."

1/4h later, connection problem, disconnect, logging in again.

Knock Knock!

Me: "Come in, Rof, door is open ..."

(to be repeated)

Have a good time ;-)))

[Dextrome 123]

I'm all for the alliance/war system. But detecting an alt belongs to a certain player is an impossible thing without seriously inconveniencing all of your players.