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Lobber

New Map for Exodus HERE

Should deed owners who do not want their settlement listed be removed from the map, for a fee?  

216 members have voted

  1. 1. Should deed owners who do not want their settlement listed be removed from the map, for a fee?

    • No, the map is public property, and the community has the right to see all settlements listed. No change to the current system.
      102
    • No, the deed owners who want their settlement removed should have them removed from the map, no charge. No private map with all settlements listed.
      100
    • No, there should be two maps, one public with private settlements unlisted (no charge), and a privately distributed (pay to view) map with all settlements listed.
      3
    • Yes, two maps, public map with private settlements removed for a fee, and a privately listed map with all settlements listed viewable for a fee.
      4
    • Yes, the deed owners who want their settlement removed may be charged a fee for having their deed removed from the map. No private map with all settlements listed.
      7
    • I want to suggest a different system, my idea is posted below.
      1


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Nice map, but you should really use some more distinctive colors. Grass, steppe, clay, moss, its hard to tell sometimes.

Also why are there two different greens for grass and yellows for sand?

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That is a well thought out argument.

Here is my point of view:

If someone got lost somewhere, and they knew about a nearby deed, and then looked on the map that was supposedly an exhaustive map of all of Exodus and all villages, and they did not see that deed they are near to find where they are and how to get back home, they would still be lost, and curse the map for not having "hidden deed not listed on the map."

I will go with the lowest common denominator, and list everyone who has a deed on the map, regardless of their opinion as to wanting to be on the map, or not.

That is my final decision. Thank you all for your input on this matter.

No charges to be removed, as no one is exempt from being added to the map.

It is my personal property, so therefore my prerogative to list everything I find as I travel about. I post updates here out of generosity toward the rest of the community.

If you don't like having your deed on the map, too bad.

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I will go with the lowest common denominator, and list everyone who has a deed on the map, regardless of their opinion as to wanting to be on the map, or not.

Seriously?  You're going to completely ignore the results of the poll, where over 75% of the responders have made the same choice?  For a poll, 75% is quite decisive, especially with so many options offered.  Then why bother offering the poll if you don't plan to consider the results?

Well, I for one, don't appreciate having my chain jerked.

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I am not ignoring the results of the poll. I let everyone have their say, then I made my decision. I never said that the decision to change the map was going to be based upon poll results. I respect everyone's right to express their opinion. But in the end, it is my map, therefore, my decision.

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I personally couldnt care less if my deed is on it or not - I didnt even vote - but it does look like youve put up the poll only in hope people would vote what you wanted to do so you can point at them.

(As the only other logical explanation would be that you really decided after the poll result but you intentionally want to go against popular opinion, which I doubt.)

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PPS- I'd like the southern mountain to be named, Sheriff Mountain :) Hopefully to be considered an in-kind reciprocation for some of the ingame contributions I've made to Southern Ex. Practically, every deed on or around that mountain has come and gone. Except Sheriff  8)

I approve for naming the mountain Sheriff Mountain.

Thank you sir. All living in the area and opposed, say nay?

......

And the I's have it. Approved.

I also propose that your area be called Kusa Grove :)

Thanks Lobber!

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It's a sandbox. Lobber is free to do what he wants with *his property*. He just opened up Pandora's box by asking for opinions. Best not to have done that but whatever.

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I think what is left to decide here is what is the most important issue?

I listed one or two deeds out of almost a hundred on the map so far who didn't want to be mapped out, and I should be flamed over it.

or

I made an accurate map that people can actually use to find where they are, and where they want to go.

The poll did have one positive result, most people would be highly irate if i had two maps, and charged people to have their deed unlisted.

Some might consider that extortion. And since I am not an extortionist, I chose to list everyone impartially. A very small minority don't want to be listed.

The majority do want to be listed or don't care if they are listed. Therefore, I have not gone against popular opinion, rather, I have chosen the majority course.

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So in going the Majority course if People ask to not be listed are you going to be accomadating to that request or are you going to be the ITs my map i do what I want person ?

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A very small minority don't want to be listed.

Therefore, I have not gone against popular opinion, rather, I have chosen the majority course.

my thoughts are that it doesn't hurt to be listed... but privacy is nice to have when you want it.

maybe a color code for deeds.

color A for public areas

color B for private

color C for people who don't care, but aren't inviting.

doesn't matter with the damn server down, in any case.

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I am going to list every deed people ask me to put on the map, and I'm going to list every deed I find, and I am going to visit every location on Exodus to ensure no deed is left out. My map will be exhaustive and list everything.

Some of the arguments are fallacious, and others are downright ridiculous. The only information about a deed is its name, and location on the map. I am not violating anyone's rights. One of the reasons is because you don't have a right to privacy, as you do not own anything in game. You don't own the silver you buy. It states that right in the policy. Therefore, you don't have the right to opt out of a map of the game world.

Now, can we get back to adding deeds to the map please? Please reply with your deeds name, and x,y coordinate, and specific location within the grid tile. No other information is required, unless you want to update the geography to be more accurate, or you want to name a geographical location.

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Lobber I appreciate your hard work, the map does make things easy but my favorite role is the devil's advocate...

People have given you reasonable reasons for not wanting their location given; just because you are biased doesn't mean their concerns are not justified.

People play this game in what ever fashion they want, role play or what have you, there is not a mapping system in the game and they are not taking your ability to map; they just don't want there places on it and presented in a public forum. You say no on has given you a valid argument, breaking the FCC (Freedom Code of Conduct) is as valid as you can get and your poll proves it...

Players on freedom are able to do many things that affect the game world, which in turn affects ALL other players. Just because you CAN do something, does not mean that you SHOULD do something. If your actions will actively and negatively affect someone elses gameplay, DO NOT DO IT, discuss this with them first.

You are affecting peoples (75% of your poll) game play negatively with your map. If they don't want their place easily found, a role-play action in the game and a part of the game play, by using your map then indeed you are affecting their game play.

Now again as I warned you in chat; be reasonable before all your hard work is for not those who do not want to be listed, remove them; you have no valid excuse not too other then to grief (another violation). You have to put the names on the map it is not like it is a side effect of some automatic process; you could try to use as an excuse. Taking the names out of the public version does not affect your game play since you have the private version to do as you wish.

In case you haven't thought of it, keep a blank copy of your map then if someone requests the removal all you have to do is copy from the clear map over the spot you need to remove.

I am going to go out on a limb and say a large number of the 75% are people swayed to vote negatively against you just because of your attitude on all this. It appears the only reason you put up the poll was you thought people would vote the other way so you could use it; but since it didn't you're throwing the results out.

Safe Travels

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Lobber I appreciate your hard work, the map does make things easy but my favorite role is the devil's advocate...

People have given you reasonable reasons for not wanting their location given; just because you are biased doesn't mean their concerns are not justified.

People play this game in what ever fashion they want, role play or what have you, there is not a mapping system in the game and they are not taking your ability to map; they just don't want there places on it and presented in a public forum. You say no on has given you a valid argument, breaking the FCC (Freedom Code of Conduct) is as valid as you can get and your poll proves it...

Players on freedom are able to do many things that affect the game world, which in turn affects ALL other players. Just because you CAN do something, does not mean that you SHOULD do something. If your actions will actively and negatively affect someone elses gameplay, DO NOT DO IT, discuss this with them first.

You are affecting peoples (75% of your poll) game play negatively with your map. If they don't want their place easily found, a role-play action in the game and a part of the game play, by using your map then indeed you are affecting their game play.

Now again as I warned you in chat; be reasonable before all your hard work is for not those who do not want to be listed, remove them; you have no valid excuse not too other then to grief (another violation). You have to put the names on the map it is not like it is a side effect of some automatic process; you could try to use as an excuse. Taking the names out of the public version does not affect your game play since you have the private version to do as you wish.

In case you haven't thought of it, keep a blank copy of your map then if someone requests the removal all you have to do is copy from the clear map over the spot you need to remove.

I am going to go out on a limb and say a large number of the 75% are people swayed to vote negatively against you just because of your attitude on all this. It appears the only reason you put up the poll was you thought people would vote the other way so you could use it; but since it didn't you're throwing the results out.

Safe Travels

I will respond to your arguments line by line, and point out your errors in logic.

First of all, most people responding to the thread think that I should remove deeds upon request from the map. You are therefore not playing devil's advocate, since that would actually put you on my side of the argument.

Second line you mentioned that I am biased. May I ask what I am biased towards? It is not clear what grounds you claim I am biased.

Your third line actually supports my creating a map, because, as you state it: "there is not a mapping system in the game." You are absolutely right. That is why I am creating a map, and why I am adding deeds to it. People want to know where they are, and where they can go, and without my map, they would still be looking at the old map, and getting quite confused because it does not represent the island of Exodus very well.

Now, you quoted some rule or principle. However, you didn't provide the source, or a link. I can only assume it has something to do with the Freedom Code of Conduct. So lets say this quote represents the FCC. It would appear that you are implying that my creating a map affects players game play. This is false. Things that do affect game play for instance, are actions taken in the game, as well as speech within the game. Those things take place WITHIN the game affect game play. This map is offline, therefore, it is static, and does not stop a person from digging a hole, or building a house. Making a map also does not stop a person from logging on, stop a person from founding a new deed, or stop a person from having fun in the game. Your argument to apply the Freedom Code of Conduct simply does not apply to making a map and mapping out the land, including player owned deeds.

In your forth line, you misapplied and misinterpreted statistical data. You state that I am negatively affecting 75% of the player base with my map. Please review the poll question and the poll options one more time. If you actually read it, you will find that the number of votes do not represent people negatively affected, rather, the poll ACTUALLY asks if I should charge a fee to remove deeds from the map.

Please read that again. The poll asks if I should charge a fee to remove deeds from the map. It does not ask if people are negatively affected by having deeds listed on the map. Game play of these players is therefore not affected by listing deeds on the map.

To gain some perspective on the matter, the current map has 83 deeds listed on it. If you review the posts on page four, you will note that two, and only two players complained about their deed being listed on the map. Two out of Eighty Three. That's 2.4% of the player base being unhappy about their deed being listed on the map. 2.4% is a far cry from 75%. Please get your facts straight before you misapply and misinterpret statistical data.

I am trying to piece together your argument in paragraph five. What I did catch is that you are calling me a griefer. This is a baseless accusation and also a personal attack on me. Personal attacks have no place on this forum or in this thread. Please recant your accusation. Creating a map for all players in Exodus is not griefing. If you recall, for a very long time people have been complaining about the map we had before I published this one. They were all praise for my map. Perhaps in upsidedown world, making everyone happy is griefing, but in this world, it isn't.

I won't address paragraph six, because you are telling me how to do my job, and that is unecessary.

Last paragraph you are again misapplying the statistics that came out of the poll. It was not about me using a poll to justify actions. I made the poll to find out if charging to take a deed off the map was popular or not. It was not. Therefore, I posted that I would not charge to take deeds off the map, instead, I would include all deeds on the map. In fact, I am not throwing any results out the window, I have listened to the community and decided that charging to remove deeds from the map would be very unpopular, and accusations of extortion are very ugly. Since I am not an extortionist, I will not charge to remove deeds from the map.

Thank you for your gracious reply. Please consider all I have said. I do not wish this to be a flame war, I am trying to do the right thing here.

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I love it. (My deed was added without my approval, either, I hereby approve. ;-) )

It's far more accurate than the old one.

@Deed adding: Whenever the ingame option of hiding ur deed (or deed name) comes active, I'd reconsider. Up until then, the location of a deed is as public as it can be, as everyone can go there and see it. So a cartographer can, as well, and add it to a map. I do not see a point in not adding it.

Thanks at Lobber for this nice map!

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It is, for me. :-(

OnTopic:

There seems to be an error in the legends - or it might be that I just don't get it. Why are there two shades of green for grass? Is one supposed to be forest, maybe?

Also in the legend, there is a marker for roads. What defines a road to be included in the map? Cause I believe there is a road from Esert through East Silverfall, Tulgey Woods and Solace all the way to Gatley Hollow (which ought to be one tiny bit more to the east, as it is right south of the little lake). Forking right before Gatley Hollow, another road leads up to Pinewood Heights. This latest little piece was build by me, so I'd be proud of ot showed on a map. :-)

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Lobber mentioned roads could always be added later. I think the only roads being added right now are ones that connect two landmasses over a body of water.

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My thoughts on adding roads, I don't want to add a road wherever someone built some tiles of cobblestone, but actual long, very very long, connected tiles of cobblestone roads that connect two or more deeds together, and facilitate long distance travel.

And yes, I will be adding those soon. Especially the one's I use all the time.

Oh, btw, I just updated the map with placenames of Geographical locations.

/puts on flame resistant dragon scale

Feel free to object, suggest, or admire.

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hi lobber,

take your map and become happyness! i will use the normally community-map. i dont need another map!

"Go with God .... but go!!!!"

your problem is that you are arrogant to think that you can dictate all.

by us you will become "ignore" and "kos" and you will be on our blacklist because we dont like such ignorant and arrogant player who think that they can do what they want.

chikiza

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May I choose a combination of suggest and admire?

Naming landmarks are great, but the font u used kind of confuses the real map, making it harder to read. Maybe use a less ... squiggly (is that an appropriate word? non native english speaker here) font and reduce it in size a little bit?

And seeing that Tulgey named his Deed after the Wood or the other way around, I think of my place as Pinewood Heights. Not sure wether that's only my deed or the place around it, too, since it's obviusly named after all the pines that surround me on the little hill.

@Chikiza: I am tempted to put on "ignore" and "kos" players that put on "ignore" and "kos" someone building this nice map and adding publicly available information to it. Probably won't, have to think it through.

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hi lobber,

take your map and become happyness! i will use the normally community-map. i dont need another map!

"Go with God .... but go!!!!"

your problem is that you are arrogant to think that you can dictate all.

by us you will become "ignore" and "kos" and you will be on our blacklist because we dont like such ignorant and arrogant player who think that they can do what they want.

chikiza

That is your prerogative. Just be warned that I can return the favor.

I do have some arrogance. And as far as my map goes, I do dictate how it will be drawn.

On the other hand, I have been asking for suggestions on many things, including naming locations and geographical features.

If you study the map closely, you will notice that many places are named by suggestions given by other players.

If I was truly an arrogant and ignorant player as you suggest, I would not have named such places as...

  • Sheriff Mountain
  • Irie Loch
  • Green Bay
  • Wolf Island, North and South
  • Lake Thornfield
  • Lake Serpentine
  • Hippie Lakes
  • Union Lake
  • Shallow Bay
  • Avrad Harbor
  • Twin Peaks
  • Lake Esert
  • The Great Southern Steppe

All of those places were named by others, not me.

Need I go on?

So much for your theory of my arrogance.

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Hello,

i think it would be much easyer, it they simply would add the ability to the game, to create you own map in any way, where you can mark places you discovered. We can have a Compass and lots of other stuff, but we don't have a map. People 2000 years ago had maps, so why we don't?

Kaiva

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not necessarily in order...

First of all, most people responding to the thread think that I should remove deeds upon request from the map. You are therefore not playing devil's advocate, since that would actually put you on my side of the argument.

Devils Advocate - A person who takes a stance he/she does not necessarily agree with. Again, I like your map but I play the voice of someone who does not.

Second line you mentioned that I am biased. May I ask what I am biased towards? It is not clear what grounds you claim I am biased.

Biased - Influence unfairly to invoke favoritism; It's my map I'll do what I want no matter what you think or say attitude, no I did not quote you, it is a perception.

Now, you quoted some rule or principle. However, you didn't provide the source, or a link. I can only assume it has something to do with the Freedom Code of Conduct. So lets say this quote represents the FCC.

Especially since I did say where it came from, a link should not be necessary since it is your obligation to know the rules of the game. Typically, when one

respect other people's opinions
they actually pay attention to the opinion.

It would appear that you are implying that my creating a map affects players game play. This is false. Things that do affect game play for instance, are actions taken in the game, as well as speech within the game. Those things take place WITHIN the game affect game play. This map is offline, therefore, it is static, and does not stop a person from digging a hole, or building a house. Making a map also does not stop a person from logging on, stop a person from founding a new deed, or stop a person from having fun in the game. Your argument to apply the Freedom Code of Conduct simply does not apply to making a map and mapping out the land, including player owned deeds.

{edit}meant to be a question

Are you implying it is impossible to affect someone game play from outside of the game?

1. They are using the map to play the game, no?

2. Does the map not affect their game play? hint hint "makes it easier to find locations in the game"

Yes, 2.4% complained about you posting their deed but I said negatively, not limiting the only 2 who specifically complained about their deed. You said

most people responding to the thread think that I should remove deeds upon request from the map
, of course I am assuming removing would be negative for you, most would be more then 2.4%.

Actually I don't know the true percentage as I have not even voted so the scores are not displayed; I took the number from another post on this thread..

Seriously?  You're going to completely ignore the results of the poll, where over 75% of the responders have made the same choice?  For a poll, 75% is quite decisive, especially with so many options offered.  Then why bother offering the poll if you don't plan to consider the results?

Well, I for one, don't appreciate having my chain jerked.

You did not argue the 75% on the post so I used it, I take responsibility for inaccurate data.

I am trying to piece together your argument in paragraph five. What I did catch is that you are calling me a griefer. This is a baseless accusation and also a personal attack on me. Personal attacks have no place on this forum or in this thread.

Again, you took things out of context or is it a guilty conscience? I did not say "you griefer" nor did I say "you are a griefer", I merely gave the option of griefing, so there is nothing to recant.

I won't address paragraph six, because you are telling me how to do my job, and that is unecessary.

I was not telling you how to do your job, I was telling you how to make things simple on yourself. This is a job for you?

I am trying to do the right thing here

The right thing would be to try and make everyone happy; an almost impossible task but I hope, you can do better.

Safe Travels

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