Fencing in large area without a deed...

[jackbeau 29]

There is ppl that fence in large area (100+ x 20+ tile approx) without a deed or gates to pass thru. from about 15Y 15X to the lake east. Deliv.

No houses to be seen for miles...

That is just greedy.

If I owned this game I would not allow this. Building fences +- 4-5 tiles from your deed is ok.

When I asked a Dev about this, I was told it is ok. Maybe a few of us should fence in a few area 1,000 by 1,000 tiles.

If i designed the game, you would not be allowed to build fences more than 10 tiles away from your deed.

If f2p...sure build a 20 x 20 fenced area. ppl will see your house and respect that.

If a newcomer wants to build a deed in a large fenced non-deed area and there is no deed within 40+ tiles, he should be able to destroy a fence to get in and build in.

[Wulfgar 1,114]

There is ppl that fence in large area (100+ x 100+ tile) without a deed or gates to pass thru.

That is just greedy.

If a newcomer wants to build a deed in a large fenced non-deed area, he should be able to destroy a fence to get in and build in.

1)How do you know there isn't a deed inside the fenced area? You say you can't enter because there are no gates.

2) If newcomers can destroy fences, how do you think that would work out?

I have never seen a 100x100 area fenced in, which server is it on and where?

[einnel 13]

The rules state that any fenced in area outside of a deed must, to remain protected by the rules against demolishing, be fully encircling an area and be connected to a house that is visible from all points around the compound.

Maintenance for the huge amounts of fences/walls needed to encircle large tracts of land is a lot of work, and is the trade-off for doing it.

To implement a change that would deny players to fence in anything if they do not own a deed would mean that you'd practically be condemning deedless players to a life of zero security, leaving them open to be robbed by anyone.

I understand your frustration with it, but your suggestion would break more than it fixes.

-1

However, take heart. If you're searching for unspoiled lands there exists tonnes of it if you only take a look at the map and head towards the places where there's no deed text.

[Bachus 462]

A 100x100 un-deeded enclosure would require at least 400 tiles of fences and with the decay rate as it is each would have to be repaired once every 2 weeks.  The amount of time needed to repair and maintain such an area is a large deterrent.  If such places do exist the person will quickly get bored with doing nothing but repairing all the time and they will decay.

Fixed it.

[atazs 965]

A 100x100 deed would require at least 400 tiles of fences and with the decay rate as it is each would have to be repaired once every 2 weeks.  The amount of time needed to repair and maintain such an area is a large deterrent.  If such places do exist the person will quickly get bored with doing nothing but repairing all the time and they will decay.

I know a 100x100 deed where there are no damages at all on deed. And it costs around 1-2gold a month. Its not fenced in tho

[RomaN 890]

There is a xenophobic bunch based just outside of the Grand Steppe (Independence) who constructed a low stone wall around an area roughly 100x100 in size around their 3 small deeds located on the main road.

The construction of this fence perimeter is completely off-deed and blocked off/destroyed a new and unmapped public road that we created a few months ago. You also can not see their deed from any corner of this stone wall.

Recently, a passer-by told me that they were using me as a scapegoat, accusing me of killing off animals around their "territory" even though I no longer live in the Grand Steppe and were using this argument as a way to justify the construction of that eye-sore of a stone wall.

I personally don't like it when people build massive walls around areas off-deed (eg: Private hunting grounds, giant tree farms, etc). It's almost as bad as people fencing around clay deposits and locking it up. It's land-grabbing in it's simplest form. Even if it's not maintained and starts decaying, it still destroys the landscape and beauty of the area and makes all other neighboring deeds look ugly and displaced around it.

[Lüdwig 0]

I've seen a place recently, it consists of a deed with next to it a huuuge walled off area. Its quite close to the starter town. From what I understood, the owner of said land did this  "to prevent griefing". If I had to make an estimate, Id guess its around at least 50 by 50 tiles wide (2500 tiles in total), the fencing - probably its more than that. Theres a wooden gatehouses every so often. The fencing was done with decorative fences at first (the woodscrap fences) which arent even supposed to keep people out. As theyre decaying now, theyre being replaced with wooden fences.

I think it is incredibly rude and antisocial to fence off such a huge area, that is not even used for any purpose other than to simply prevent others from using it (it is to prevent "griefing" - which probably means settling there). Especially consideing it is only a 10 to 15 minute walk away from the starter town.

Now I do understand that theres a need to protect offdeed fenced off areas, becuase free players cannot found a deed and they would be unable to own a piece of land without this protection. However some premium players just take it to the limits and abuse a system that was invented to help free players get a piece of protected land. Someone with 70 + carpentry can poop out 80 ql wooden fences easily, which will take months to decay. Add some 80 ql wooden gatehouses that take maybe 15 minutes to build, and you have a massive protected area in less than 3 hours. And it'll last for months without repairing.

It saddens, even sickens me to see how some premium players always will abuse a system there is to help free players out, just to save themselves from paying for something. In the end, it's the free players who end up being screwed by this. I've seen lots of discussions on restrictions that should be put on free players becuase the premiums used free alts to use these systems. Caring for numerous horses with free alts is one of them. Now this discussion is another - where a system desgined to protect free players is abused by premiums.

This ruling definitaly needs to be looked into. There was a thread made by Oracle asking about a limit on offdeed enclosures, but seemingly - not much was done with this anymore. I hope there will be a ruling soon to prevent people from simply walling off massive areas, undeeded - to prevent others from using that land. I also hope that free players dont end up being completely screwed over and helpless becuase of this.

[Myst 1]

LOL  running around Free lands I noticed a LOT of this going on.

Probably the most shocking was out by Tenakils (they allready own a HUGE plot of land) low and behold i run into a walled area so big i couldnt even walk all of it.  Peeked in the window of one of the gate houses and examined the bed .. created by (.ec.et)  <pretty sure he is with tenakill lol

really these players are costing the game money by being overly "protective" of unowned land that is not being paid for and takes away from the future paying players of the game.

No offense to tenakil people btw it just stuck out in my mind from a recent travel .. but seriously guys its kinda rediculous.

PvP side i understand as no dynamic of the game prevents bashing of that kinda nonsense.  PvM .. new world really needs to be rethought

Myst

[san_tropez 394]

Smash a hole and see if anybody complains.

[Hordern 2,177]

There is so much free space around...

[Myst 1]

there may be alot of space around Hordern, However, I see 790 people upon log in.  If all 790 people decide to fence off outside of deed a 200+ tile area to call a 2nd non paid for deed.. where does that end?  I personally dont and im sure others dont but seeing as its ok to do , maybe i should and the others as well.

End point.. its not what it is atm but what it will become if left unchecked.

Myst

[Bachus 462]

A 100x100 un-deeded enclosure would require at least 400 tiles of fences and with the decay rate as it is each would have to be repaired once every 2 weeks.  The amount of time needed to repair and maintain such an area is a large deterrent.  If such places do exist the person will quickly get bored with doing nothing but repairing all the time and they will decay.

Fixed it.

A lot of what you are seeing are probably deeds of people who went to other servers or stopped playing.  I hold the keys to 3 such places, and have offered them to people once i thought they were serious about playing and not gonna just make a hobo shack play for a week and never log in again.  I have offered the keys to 3 such players and 2 declined the 3rd returned the keys, saying they wanted to find fresh ground. ???

The people who whine about not being able to find a place if you talk to them either think the world ends at waters edge or are looking for a 'perfect' spot 15 minutes from the howl with no neighbors.

[Becket 843]

Say what you want about Tenakill we pay for every tile its on.

[joedobo 1,187]

High ql fences last a very long time. On Indy I have about a 50x50 fenced-off and the fences are on my perimeter tiles. These fences are about 70ql, where build around 7 months ago and now have 10 to 20 dmg. In a week I could repair around 6 months worth of decay.

It's in deed owners best interest to fence off their perimeter. I have seen others make little shacks just outside perimeter and then stretch fences back into foreign deed perimeter. Now this free loader has more control over perimeter another deed payed for. I don't care about that BS ruling told about "pay for expansion right".

Seem to me the answer is limitations and are some ideas following that.

Change perimeter so no one; not even associated deed residents; can make fences, buildings and maybe even paved tiles. This would allow for expansion and stop all disputes over the land.

I'd also like to see construction plots, which are basically stripped featureless deeds for F2P, and force everyone to either build on a deed or a construction plot.

[Argolas 0]

Perimeter is meant for expanding. Once u expand, u can take down his fences. He knows that, thus it should deter him from building there.

Making perimeter unbuildable upon would lead to chaos, roads ending in front of perimeter and continuing inside deed.

In my opinion.

[Hordern 2,177]

I've removed the personal spat that was going on (take that to PM). Yes, I've left in what seems to be the instigation of that as there is more to that post, but it is then responded to a few posts later, and that's where it should end in this topic.

We also won't tolerate accusations of bias. If you believe a particular area needs looking in to, use /dev or pm Oracle through the forums.

On topic:

there may be alot of space around Hordern, However, I see 790 people upon log in.  If all 790 people decide to fence off outside of deed a 200+ tile area to call a 2nd non paid for deed.. where does that end?

Quite apart form the fact that only a small percentage of those people ever would, and often several people will share these areas, even if every one of those players fenced off 1000 tiles, that would be 800k tiles. Considering Independence is 16.8million tiles in size, that's only 4% of the server. If we assume that half of that is water, and half of the remainder is kind of tricky to build on, that's still only 16% of the server. Then there's Wild, Deliverance, Exodus and 4 Epic servers.

[Myst 1]

Thats a major flaw with alot of the game is short minded thinking, your throwing out %'s as if there were no deeds existing.

I have no idea what % of any of the lands are deeded atm but its when you tack on that 4% to whats left is when you start to see where there can in time become a problem.  looking at things at now versus 1 year from now is 2 differant things. 

Theres allready been a call for more servers so along came ex and indi .. probably un needed if there was allready an action plan for a clean up of "deedable land" that is being absorbed by house/fence non deeded

IF you feel that to be insulting or inappropriate I can surely leave it as is since its not my income being chipped away. 

Myst

[Hordern 2,177]

I quintupled the area you were quoting as each person taking. There is a LOT of free space around, I really see this as a non-issue at this time as far as land area is concerned.

I can't remember where to find out what % of land is taken up by deeds, but I'm willing to bet that it's not likely to be much more (if anywhere near) the suggestion above - each player owning 1000+ tiles. Yes, I'm aware we have rather more than 800 players (currently around 3k premium afaik), but that's not 3k individual people. Many will be alts, sharing villages etc, and even many individuals won't be setting up alone.

If we multiply by 3 (assuming all premium players have a large deed and fence of large tracts of land) you've then used up 48% of the 'kind of not tricky to build on' Inde server with deeds, and 48% with walls. 96%. Seems a lot. Until you half that because there is still plenty of 'kind of tricky to build on' server left. then bear in mind Wild, Deli, Exodus and Epic and suddenly you're back down to under 20% Then take into account that few players actually do this, many are alts, etc. etc., and you're probably back down to somewhere in the region of about 5% if not less (of land, not including water if you look at my calculations above).

Then there are all the free players. Indeed, they cannot fence off such large tracts so easily as ql will limit what they can look after, but if the main cause for concern is Wurms income being chipped away, I would consider it an incentive for premium. Free players get a LOT of perks from this game considering.

Thats a major flaw with alot of the game is short minded thinking

There was another thread somewhere - I think in suggestions - coming up with ideas on how to avoid these situations. I also mentioned that we are looking into some hard coded options in that thread. There's no point trying to bring in more and more rules on it all because the work load on the staff would be astronomical.

[Psalamon 201]

On 11/13/2011 at 3:36 AM, Hordern said:

I can't remember where to find out what % of land is taken up by deeds, but I'm willing to bet that it's not likely to be much more (if anywhere near) the suggestion above - each player owning 1000+ tiles. Yes, I'm aware we have rather more than 800 players (currently around 3k premium afaik), but that's not 3k individual people. Many will be alts, sharing villages etc, and even many individuals won't be setting up alone.

 

not o be an ass but i think you forgot about all the " dead deeds " that litter the landscape that are still paid for or are ever so slowly decaying due to high ql builds ie: digital  horse death ranches... these take up a lartge oppart of landscape, npo fault of anybodies but the land issue i think is better dealt with now than later it seems only xanadu has excess land and that is still greedily fought over at times..as i should nknow having my deed over lapping my perimeter by  5 tiles oin one area and having our community mine and cattle area over deeded with no hellp form the staff and then the people moved on.. close by mind you but still after starting project after project clearcutting a large area then leaving it to rot with outrr access cut off..so hey maybe something should be done, like just piss on us new players so we finally leave you l vets to twiddle thumbs with each other with no targets for bs stunts only to spout deed it or lose it or some other such nonsense.. so i laugh when i hear where are all the new players.. good luck finding too many..itys the vets that are killing this game with elitism..entitlement.. and whatever else they feel like and this is just another example of it..  what are pros doing deeding right next to the howl anyholw.. don't you have the skills to move into the wild.. or i guess us targets don'[t move that far away i mean new players..

[Arium 321]

nice necrobumping there.

 

this is a very old thread, and back then it used to be a lot more of a problem. quite a while back, probably about 1.5-2years now the rules for enfencements where changed.

before any enclosure connected to a finished building was off-limit for breaking into or destroying any of the fences, no matter how huge the area which resulted in really huge off-deed farms.

sure some still exist today thanks to high ql walls which are a pain for people who dont know how to use catapults. but they are way less common.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Arium

[enoofu 206]

Yeah this should be locked and a new topic on ways to reduce dead deeds should be posted

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by enoofu

[Sila 339]

Just bash fance you dont like or catapult....  who cares.... deed it or loose it

[Lockdown 235]

This thread is 5 years old. I'm pretty sure those fences rotted by now. 

 

Not to be an ass or anything. 

 

 

[Sila 339]

Oh lol  what you dig psalomon lol

[Hordern 2,177]

I reckon Celebration, Pristine, Release and (obviously only to a small extent...!) Xanadu has brought any space concerns crashing down since then

 

 

I'll lock this thread as the main cause of it was the enclosure rule which is long dead.