New bashing animals mechanics

[Ecrir 887]

I don't understand why people think have a deed form would protect them or deter an angry Brown bear or 9 Foot troll? It's a slip of paper and animals don't read so they shouldn't care about it. This change puts alot more "Game" into Wurm. the Freedom servers are PvE, Meaning you still must contend with the dangers of the world around you. The challenge of doing that is what separates a "Game" from a Medieval settlement planing tool and landscaping application.

[Othob Rithol 700]

Well trolls aren't praised for their tactical decisions either.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

one should consider what brings more money - peaceful terraforming or fleeing from animals/monsters

I wonder how many of the new players on deli/exodus quit now or in the near future and how many deeds that where founded on deli/exodus will disband in the near future.

Money can come and go quickly.

[Arindor 27]

You guys seriously think this is just fine?

Animals not from your deed bashing your fences down and letting folk come on deed and steal your stuff?  Most animal breeders need to leave "Pick up items on deed" on all the time so their villagers can tame.  So you logoff for a day and come back to find your deed raided because some champ troll bashed a path thru your stuff...

Doesn't sound fine to me!  And the problem is *NOT* going away with time as implied.

Animals should never be able to bash *into* a deed.  If the animal is on deed and wants out of a pen, fine.  But once an animal is off deed, it should never bash a fence to enter a deed.  That would prevent what is now an exploit.

[Becket 843]

It's by no means a game ender I can always hire a few guards, I just do not want to log on one day and see my stock

of breeding horses gone because some Champ troll took a short cut through my village. I put alot of time and effort into those horses.

[Camtire 0]

  I love how people quote that people are hoarders as to why the animal cap is low.  There were far more mobs sitting on the sides of mountains until they went venerable than ten times as many players could pen in.  Drive by Avocano sometime and you'll see hundreds of mobs up on the side of the mountain.  Still, probably, because they can't swim and they're trapped between a steep mountain and water.

  As to being able to hire more guards, first of all we shouldn't have to shovel more money Rolf's way because he screwed up, second we keep aggros as pets, and guards will go through locked gates to kill our own aggros before they help protect us from the wild ones.

[Afira 5]

I had a greenish dog tamed to me. A troll wandered onto my deed smashed the fence to the dog pen and killed the tame dog.

this is retarded.  Its not bad enough that I had to kill most of my agros but now they are coming on and killing the pets I paid cash for!

[Ardis 0]

It's by no means a game ender I can always hire a few guards, I just do not want to log on one day and see my stock

of breeding horses gone because some Champ troll took a short cut through my village. I put alot of time and effort into those horses.

[Camtire 0]

  With all we've lost in this update, I am thinking that if the server isn't rolled back prior to the bashing change, I am not staying.  It's sad, I really loved the game.  It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation now.  Rolling back would anger people losing three days of work.  Not rolling back angers people who lost just as much if not more, and plenty of money.  I hope Rolf speaks up soon, I'd like to hear what he has to say about his plans.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

  With all we've lost in this update, I am thinking that if the server isn't rolled back prior to the bashing change, I am not staying.  It's sad, I really loved the game.  It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation now.  Rolling back would anger people losing three days of work.  Not rolling back angers people who lost just as much if not more, and plenty of money.  I hope Rolf speaks up soon, I'd like to hear what he has to say about his plans.

[Camtire 0]

  I am wonderfully happy it's not a 'game breaker' for your play style Vroomfondel.  Since everybody plays exactly the same as you, you are 100% right.  I don't know what my problem was, since we all have the same play style it's silly of me to enjoy a different part of the game than you.  And Rolf doesn't want to hear anything to do with coding.  He's an overprotective code hermit who scares off anybody who does actual work on the game.

  Everybody has different parts of the game they enjoy, the world does not revolve around you and your views.  I'm happy you will continue to play as it doesn't effect how you do things.  Myself, and some of my friends on the other hand, have had everything we enjoy about the game ruined, and it is indeed a 'game breaker'.  Do not get me wrong, you are welcome to your opinion, but your sarcasm is not helpful right now.

[Arindor 27]

As to the issue of bashing fences, I've said before we have been playing safe on Freedom for too long.  It is a PVE server and it's about time we really had to defend ourselves from the environment.  Yes, we will have to hire more guards, or make them attack aggros.  Yes, if we want to pen an aggro, it's our risk and we will likely need to have a pen in the perimeter to keep them so the deed guards do not attack them.  It's not a game breaker, just changes the rules a bit.  Adjust and move on.

[Othob Rithol 700]

That would only stop it from bashing fences located at the exact deed edge. If it were to wander on to a deed and encounter a fence inside the deed that rule would not govern it.

[Afira 5]

an alternate way to deal with bashing? how about this:

1)agro comes to a fence. bashes fence. fence takes some damage (A small amount maybe even a percentage of damage)

2) agro then looks for an alternate route to move in. If found it moves

3) If the agro comes to another fence then bash, fence takes damage

4) goto 2 and continue

if the animal is in a pen is till bash the same fence  more often then not and the fence will break

there is no need for the 1 hit and it destroys a fence bashing

[Arindor 27]

That would only stop it from bashing fences located at the exact deed edge. If it were to wander on to a deed and encounter a fence inside the deed that rule would not govern it.

Aye, but in the case you point out, at least there is then the option of protecting yourself with a deed guard.  Folk who want aggros and/or don't have a deed guard could fence appropriately.

Of course the algorithm could be made more sophisticated as well.

[Becket 843]

I am ok with the new pathing.. Im glad the mobs are coming off the mountains.. I like a bit more danger when off deed (well except that I cant leave deed atm because of the huge number of trolls heading down).. Ive been playing almost 4 months and have 23 FS and a good weapon so I can take on adolescent scorp or adol huge spider.  If I get jumped while out and about, I can get away from most things.

However, the day I come home from work and log in to find my horses gone because one of those trolls stopped by and bashed INTO my deed.. that will be my last day in Wurm.

No no Ardis your not getting out of the game that easy, you can always come live at Tenakill.

[Devean 51]

Think of the F2P players. The Game Rules protect them against wall bashing off deed. Why would aggros violate that rule? If enclosures are protected (and they need to be so that F2P players aren't griefed to hell), the aggros shouldn't bash into any enclosure. Deed or not.

[Ayes 3,715]

I want to say that this new bashing and excessive aggro spawn and pathing AI is not in any way "exciting" nor is it "dangerous". It can all be avoided in various ways and I will use them all until Rolf finally gets frustrated that they are avoidable and codes them to be unavoidable. What they really are, are a nusiance and an annoyance.

This is merely Rolf's PVP game mentality resurfacing in another form being reinforced by some old style players who use the derogatory term of the game being now too "kiddie proofed". Really an ignorant reference to make when one has no way of knowing another's experience in life as it proceeds to an older age, so it holds no validity as it is being used in this context anyway.

Perhaps Rolf will some day be capable of doing the proper aggro AI coding to enable the divergent playstyles to enjoy their appealing aspects of the game. Sadly he is not in the position (capable) to do so now and has let this Frankenstein creation run amok.

We all pay the price for this but the deed holders much more so with our increased repairs, extra guard cost and the annoyance of not being able to continue our projects in peace. We are the ones who create and enhance this world out of the wilderness and it saddens me to think that Rolf does not see our benifit to his creation in the work we do but rather seeks out ways to make it even harder for us to complete and maintain our projects.

=Ayes=

[bdew 2,462]

This is merely Rolf's PVP game mentality resurfacing in another form being reinforced by some old style players who use the derogatory term of the game being now too "kiddie proofed". Really an ignorant reference to make when one has no way of knowing another's experience in life as it proceeds to an older age, so it holds no validity as it is being used in this context anyway.

[Kianga 219]

If Rolf can't code divergent AI and aggro (I don't know if you are correct on this Ayes, but it is feasable I guess) - then he can at least place the aggroes wisely. Like putting the worst ones far out into the mountains, where hardly anyone lives (so only the adventurers seeking them get to regularly see them).

This aside - what I would very much like to see though is just some more respect between (a lot of) the players of this game - respect for the choices and preferences and playstyles of others-then-just-themselves, in this case.

Wanting to always fight, fight now and then, not fight... it has nothing to do with 'kiddy-stuff' at all. If anything, it has to do with the adrenalin-level different kinds of people 'need' to get enjoyment out of a game. And by design as well as by 'all other circumstances weighing in' that level differs per person. How about we just accept that, and try to make the game appealing to a lot of different playstyles instead of just to one, two or three? I'm sure Rolf and his wallet will in the end be happy for such...

[Devean 51]

Wanting to always fight, fight now and then, not fight... it has nothing to do with 'kiddy-stuff' at all. If anything, it has to do with the adrenalin-level different kinds of people 'need' to get enjoyment out of a game. And by design as well as by 'all other circumstances weighing in' that level differs per person. How about we just accept that, and try to make the game appealing to a lot of different playstyles instead of just to one, two or three? I'm sure Rolf and his wallet will in the end be happy for such...

[Ayes 3,715]

bdew,

No I am not overreacting, I am dealing with and experiencing this nightmare of overdone aggro animal AI and commenting on those referenced who imply that it is a good thing to "unkiddie proof" the game.

Weather or not it is a mistake in Rolf's coding or not remains to be seen as he has made no comment upon it. I hope he will revert the animal spawn rate, aggro range and bashing to the norms of Independence, there and on Deliverance; however, the indications have been that he wants these heightened aggro powers as has been already exhibited by making the aggro's on Independence much harder to kill a month or two ago. This change was met with the approval of the high level FS players to the detriment of the majority of low to poor FS players. To me, this newest "enhancement" is just more of the same which is why I do not view it as a mistake on his part; but nonetheless a mistake to do so.

All this indicates the continuing resurfacing of his make it unpleasant and dangerous to play this game PVP substitute mentality. When one creates a MMO it will be most successful to cater to the majority of the gamebase, which in this instance is certainly not those who consider this game to be too "kiddie proofed". After you have satisfied those types, then fine, create an environment (Exodus) for those who need to feel that they are not being "kiddie proofed" and let them partake in it. This way neither group will be enforcing their game play styles on the other.

Choices are always best, with no one telling anyone to "get off my server" as they are certainly welcome to stay there and play under the designs of that particular server. Then again, if Rolf just wants to have fun doing his own thing without consideration for the majority of his paying customers, he has every right to do so.

=Ayes=

[Othob Rithol 700]

Considering I am the one that wrote "kiddie proof" I can only assume all this dung is being said about me. You all need to actually go back and read my posts a little before you sling mud. As I see it I'm one of only a handful of players proposing changes to the update to protect your deeds instead of just whining about it and insisting it's a conspiracy.

The term "kiddie proof" is completely apt. It's the process of cushioning everything, rounding all corners, removing all threats -  and it is exactly what has been done to Wurm over the last few years. There is no buried assumption that you are a kiddie or any other flame - so stop trying to dig for one. It's a simple statement of opinion that Wurm's PvE offering had grown too easy.

As to the insistence that wanting a more difficult PvE environment is somehow promoting a PvP environment; it is utterly ignorant. Those acronyms means certain words...perhaps you should educate yourself. As to "get off my server" mentality - a lot of us were here long before you. Our opinions are just as valid as yours about the game environment. Telling me I need to uproot and relocate to a new server is the height of arrogance.

I emailed Rolf details, including a test, of potentially exploitative use of this change. I can not say I was pleased with the outcome. And I consistently have said over and over, both before and after this change, Aggros should not willingly enter deeds and if they find themselves on one they should move off of it immediately.

So save your ad hominem attacks and get a mutually acceptable solution on the table for discussion. Or not. But discussing the actual issue and fixes for it might make the game better. Whining without offering solutions certainly won't.

[Ardis 0]

I am ok with the new pathing.. Im glad the mobs are coming off the mountains.. I like a bit more danger when off deed (well except that I cant leave deed atm because of the huge number of trolls heading down).. Ive been playing almost 4 months and have 23 FS and a good weapon so I can take on adolescent scorp or adol huge spider.  If I get jumped while out and about, I can get away from most things.

However, the day I come home from work and log in to find my horses gone because one of those trolls stopped by and bashed INTO my deed.. that will be my last day in Wurm.

No no Ardis your not getting out of the game that easy, you can always come live at Tenakill.

/scrounges around in coffin to find her official "Old Grumpy Hermits" badge and membership papers 

[MasterGeldrin 0]

Considering I am the one that wrote "kiddie proof" I can only assume all this dung is being said about me. You all need to actually go back and read my posts a little before you sling mud. As I see it I'm one of only a handful of players proposing changes to the update to protect your deeds instead of just whining about it and insisting it's a conspiracy.

The term "kiddie proof" is completely apt. It's the process of cushioning everything, rounding all corners, removing all threats -  and it is exactly what has been done to Wurm over the last few years. There is no buried assumption that you are a kiddie or any other flame - so stop trying to dig for one. It's a simple statement of opinion that Wurm's PvE offering had grown too easy.

As to the insistence that wanting a more difficult PvE environment is somehow promoting a PvP environment; it is utterly ignorant. Those acronyms means certain words...perhaps you should educate yourself. As to "get off my server" mentality - a lot of us were here long before you. Our opinions are just as valid as yours about the game environment. Telling me I need to uproot and relocate to a new server is the height of arrogance.

I emailed Rolf details, including a test, of potentially exploitative use of this change. I can not say I was pleased with the outcome. And I consistently have said over and over, both before and after this change, Aggros should not willingly enter deeds and if they find themselves on one they should move off of it immediately.

So save your ad hominem attacks and get a mutually acceptable solution on the table for discussion. Or not. But discussing the actual issue and fixes for it might make the game better. Whining without offering solutions certainly won't.

Hear Hear!

As for the Aggro's entering deeds perhaps aggros should have an additional "rating" which represents their Confidence. So not only are there aggressive creatures but different scales of.

For example:

Cave Bug : Aggressive - 1

Wild Cat: Aggressive - 3

Wolf: Aggressive -4

Scorpion: Aggressive -7

Troll: Agressive -10

Champion Troll: Aggressive -11

And only creatures above a certain aggression will actively break down walls without provocation, other creatures will attempt to bash down walls when they "spot" a player pass by, and a lesser group will be aggressive but only seek pathing solutions and not bash.

For example:

Aggression 1-4 : Pathing Aggressive, will not bash

Aggression 5-8 : On Sight Aggressive, Will attempt to bash if players go within a certain amount of tiles of them.

Aggression 8-10 : Naturally Aggressive, Will bash any non deeded fences in their movement path. These creatures hate being penned but are wary of settlements, those pink legged things hurt them.

Aggression 10 + : Reserved for champions and uniques, will bash any walls regardless of deed status. These creatures really hate being penned in and show no fear of civilization!

And depending on their situation their aggression level can be increased by various affectations around them:

Increases Aggression:

-Unable to path a route back to their lair

-In a tile which has three sides walled

-In the presence of same species extras

-is fierce

-is starving

-on a deed and is champion

Decreases Aggression:

-Can pathe a path to lair.

-In open land

-No same species within X radius

-On a deed and is not champion.

-is sickly

-is tamed

-is well fed

By doing this people can know they will be in relative safety and only have to spring to action when large dangerous creatures near. Zoo's will be partially plausible, but will require careful maintenance as the creatures contained thrash in anger at being penned.

in the cases of uniques / champions, their aggression cannot be decreased but can be increased (that increase will revert once corrected, forexample being led off deed).