New bashing animals mechanics

[Devean 51]

They won't bash fences on deeds.

[Lycanthropic 523]

The Fierce scorpion I had a few weeks ago ended up trying to bust its way out. It was around "starving", as well, so it may possibly be related to them being fed?

[Othob Rithol 700]

Creature AI avoids deed tiles when they are not already on a deed tile. That should generally keep on deed walls safe from creatures that originate off the deed.

As to "only bashing out", the AI most certainly does not comprehend its world at that level. It simply wants to move in that direction, is blocked by a fence...so it destroys the fence.

[spellcast 983]

-posted as a player, not as a member of staff-

without knowing for sure what rolfs actual mechanics are:

If i were doing it, I would set it up as follows:

1pick a random spot XX tiles away, and try to pathfind to it.

2If all options are blocked, pick a spot the same distance away, 90 degrees clockwise

3if no path: pick a new spot, same distance, 90 more degrees clockwise

4if still no path, pick the last spot, same distance, 90 degrees farther clockwise (have now checked 360 degrees around)

5if still no path: move directly towards target spot, if you run into a fence - bash ; if you run into a house, move target spot 90 degrees. repeat step 5

Thus they are unlikely to bash INTO a pen.

[Lycanthropic 523]

As to "only bashing out", the AI most certainly does not comprehend its world at that level. It simply wants to move in that direction, is blocked by a fence...so it destroys the fence.

[Devean 51]

We need some official confirmation from Rolf. These changes come as a total surprise, without proper explanation.

[Mystecore 0]

4 champ trolls, champ scorp, 5 trolls, possibly champ unicorns and crocs but I can't see in the fog; all loose on my deed now.

Bet all the folk who like to play zoo or collector are real happy (and there's a lot). Likely leave to play something where they can cage up animals. Bravo.

The movement increase would have been fine on it's own.

[ulfpain 0]

We need some official confirmation from Rolf. These changes come as a total surprise, without proper explanation.

[Ecrir 887]

Nice to see creatures bashing walls again. I still remember back on JKH, sitting in my own undeeded fort when suddenly a troll bashed his way through my tall walls and attacked me, that sure were exciting times (less then 20fs too at the time)

I had to actually build towers to keep them at bay, and keep an eye out for them when doing building those. PvE is finally looking a bit more exciting again with the increase in creature movement too

[Maximilus 0]

They won't bash fences on deeds. Anyway, they shouldn't bash their way into fenced areas, only out from them.

Oh they do, a champ scorp bashed his way in my deed this morning, breaking the horse pens on the process and letting my breeding stock to run loose.

[Ecrir 887]

They won't bash fences on deeds. Anyway, they shouldn't bash their way into fenced areas, only out from them.

Oh they do, a champ scorp bashed his way in my deed this morning, breaking the horse pens on the process and letting my breeding stock to run loose.

was the scorp already on deed when it started to bash stuff? Or did it come from an off deed area?

[Othob Rithol 700]

I spent quite a bit of effort to get an aged raging troll to bash my walls to no avail. My test was not conclusive by any means, but the troll didn't seem to be at all interested in bashing even to follow me through the gate. It stood there until it lost aggro and walked away.

[Maximilus 0]

was the scorp already on deed when it started to bash stuff? Or did it come from an off deed area?

Nope,I get champ spawns on the perimeter of my deed all the time, he spawn on perimeter, walked on deed (guard is set to not attack agroos - which is no longer the case, as I don't want to be out for a few days and have animals destroy the walls), bashed the wall to the farm area and continue to move west and bashed the wall to the horse pen, all on deed. Horses got out of the deed thru the first bashed wall, but I manage to get them all (damn new movement change also).

I'm actually not complaining at all, I like the change and it's about time, people will have to take care of penned animals even more now (on deed), which is a good thing. So I had to wrangle my horses and re-build 2 walls, after killing a champ, big deal, teach me to be more attentive at my surroundings now, and kill any champ asap.

[Maximilus 0]

I spent quite a bit of effort to get an aged raging troll to bash my walls to no avail. My test was not conclusive by any means, but the troll didn't seem to be at all interested in bashing even to follow me through the gate. It stood there until it lost aggro and walked away.

I think they do bashed if they are "penned" or their movement is restricted somehow, as my case, the champ was pin with cliff on one side and my fence on the other, the second fence, I think he couldn't find his way out the same way he came in and bashed that to find a path to get out, only explanation I can think off honestly.

[Cerber 103]

i saw a troll hit a fence that wasn't even on its path earlier

was attacking it in front of my horses pen, and it started bashing the fence on its left...

also cliffs are no problem for animals, i saw plenty climb it while running

[Wossoo 1,915]

Maybe an easy fix could be that creatures only bash after being next to a fence for a certain period of time? That way when creatures naturally move near to fences they wont just bash them, they will move away before they have been there long enough to start bashing it.

[ericbomb 6]

but couldnt that mean that a large enough pen could keep in something because it would think it was just hitting a wall in the middle of knowwhere?

I like this, more PVE, less player murder enviroment.

[Klaa 4,872]

Aye if they dont bash writs too the update is practically useless. Course when animals bashed fences in the past, people soon found the animals would not bash buildings... thus people used them as pens.

[joedobo 1,187]

wow...unbelievable. I wonder why I even bother to post this. It is not like their wasn't pages of post and historical examples supporting that: if you threaten pve deeds, anger and unrest will follow.

If I where to fix it:

1. Mobs never bash deeded walls, nor do they wander onto deed village tiles. All unique creatures or "strong creatures" would be teleported off deed as a one time fix. Never enter applies to both random wandering and actively chasing a targeted player. Give players a warning so we can tame/dominate our mobs.

2. Apply the tower guard "help!" logic to deed guards and let players call help on mobs in perimeter.

[Ayes 3,715]

This whole aggro system is contunually escelating to the point where it makes us "peaceful" players (those who are not in it for aggro combat) frustrated that we can't go about our affairs unassalted by these nusiances wandering about disrupting our projects.

Friday I was working on my deed near the new Green Dog spawn area with a newly premiumed person who also was having fun building on their little free area that is adjacent to my deed. Then these goofy green trolls started spawning on the mountainside, running up and down it in a crazed fashion. One comes down to the deed and enters, my spirit templar attacks it, I assist it, it kills the templar, I jump into the water to avoid it's overpowered bezerk rage and by the time another spirit templar spawns, this ugly green thing has regained 2/3 of the health that we took from it. Rinse/repeat, rinse/repeat, on and on.

My newly premiumed friend took a few wacks at the troll but recieved bad to sever wounds that gradully sucked the life out of him. Add another green troll coming down onto the deed and there was nothing to be done but for me to craftily avoid their wrath. Of course during this time frame all the other mobs that infenst (!!) the area were also respawning a few minutes after they were killed.

Now hopefully this was all just some coding for Exodus that bled over to Deliverance, as I had never seen so many green trolls (I didn't mention the 5-6 others that were running around on the mountain side) in our poor fighting skill newbie area. The thing that is good about Exodus is that those uber fighting skill people can actively make a CHOICE to go there and confront these aggros to their hearts content. Please do not try to force the remaining vast majority of us who have no interest in this pitiful aggro combat to have to engage in it.

WoW has a sensible approach to the various forms of combat in that they do not put level 85 mobs into level 1 zones and beyond that, they do not make the strength of the aggro's that are in the lower level zones beyond what those level players are capable of handling and even defeating. Not to mention the pitiful combat animations, gear and options that Wurm offers in comparison (but I just did anyway).

The combat system is not Wurm's strength, nor will it ever be due to the vastly superior and unique environmental transforming options available to choose from. The crafting system plays a poor second fiddle to this and the aggro combat system is in the dark ages in comparison. I really wish Rolf would realize this and focus his attentions to making the game more enjoyable to those (the vast majority) who enjoy the unique environmental aspects available.

When a person travels the lands they are not much impressed with the insane aggro's running around trying (and many times successful) to kill them. Their gaze wanders around them at the majestic environments and the various player created villages that they pass through on their journeys. This is creative effort that takes time and experience to design and build, not some mindless aggro bashing players heads in and leaving their corpsed strewed along the way.

I rest my case (for now). Anyway, my new premium friend any myself finished a guard tower shortly after this madness died down; so to all of you who enjoy other players being killed in the game because they are not "uber" fighters such as yourself, tough luck. Head over to Exodus to have your enjoyment of killing aggro's and emit your mighty roars of triumph over there; it matters not to me, just do not try to inflict your desires to see destruction to those of us who have no desire to partake of it. The pen is mighty'er that the sword, as the saying goes and it has deeper implications than that.

P.S. Please do not allow outside aggro's to be able to bash fences/walls from outside deeds, as this would be another poorly thought out mechinism endorsed by those who want to see the "peaceful" non-elete fighters harassed. Those types should seek out their own opportunities for aggro conflict just as we should be able to avoid them if not interested in those mundane activities.

=Ayes=

[Othob Rithol 700]

I for one welcome the added difficulty, but can sympathize with the players that have joined since Wurm's PvE got kiddie-proofed.

The fix is simple and without pointing fingers at people and telling them they need to get off "your" server. Aggros should not enter deeds willingly, and they should strive to leave them if they are on them. The only exceptions should be charmed/tamed/dominated aggros and perhaps any aggros that a player is "caring for". In all other respects the update should remain.

For Deliverence this might be a far more serious problem than on Independence, however. The mob density there is 30% to 40% higher than Inde.

As a temporary measure I encourage anyone that is fearful to make sure their deed guards attack aggros and to consider recruiting a few more.

[Alyeska 2,621]

I dont like it at all.

Some people enjoy to keep these animals, breed them, display them, care for them, show them off - why would someone who fair and square dominated a champion troll but needs to tame his horse to log out not be able to keep said troll in a pen? I thought this whole deal was about uniques, not all penned up animals.

Breeding and collecting animals, agressive or not, is a big part of wurm. I know a lot of people even make this into their main goal; I remember dannyirons zoo back on jkhome. Why would one persons desire in a game be, mechanic wise, prefered over someone elses? I don't entirely think reality should play any role with cases like this. Yeah, sure that giant lava spider doesnt like to be penned up and server as a gatehouse, but if you're going to argue reality (not that burning spiders are even close to being real)  they would climb over the fences, rather than bash their skull into them repeatedly.

Uniques is one thing, though in my personal opinion its also bad that one group of people gets prefered over the others mechanic wise, scr*wing up the work someone else has done and effort put into this. Devs should interrupt with stuff as such, community based games can look for a solution with the players.  They should, imo, only interrupt in case of bugs and for addition of new materials.

Good luck to all the deeds on all servers who had lava creatures penned up for lighthouses, troll and scorpions for display.I bear with you since my champion scorpions and fiends bashed the living hell out of my pens, helping their buddies who dont even care about escaping to roam free on my deed aswell. Time to go back to independance and clean up the mess a new game mechanic made.

[PWreset 66]

It would be great, if tamed creatures (not dominated) turn into domested creatures, if on deed, so they wont go aggro, but need to be tamed again to breed or do anything else with them. It would allow to breed some of those hostile creatures (like cave Bugs, Bears Wolves) but not the too strong ones (like Trolls or Lava Spiders, because they are wild and very dangerous creatures).

[Camtire 0]

  My friend and I collect animals at Mydonia.  We keep them well fed and fat, which requires a lot of effort on a daily basis.  We have put a lot of time, work, and money into this, as it is what we enjoyed about the game.

  I have a flu, and I went to sleep for about three or four hours.  When I returned, it was chaos.  Mobs from off deed bashed INTO our horse pen, the only player on the deed at the time being too low a level to do anything about it, and a priest so they couldn't even rebuild the walls.  The monsters then proceeded to run around our deed bashing fences, letting out more of our animals.  Once this was finally delt with, we noticed even our fat animals have damage on their cages.  Deeds of nearby friends are missing their champion animals which now roam the area. 

  Our deed has numerous fences damaged or gone and we unfortunately had to kill most of our aggros.  I do not like this change, and quite frankly, I no longer feel like putting money into the game or even playing anymore.  If I wanted to pay money just to have my hard work destroyed I would be on Wild.  With our animals gone, I feel like there's not much here for me anymore.

  Why are there test servers if they are not used before large changes like this?

[agentusp 126]

The change is good. Things that happened after the update couldn't be avoided even if tested on the test server first. I do like the idea about creatures once tamed(not dominated) don't bash walls.