griefing new road (at a road block) pun? just close please

[Alyeska 2,621]

Deed it or lose it. Wall of your perimeter. Duh. If you dont want people in your local move to wild.

Seriously, your response to this after days of inactivity was to tear up the road he worked hard on? You couldnt get yourself to just reason with him and talk about it?

[Maximilus 0]

You want to quote rules,   Well rules are good and all but how about you look at the code of conduct.

http://www.wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=40290.0

Looks like spage was here first.

So if he is gonna be rude.. I see why we can't be as rude to him and make his attempts as hard as possible.

I hate having to resort to childish tactics like this.. but seeing as it is our only recorse to protect the surrounding area I will do as I must.

Bold = griefing

Guide or not, rules are first anyway because of the nature of wurm itself. Aly put it nicely for you. And as to whoever got there first or not, irrelevant, if it wasn't deed to begging with, it belongs to no one, now placing a deed after the facts, with the sole purpose of blocking the road is griefing as per the actual game rules.

Code of conduct are NOT rules, only a guideline, because people were using them to their own benefit and Oracle change that and incorporated part of it to the rules themselves and left the rest as a guide only, nothing more than that.

First line of the paragraph that you purposely omitted to post:

The FCC is not a set of rules.

The FCC does not protect you or your assets, it is simply a guide of conduct that the players of freedom expect everyone to abide by.

[HeartTheEternal 2]

Game Rules > Code of Conduct

I'm not choosing either side, just pointing out the game rules take priority over manners.

[FogToo 1]

Deed it or lose it. Wall of your perimeter. Duh. If you dont want people in your local move to wild.

Seriously, your response to this after days of inactivity was to tear up the road he worked hard on? You couldnt get yourself to just reason with him and talk about it?

Noone teared up a road. A deed was placed on our beach house to prevent further damage to our property. Some fences have been teared down to make way for this new "highway" in order for it to land on the other side. The idea was to build a dam which would go right by our beach house technically making it a lake.

Spage did try to talk with him telling that it was not possible to build this way as it would pass through our deeds and/or tearing up the land we manage in between, and offered his help to build it another way around. He was not interested in listening and the only right way would be this way. To make it stop before he destroyed to much of our work we decided it was time to deed our property. It's fairly easy to see that the area is well managed and being taken care of, and not just a blob of land that we fight over.

(I know you will quite deed it or loose it) so don't bother.

[Maximilus 0]

and/or tearing up the land we manage in between,

[Serpentarius 186]

Spage and co, you guys should just plan/build a few houses in the area of your perimeters where he wants to terraform his road, see if he can destroy them as easily he destroyed your fences (hint: he can't).

[Kilitra 11]

this is the problem with having perimeters...I would love to have my deed abut my allies deed, but we are required by the game to have a perimeter for each of us...which leaves a 10 tile wide zone...that everyone and their dog has a right to clear cut and wander thru?  I would love to have my perimeter actually count as a no build, no terraform, no cut area. But all it does is keep people from building houses...they can cut down every tree and build a moat around you just for fun...as long as they leave a one tile wide gap, in your perimeter, which would be entirely legal by rule standards. Rude to the extreme but entirely legal.   Gee, Joy and wonders.

As for breaking rules and codes of conduct... I have not.  I have not called anyone names, I have not Flamed people for various comments, I have kept my part of the conversation focused on the idea of the road and what it means for our area.

If you can't build a house or farm on it...why terraform or clearcut it or even put a road on it.  There is no purpose to building fences or roads on someone's perimeter.  I am confused as to why to have a perimeter if it's open to all of this horror.  Why spend money on expanding one's perimeter?  It won't keep your perimeter from being destroyed.  Yet I am charged and expected to have at least a 5 tile wide perimeter.  Correct me if I am wrong....If I spend money on having a perimeter and perhaps a larger perimeter than usual 20 or so extra tiles  I do not "own" in some way the tiles I spent money on?  I do not have the right to protest a road coming thru that area? or protest a road that will affect my area?  I do not have the right to protest a player coming and clear cutting the trees surrounding my deed in my perimeter? or protesting any other action taken there?

What is the point of paying for this non-owned perimeter?

And if it is a non-owned area...do I really have the right to fence it in? or is the perimeter I payed for free for anyone to fence in? or free for anyone to waltz thru dragging aggro mobs behind them?

I have a thousand questions about my rights concerning this non-owned area that I spent money on....(I do not say unowned...unowned would imply that no one spent money to "buy" it.)

So to keep this perimeter clean and untouched, I have to build a fence and possibly an additional house...I can't just deed it...my perimeter touches other perimeters.  Thank you for the extra work I guess.

[Othob Rithol 700]

You own your deeded tiles. You prevent others from owning perimeter tiles to allow yourself to grow at a later date or to create some breathing room between you and your neighbors. Any theorized control or ownership over perimeter is patently false.

This is not a matter of game rules, exploitation, or a flaw in the way deeds work : this is a squabble between two groups. It's strictly a social dispute.

[Serpentarius 186]

Any theorized control or ownership over perimeter is patently false.

[Alyeska 2,621]

Any theorized control or ownership over perimeter is patently false.

Yet, practically the control provided by the perimeter is patently true since only the villagers can plan houses and build enclosures in their perimeter (while no one else can) and since destroying enclosures is griefing, the perimeter gives you the in-game ability to counter any form of terraforming around your deed proper.

Trying to build anything in someone else perimeter is downright stupid, game mechanisms and anti-griefing rules will give the perimeter owners all the abilities they need to destroy/prevent any terraforming.

[Kerwal 31]

yes but when you have one deed next to another your always going to have that 10 tile gap that is unprotected and cannot be expanded onto by deeds.   I for one would be perfectly fine with just a 1 tile out perimeter instead of this huge 5 tiles one.

But that is for another thread.

We have tried to reply as we best could and you all have turned it into a rule whack fest.  And as I said it was code of conduct never rules and I stated it as rude not against the rules Max.  And as your stating no-one owns the tiles so basicly Spage has as much right to say he cannot build there as he says that he does.   The road hadn't passed the house and spage deeded it to prevent it, all in the rules, so let chewius whine about it as you will notice he started it, and really lets face it nothing you people say or do will change what we will decide here in birdy bay.  He can go back to byzamtium and cry in his canal and learn to travel north.

Only a GM stepping in and saying anything will matter, we just wanted to defend ourselves from this crap and now I remember why I don't do forums.

[Othob Rithol 700]

Yes, the overall impact of the perimeter rules, coupled with the enclosure : rules, makes that effectively true. But that derives naturally from the rules as they are and does not justify expanding additional legal rights to that area as is being suggested. One can argue that the deed owner has every advantage and that leads to de facto control of that area but that is in no way grounds to assert ownership or privilege above and beyond what is already coded.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be royally irked if somebody decided to build a highway in my perimeter. I also would attempt to stop them. But I am not deluded into thinking I own that perimeter. In this situation I agree with Spage and the other locals : Chewius should have coordinated with the local settlements to find a mutually acceptable route. Instead he wasted a lot of time making a now blocked road. I'm a firm believer that even though the nearby deeds have not actual claim to non-deeded land, it is still polite to coordinate with them when what you are doing is closer to their deeds than yours.

[Serpentarius 186]

I really don't see how some people passing through your local is going to bother you unless you are performing dodgy stuff. It's an MMO with hundreds of players on one server, starting a hissyfit becuase "you don't want people passing through the area" is ridiculous. It's going to happen sooner or later, and you're better off having a nice road built than having someone deed right up on your frontlawn and wreck the area.

[Evilvision 301]

We should have the option to select 0 Free tiles for perimeter in the deed settings. This would allow people to butt deeds next to each other and eliminate perimeter tiles if they choose. The perimeter tiles are supposed to be a way of expanding in the future. A lot of times they just prevent being able to expand especially in the cases of perimeters butted next to each other. You have those 5 tiles "reserved for future use" but you can never deed them.

[Protunia 735]

Exactly you do not manage land you do not have enclosed or deeded period.

Basically players have a right to make roads on undeeded land for their travel.

Modifying, deeding over or destroying roads/highways is a whole different matter.

As far as free perimeter goes I have suggested in the past that you should be able to purchase those 5  tile and effectively lock in the deed size.

That Idea was pretty much ignored or shot down.

http://wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=36096.0

Also had a good Idea I thought to reduce perimeter based on deeded tiles.

http://wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=34721.0

[Serpentarius 186]

Basically players have a right to make roads on undeeded land for their travel.

[Protunia 735]

Basically players have a right to make roads on undeeded land for their travel.

The right to do so is debatable and varies with the years and what the gms decide is acceptable and what they decide is not. But do they have the ability to build the highway if the owner of the perimeter doesn't want them to and act within the rules to prevent it? Not really.

[Devean 51]

What is the point of paying for this non-owned perimeter?

You do not pay for the 5 free tiles.

And if it is a non-owned area...do I really have the right to fence it in?

Anyone is allowed to build fences around areas (s)he uses. If you touch your neighbor's perimeter with your perimeter, it's 20 wall sections. 10 on each size. Hardly something you need to spend entire days to maintain.

[Propheteer 7,139]

dear god i am agreeing with protunia, hell mustve frozen over.

IF YOU DONT DEED IT, YOU DONT OWN IT, SORRY.

continue with the road pls chewyboy  

[Serpentarius 186]

You have no rights to control perimeter at all just so we get that part straight.

[Devean 51]

If building houses is not control, i don't know what it is.

[Serpentarius 186]

If building houses is not control, i don't know what it is.

[Devean 51]

A few 90ql houses can't be destroyed, decay horribly slowly and can easily cover and block areas bigger than most basic size deed if built intelligently.

[Torluk 21]

I think there is room here for a little optimism.  From what has been said it seems like Chewius and Spage are both willing to discuss the matter, they just havn't found a solution that they are both willing to tolerate yet.

Tolerate is the key here I think, you probably won't find a solution that you both like or 100% agree upon so in the spirit of trying to respect everyone's right to modify the wilderness you need to find a solution you can tolerate.

The only way you can say as a group of players that nobody else has a right of access to or through your valley is to deed it all or go to the effort of making the whole area an enclosure.

And as for perimeter tiles, the 5 free tiles which you don't pay for are to guarantee that people can't box a deed in or box in an area of undeeded tiles that they can have exclusive rights to without paying for them or going to the effort of enclosing.

[Serpentarius 186]

A few 90ql houses can't be destroyed, decay horribly slowly and can easily cover and block areas bigger than most basic size deed if built intelligently.