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chewius

griefing new road (at a road block) pun? just close please

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i had just about finished making a road connecting the crystal canal area to areas west via a road along the shore.. steep area took alot of dirt to make a road decent enough to traverse. at the end neer a hermit's deed called birds hill it goes around  a house and some non connected fences. The owner of birds hill, Spage, who apparently was on vacation, immediatly has a problem with the road which doesnt touch his deed but starts digging up the area near a house that isnt on deed or perimeter. He says he doesnt want traffic through the area, yet this is the only reasonable land route from my village to the main road south of Freedom market.  I contacted gms to help me with this issue who basicly support me and offered to help with dirt to make the road just outside the area around birds hill , which is deep water. next thing spage does is have is alt put up a small deed purposefully to block the road even more. I tried reasoning with him since im almost finished with the road and just want a route to fm but he is completely stubborn and i dont see a solution to this. he has no boats or docks or anything of interest on the shoreline which is all i care about and there is no other route since its between the water and a huge steep mountain but he has an issue with "noobs" or traffic passing through areas not on his deed, can we be any more anti social?

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Thats a tough one... both of you have just as much right to do as you see fit outside his deed...

Would it be possible to completely bypass his area by putting a tunnel in that mountain at the back of his deed (at some distance, he probably has a mine near his house) ?

That way you would have your route to FM, and he would keep his peaceful place peaceful?

(And maybe he would be willing to help reaching such a solution by doing some mining on that tunnel too...)

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Sounds like he doesn't want anyone around his area even if he hasn't deeded it.

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i can understand some people wanting to be left alone and dont want tresspassers.. i even offered to wall off the side of the road near his place but he wants to hear nothing, making a tunnel i considered but would be hugely more difficult then running 30-40 tiles of road that are in question, its rather rediculous to argue, he just wants to make things difficult

What i was more shocked to learn is that this guy is a CA. Are you kidding me? does he really deserve that?

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Was it 2 tiles wide? If so it is clearly griefing:

Highways.

A/ It is illegal to block, terraform, alter or destroy any highways.( Application to conduct any of these activites may be sent to GM for approval)

B/ If you have or choose to place a deed over a highway, you are still required to follow part A, and leave the highway clear and passable.

Highways are defined as being at least 2 paved tiles wide road with or without barriers, or a single paved tile road with sand barriers

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I have noticed you guys being really busy with paving a great stretch of road, especially the curved road going around New Brohalla. Now, i do not mind having a road in my backyard, but i do not understand why it was built in complete silence.

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If it was a 2 tile road, then he is clearly griefing and has no right to block the road or otherwise hinder its maintenance and movement on it.

If you built the road outside his deed, then he has no title to the land, on which the road was built.

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Is every two tile wide road really a protected highway? Because then you could just pave someones orchard or farm, and call a GM when they try to remove it

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Hermit ? As far as I am concerned we are actually 6 living in Birds Hill - Port Eagle. The road you are trying to make will go straight into Port Eagle.

I realise where you put the road as of just now is by a few tiles shy of our perimeter. But we have no interest in having a quarter of the server crossing our deeds on a daily basis and thus did what we felt needed to protect ourselves from this. But having someone walk up and say we will now expropriate your land to make a road, is not my opinion of good neighbourhood manner.

I can only say maybe you should have contacted the locals before you made this "huge" effort to make a road.

To clarify this. The piece of land right now is on the shore south of Birds Hill and west of Port Eagle. There is no way to make this road connect anywhere unless you make it into Port Eagle. If chewius doesn't realise this, then apparently he haven't even taken the effort to look where the road can connect.

appendix:

After talking to Spage since you have talked to him, I can see that you will wall in our beach house which was intentionally off deed to ferment wine.

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We arrived to this area, at the serverday two. We never wanted a public road through our area.

After 3 days of holiday, yesterday, we log in and discovers that Cherwius have torn down our fences and dumped 300 dirt to connect a road.

It had never been intended that anyone can just make a two tile wide road, and if anything will come in the way, it should just be expropriation.

Before embarking on a major road project I think it is a good idea just to check whether it is feasible. Both physical and makeing agreement with the land owners.

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I Live in the area above Bird hill and the road is just not a resonable Idea. after bird hill the terrain is very steep and there is no true access road for more than residential traffic. Seeing as it has about 8 switchbacks and almost a constan 20 grade from about 50 tiles in from the beach area.   Also we told chewis that spage was on vacation and he should talk with him, but apparently he couldn't wait a few days.  We have had Multipule icedents with newbies trying to build in areas that are only 2 tiles wide between perimeters, digging up ON perimeters and then complaining about not being able to build and thus ruining the area.

             Anther point is that the road area is not useable but carts unless they hand push a cart through the 2 tile wide Canal on the south end of Crystal Lake prevents any Non-swimming animals and make carts that have to be pulled by animals unusable.  I would like to know if Chewis had actualy walked out or in any way, shape, or form investigated the path to the highway BEFORE he started building this road along a sheer cliff face into water?

We all moved down into these isolated areas because we have gotten tired of newbies and "in the rules" griefers basicly destroying areas with useless terraforming on perimeters.  We all do NOT want a public road passing through our local area,  you can add Hawks Flight, and Kerkil's Talon deeds to the list of deed that are adamintly against the addition of this road. I feel that it is a pointless endevor that will not save and travel time and will alread tax the local resources like game and forest that we have strived to maintain natural looking for the most part in the area.  This road will not save any for of travel time to FM as a road up the west side of crystal lake is a more direct and gentle path.  

   

edit to remove pointless end rant.

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Firstly, there is absolutely 0 chance of making a path along the west side of Crystal Lake, that land is cliff all the way to the water.

Secondly, as everyone who complains about the state of freedom mentions on a daily basis, the lands of Freedom are steep.  Big Deal.  The land being steep isn't an excuse to not try to make some sort of reasonable connecting route to a major part of the map.

You can't control the land.  You can't control other players.  People are going to try to do whatever they can to make their lives easier.  The whole "Deed it or Lose It" mentaility on Freedom has forced people into the false belief that they are in the right and everyone else is in the wrong if they just feel like using a deed to blockade other people's progress.  This whole Anti-Social this is my land, go away aspect of the game is a disgrace, especially from a CA, who should know better.

Sometimes the land features themselves force people into a need to work in a very specific area.  Blockading a reasonable attempt to make many people's lives on the server better for selfish, anti-social reasons only breeds the sentiment that the server is full and runs new players away from the game faster.  And running the new players away from the server is the fastest way to make it so that NOBODY gets to use the land when the servers go dark.

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Firstly, there is absolutely 0 chance of making a path along the west side of Crystal Lake, that land is cliff all the way to the water.

Secondly, as everyone who complains about the state of freedom mentions on a daily basis, the lands of Freedom are steep.  Big Deal.  The land being steep isn't an excuse to not try to make some sort of reasonable connecting route to a major part of the map.

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As long as the road isn't built on deed (if he is able to dig and pave on your deed, you need to change your permissions), and if he didn't tear down any enclosures, he is in his right. Perimeter, unless fenced in as an enclosure is part of the wilderness. You are allowed to fence it off for yourself, but if you don't do it, don't complain someone else did something there.

Now, if I understand correctly, one of the parties claims that fences were destroyed. If that was the case, then indeed the road builder did break the rules while building the road and should make a wider detour. But I don't understand people saying things like 'I don't want people to pass through my neighborhood,' even less coming from a CA! If you don't want a road to be built, deed the entire neighborhood, noone's stopping you.

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We activly help newbies relocat off of perimeters and into areas that they have a resonable amount to build on (at least a 21 x 21 so they can deed eventualy)  And I'm going to collect a few screens of the roads we have here, and where he has put a road and I will use That as an argument against your "too steep to make a road" saying.  Also if you say anyone is free to build on non deed area.. then I see no reason what so ever to how we restrict where and how that road passes the area via fences and terrain modification.

So random person deciding that an area looks good on the community map and not researching it and seeing if it is resonably passable before putting in the road should not be building a road in the first place.

Also I think what upsets us all is the fact that he did not wait for a reply from the local residents.

As it goes for wurm 2-3 days to wait is not that long of a time at all

SS's coming of road conditions

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If you don't want a road to be built, deed the entire neighborhood, noone's stopping you.

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He has 3 deeds in the area (4 with the new one) basicly claiming it.  But there is at 10 tile perimeter between each deed that he can't make impossible to build on.  And any way that road goes from that house is either ON a deed or a deed perimeter.

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He has 3 deeds in the area (4 with the new one) basicly claiming it.  But there is at 10 tile perimeter between each deed that he can't make impossible to build on.  And any way that road goes from that house is either ON a deed or a deed perimeter.

As I myself have been told (I learned it the hard way), if I don't fence off my perimeter, other players are free to assume I don't intend to use it, and terraform it (provided it serves some specific purpose, other than 'cause I can'). Now, building a road is a specific, understandable purpose to terraform someone's perimeter. Now, was the perimeter fenced off? If not, the deed owner does not have a claim under current Freedom rules. If you want full control, you should've made the deed bigger in the first place. I know very well this is sometimes not possible due to placing restrictions, but we have to work around it – enclosures allow to work around it very well.

That simple.

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Ok then by that standards sine the road was not announced and is not finished then by all right by placing his new deed the issue should be settled.

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the deed was placed on the existing house that the builder was trying to build right next to.

On terrain that spage had raised out of the water himself for the house.

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Ok then by that standards sine the road was not announced and is not finished then by all right by placing his new deed the issue should be settled.

For some reason I thought the road is complete. It is of course up to a GM to decide, if a highway in the making is already a highway, or not yet a highway. If the deed was placed in front of the road, than the builder has to make a detour, in my understanding. If the deed was placed over the road being built, this might fall under road griefing (this is even clearly stated that you cannot obstruct a road by placing a deed over it).

The road is not build, the part of the road which has been deeded, was our former offdeed house. and it did have road connecting to it, from "our" side so that we had easy access to it.

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Kilitra-of Kerkil's Talon and Hawk's Flight

I am a resident in the area of the intended road and it's intended traffic.

I have done all that is in my powers to see that the new people that come to our area find places to live that are actually deedable.  I feel that if everyone fenced thier perimeters, there would be no access to anywhere but the public roads.. no hunting grounds, no places to forage.  There would be no access to lands that may not already be settled, because the fences along the road would be continuous from the people that came before.  If I have to, I will fence the entire perimeter of our lands, and assist others in my area in the same endeavor.  Which when all is said and done, I'll be spending all my Wurm time fixing fences and making new ones.  All the new people that wander thru won't be getting assistance finding a place, I'll be too busy working on my fence.

I too know the itty bitty zigzag all too well...dragging an animal or cart, or riding an animal up and down it is a long and tedious task due to the slopes and the switchbacks.  I have ended up running down the cliffs to avoid the goblins, spiders, trolls, oh my.  I have listened to the olive groves hoping that it's not a spider as I headed up to the highway.  It's not the most pleasant of traveling areas.

I have also seen the devastation that players sometimes cause.  We have bad experiences with demands for "public" access roads.  ACME (3 people in total) mined a tunnel straight into a mine held by another in our area...they also wanted an access road and demanded to be allies so that they could pass thru his gates.  Thru not planning their access road they created a situation of invasion into someone else's deed.  This is within the last month.  There are still some tense moments over this.

I had spoke to Chewius.  I even friended him so that I could let him and Spage both know when the other was on.  I was told that he would wait to speak to Spage on joining the road with the road that Spage had already built.  The tunnel which is to be at the other end is still in progress...so the current "road" would be access for a limited community.  I am not sure how all that progressed, I informed them both yesterday of the others presence so they could speak.

The goal of this "road" is to reach FM? For a 1/4 of the server? To connect to a major piece of the map?

We are a small valley with a tiny access road.  There are maybe 30 of us who live in the area.  There is no room really for new development.  All this does for us, is supply a bunch of people to cut down the trees in places they can't build and destroy the flowers, grass, hillsides and etc that we have spent so much time preserving.  They will gripe about how the small zigzag is hard to navigate and will dig more "roads" around our deeds to have "better" access.  You can see that it is not to our advantage in anyway shape or form.  We are expected to be agreeable? To not try and guard our stuff zealously?  

We are hostile from experience.  We are anti-social from experience.  We spent the time and effort to be a "Backwoods" community.  

Everyone in our valley is aware of everyone else.  New names are noticed quickly.  I have tried my best to make sure that we are a positive experience, and relocate the ones trying to build on perimeters before they create havoc.  Now our community is to be hit by a flood of people that may or may not realize that they are in a poor building spot/someone's perimter?  We will not be able to maintain our "backwoods" friendliness or charm, let alone help all the people find good places to build and grow.

So in conclusion....I am not happy or agreeable.  I am hostile and anti-social.  I am happy to be a member of a tiny "backwoods" community where I escape from critters by jumping off cliffs and landing right on top of my own walls.(welcome to steep)  I don't want an easier road to the highway at the cost of my perimeter or deed.(eventuality...really look at that switchback city, with additional traffic comes new road projects)  I don't want more people running around my area.  

Kilitra - Kerkil's Talon and Hawk's Flight

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I waited until both parts had made their comments and I see a lot of misinformation that needs to be clarify:

But having someone walk up and say we will now expropriate your land to make a road, is not my opinion of good neighbourhood manner.

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The last question is, whether or not this stretch of road is a highway, and thus should be protected. I got no idea as to how roads are usually promoted, but i do not believe that you can just pave a two tile wide road and claim it is protected by the game rules.

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You want to quote rules,   Well rules are good and all but how about you look at the code of conduct.

http://www.wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=40290.0

The Freedom servers are intended to be a place where players can enjoy the creative side of wurm without the interference of conflict with other players. As such certain activities (while not against specific rules) are frowned upon and will not be tolerated. Players who choose to play on the Freedom servers are expected to behave in a manner that is curteous and polite to thier fellow players.

Kind rude to keep putting a road in even when asked not to  Also to our knowlegde this is not a sanctioned road and only serves a small portion of the server maybe 20 poeple effectively.

Players on freedom are able to do many things that affect the game world, which in turn affects ALL other players. Just because you CAN do something, does not mean that you SHOULD do something. If your actions will actively and negatively affect someone elses gameplay, DO NOT DO IT, discuss this with them first.

See last comment and the fact that we did as him.

Do not destroy walls or someones work just because it is off deed. (basic rule of thumb, if there is grass/crops or piles of food with the animals, and they are in a well maintained area, leave it alone)

Hey look at that./color]

Roads: Building / removing / blocking Roads. If someone (for whatever reason) doesnt want a road in a specific spot and they were there first kindly respect that. By the same token if you move into an area with a road, please respect that right of way and dont make massive changes / blockages to it without taking care to provide a good and obvious alternate route. If deeding across an existing road it is polite not to block it or make it hard to navigate.

Looks like spage was here first.

So if he is gonna be rude.. I see why we can't be as rude to him and make his attempts as hard as possible.

I hate having to resort to childish tactics like this.. but seeing as it is our only recorse to protect the surrounding area I will do as I must.

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