when will we start getting players?

[san_tropez 394]

I thought the idea behind Epic was that you did not need to transfer a character over, but that you could log directly in with your own account?

[Gaeron 551]

I thought the idea behind Epic was that you did not need to transfer a character over, but that you could log directly in with your own account?

As of the last understanding the name would go across but it would be a completely separate character instance. It was also understood that you could play  yourname on wild/freedom or play yourname on epic but not at the same time. This is not official either, we have to wait until Rolf is ready to announce how he intends implementing it all.

[PoolsClosed 37]

I'll play again if Rolf unbans my account Poolsclosed

Hasn't everyone had enough time to catch up to the skills yet?!

[Torluk 21]

Pictures incoming, my apologies to those on slow connections.

Freedom near the end of August/start of September last year:

Freedom Today:

A picture is worth a thousand words and it is clear Rolf has had a lot of success in growing the game over the last year. 

The pictures also make it pretty clear that if he wants to maintain that kind of growth then he is not gonna get it with Freedom.

[nervesplitter 0]

Let me rephrase for him

"This is a really cool game, I was wondering if we have anything in place ASIDE from epic to help us pick up new players? As I would love to see new fun land to settle with lots of new characters that I could recruit"

Now my two bits.

On freedom I know uninhabited deeds that have upkeep in them and active owners, the older players simply don't want newbs messing them up so they don't recruit them. So I think a training center right by the Howl would help out a lot. It would take a lot of effort but I think that will help keep new players and get them to a point where we can go to recruit them.

Also for out of game we could always try posting on facebook, my space, ect. I mean I found this game on a Mine craft forum. So yeah post around in FB, my space, google plus ect. to get more players and maybe everyone can help make a training camp so that older players are more willing to recruit newbs.

Just my two cents to my version of the OP.

epic will be prem only, and it's not like epic is completely original and there's no game like it which is also free. WoW, you think newbs will pay for prem right off?

and it's ok to and extent where the newbs have to walk hours to find space to put their first 1x1.

if we had decent deed controls I'd see many more newbs coming in to new villages and I'd start playing more.

perimeter should be destroyed, size 100 perimeter right next to me.

and the lag we have now is really bad, if we split up the players into the servers we will have less lag and more space.

[Devean 51]

Re: pictures of Freedom. While I agree that the number of deeds has grown over the year (hell, I've created one, sold it, and now will plant a new one shortly), I would go for half the difference between the pictures. The August map from last year does not have many deeds that were there for quite some time. It's just the map was not as popular as it is now.

[Gavin 971]

I guess part of the problem could be solved if Rolf heavily increased decay on off-deed structures on Freedom, as ql60 houses literally can last years without repair, and noob shacks at 20ql can block entire areas for months. But I still feel that Rolf and Wurm would benefit more from a new Freedom server.

If anything I would suggest do the reverse, there is LOTS of room around, even right at the spawn, so long as all you want is a small house (say 3x3) and a small amount of tiles to farm (say 10 tiles), I would suggest the issue is a combination of needing to have large amounts of space to get anywhere (example: how hard farming is at newbie levels) and most deeds having large perimeters blocking settlements being founded, Freedom Market and The Howl especially have obnoxiously large perimeters.

Because of that, I would be totally against even further reinforcing the benefits gained from putting a deed down. I would instead tackle why it is so hard to live without a huge deed (that costs next to nothing, for a established player) and/or occupying copious amounts of undeeded land - I seem to recall when I started playing Wurm, it was a minority of people who owned a deed, it was actually somewhat rare to bump into deeds away from the spawn point, now it appears it's a minority who are deedless.

I unfortunately don't know much about Freedom before the deed change was implemented, however on JKH1 especially, and to a lesser extent 2, it seemed like people 'wanted' alot less room - the vast majority of deeds, even ones owned by well established communities was s5, less were s10, and a deed of s15 or more was extremely rare. Now it seems like it's rare for established communities to own such small amounts of space. What changed? Is the deed "fix" to blame?

[elite 27]

But look at all the space inbetween deeds.

Freedom could handle 2-3 times the number of deeds easily.

No need for a 2nd server, just better equipment to ensure no finishing lag.

[san_tropez 394]

I would rather have Rolf looking into what causes the lag, and how he can optimize it.

[Othob Rithol 700]

The pictures also make it pretty clear that if he wants to maintain that kind of growth then he is not gonna get it with Freedom.

While I agree that the number of deeds has grown over the year (hell, I've created one, sold it, and now will plant a new one shortly), I would go for half the difference between the pictures.

It's roughly tripled in the last year.

---

Paraphrase: Plenty of room, perimeters to blame, it was different back in the day.

Your comparison sort of neglects the no-plant zones we had back then (a size 5 village had the equivalent of a 50 perimeter as far as other deeds were concerned). I'd not be for removing perimeter, however, as it pretty much is the only way of guaranteeing some wilderness between deeds. Probably the best way to curtail its abuse would be to apply a penalty to its price based on the ratio of deed tiles to perimeter tiles. If you favor perimeter over deed you start paying more for it. Or maybe just a hard cap on perimeter equal to something like 2x deed size on that axis.

[Gavin 971]

There is official data for deeds:

Not far off 4x the deeds.

[nervesplitter 0]

But look at all the space inbetween deeds.

Freedom could handle 2-3 times the number of deeds easily.

No need for a 2nd server, just better equipment to ensure no finishing lag.

have you ever actually gone to these "gaps"?

5% free space

50% unmarked deeds

25% perimeter

20% mountains and/or uninhabitable land

[Devean 51]

I'd not be for removing perimeter, however, as it pretty much is the only way of guaranteeing some wilderness between deeds. Probably the best way to curtail its abuse would be to apply a penalty to its price based on the ratio of deed tiles to perimeter tiles. If you favor perimeter over deed you start paying more for it. Or maybe just a hard cap on perimeter equal to something like 2x deed size on that axis.

Hell, I'd even go for a hard cap: max perimeter = deed size. Small, basic S5 deed? Only 5 perimeter, no bonus. Want more perimeter? Buy a larger deed first.

And

5% free space

50% unmarked deeds

25% perimeter

20% mountains and/or uninhabitable land

I so totally second that. With a twist, that 50% is unmarked deeds and walled off, non-deeded land.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Well we have a lot of different issues interweaving through the thread. Is the server land area  too crowded, while paradoxically population is too sparse? Do new players have no real role to play because advanced players don't really need them? Should players want to congregate or do you need to force them to?

One way you could make players want to congregate would be if players could team up to create a regional hub. This hub could not be on deeded land, and access would be "protected" the same way major highways are. Perhaps you might need a gathering/linking of priests or some other way of making the formation of a hub a true community effort, maybe even require 50 players to congregate to form a new hub spot. There would be certain very attractive bonuses to skills within this hub area, as well as having a hub bank (deposit as well as withdraw), mailbox and other facilities. But it would still take a very concerted joint effort to create this spot. Most players might still do most craftwork at home but the bonuses might make occasional travel there for special work, very attractive. Maybe its a stackable 10 COC/WOA type effect. Plus perhaps a "storage exhange" where you could drop off goods for a trade partner to pick up after they paid the fee. Not cod since that is a pain with multiple items, but more of a "parcel pickup area" perhaps more convenient to both parties, and without them needing to time their online schedules. Any item could be left there for pickup including crates barrels and livestock.  Merchant stalls etc, but again this is a true player created area. New players would be able to reset their spawn point to ONE regional hub if they do not have a village, which would make it more attractive to move away from the Howl, as well as lessening the temptation for some players to think they "owned" a hub area by making it a magnet for new players.

Another system to help integrate newer players might be a special apprenticeship system. Skills might evolve even slower after certain points like 50 70 90 but what if advanced players had an incentive to having an apprentice, who might get basic assistance (food/tools/resources) provided by the senior crafter and the senior crafter perhaps get a bonus from the relationship in turn, perhaps something similar to sleep bonus but a special separate pool, so that while a young apprentice blacksmith was actively working at his skill he would actually be accruing bonuses for his teacher that would in turn make their own advancement much much less arduous. Players without an apprentice would have a harder time getting to high levels, it would be even harder than now if you did not take on apprentices. Once the apprentice reached a certain skill level, like 30, the relationship with automatically dissolve. A senior blacksmith might well find having 2-3 young apprentices much more attractive. Plus, I think advanced players naturally WANT to teach and this provides a structure for that, and what senior craftsman wouldn't want the equivalent of extra sleep-type bonus (which could only be applued in their "taught" specialty)? Perhaps if the veteran were leery about taking an unknown apprentice into a deeded area, the apprentice could even base out of a nearby hub area with the teacher making periodic visits to make sure their needs were being met -- an unhappy apprentice might be lured away by a rival veteran if not provided for well.

Perhaps we also need a few volacanoes creating some new offshore islands for more landspace although perhaps again, a vast enormous linking of priests -- on a larger scale than anything else in game -- could do this. The more priests in the linking the larger the landmass, and imagine if every priest in the game traveled to help on creating one such new landspace. And also maybe a player CHOOSING to disband a deed, can on the writ have a checkbox to "reset" the area of all buildings/walls/fences and man-made articles to help restore it faster to a natural state. I think many deeds that disband on purpose are left as ugly ghostowns of decaying structures because its just too hard to really erase all that stuff, but if you can destroy a house through a writ why not an entire settlement too?

[Devean 51]

The Hub idea is brilliant!

[Othob Rithol 700]

I wanted something similar back when deeds were being re-envisioned.

I'd go with a system where individual deeds (private residences/farms/workshops if you will) provide little more than decay protection and permission management and have no chat and no perimeter at all. A player could have as many as they wanted and could afford. Control would be far more in depth allowing assignments of individual non-citizen friends to roles.

A second place-able would represent a kingdom/community/commune/city. It would cast a fixed mix of perimeter/Area of control by default and be rather pricey (1g sounds right). Individual players could be recruited to it and they would share a chat. Members could also link any deeds they own that are within the area of control or very near it. Each deed would automatically contribute to the upkeep of the city as well as enhance it's ability to project influence. Additional influence/perimeter could not be purchased directly - the only means to expand would be to add additional deeds to the city. It's token would be a spawn point and bank as well as the option (at some expense of course) to be a transport location to linked tokens or for new players etc. When influences met they would push gently against each other.

There would be no per account limits to membership in either type.

[Ecrir 887]

I think we need a new Freedom server, and then move the new player starting point there (though prems could choose to start on either server).

But before that, change Chat to it's own server and make the kingdom chat shared over all Freedom servers, same for village chat. So if you change to another server in the Freedom cluster then you are still part of the same village and can still chat with them in village chat.

Also make it possible to pm somebody even if he's not on the same server, as long as he's in the same cluster. Same for mailing, Also make deeds and writs work on the Freedom cluster instead of just the server that you are on.

That way, new Freedom maps would just be an extension and communities wouldn't be split up over the maps since they can communicate in game. Villages could even have their people spread out over multiple servers with multiple deeds. The villages would all be a member of the main deed but could live on secondary deeds and that way they could all communicate with each other. Community is very important in a game like Wurm, which is why I feel such a change to the chat/writ/deed system is vital if a new Freedom server is to be added. It would also benefit wild/epic if more servers of that type are added in the future.

Maybe also make it possible to create your own portals between servers, for example using a twin system. Two portals would be linked to each other and couldn't go anywhere else, and they can't go to portals on the same server (maybe also a 1/deed limit, or a limit like towers). This way you have a faster inter-server travel than boats or portals put in the center of each server, which again decreases the distance between groups of players, increasing the sense of community. Though I guess portal hubs like at FM, together with boat travel, can be good enough.

[Othob Rithol 700]

All good ideas.

[Mrbloodworth 41]

Most of us are working on improving existing items ( Animations, GUI ) where the real adoption issues are.

[paterso 104]

Whatever happened to the old method of having newbies on the server? the old Jenn Kellon methods.

Just plant a NewTown, shove a 200 perimeter on that thing, make the surrounding area specifically designed for newbies to temporarily live in safety, and let wurm have another mini-metropolis like we did on JK-Home. Can't say we ever had serious issues back then.

[nervesplitter 0]

I'd love it if the devs made a huge deed in the dead center of the map, made lots of stone houses and filled them with merchants selling certain wares and made it look real nice. that way people don't come on and go "ugh look at all these houses and boats merged together, what a crap game".

if you die when on the deed you will keep all your stuff and your corpse will not appear.

you could have market stalls with players in trying to sell meals etc. it would be a lively place full of players and no corpses.

infact I'd like to design the "hub", I like designing deeds. it could have the token raised up in the middle and make it all look nice so players are instantly addicted.

[paterso 104]

I'd love it if the devs made a huge deed in the dead center of the map, made lots of stone houses and filled them with merchants selling certain wares and made it look real nice. that way people don't come on and go "ugh look at all these houses and boats merged together, what a crap game".

if you die when on the deed you will keep all your stuff and your corpse will not appear.

you could have market stalls with players in trying to sell meals etc. it would be a lively place full of players and no corpses.

infact I'd like to design the "hub", I like designing deeds. it could have the token raised up in the middle and make it all look nice so players are instantly addicted.

Newtown Meets Freedom Market? +1

[Elwood2 352]

haha, kinda like that, Newtown 2.0

+1

[Wulfgar 1,121]

Freedom could handle 2-3 times the number of deeds easily.

Yes, if Wurm was marketed as a urban simulator game, which it isn't.

The charm of Wurm (in the good old days) was vast uninhabited areas where you could hunt and explore, now the Grand Steppe has turned into Golden Valley 2.0, and I bet

Eastern Plains is the next target. Then all the steppes has been wiped off the map.

[Urman 1]

(Hub Idea)

I'd love it if the devs made a huge deed in the dead center of the map, made lots of stone houses and filled them with merchants selling certain wares and made it look real nice.  ...  you could have market stalls with players in trying to sell meals etc. it would be a lively place full of players and no corpses.

No!  A thousand times, no!  The entire concept of a sandbox game dictates that the developers provide the tools, and the players build stuff! 

If the game included concepts like Brash's hub system or Othob's old proposals for deeds and subordinate deeds, then the players would create such areas, on their own.  It would just happen. 

Fullkontact and other GMs did a whole lot of development of Newtown on JKH - and it wasn't particularly functional, except trader row.  Players built up a lot of stuff in the surrounding area and that was functional and organic.