low QL = faster skill gain?

[scottv 1]

Can someone explain the correlation between item QL and skill gain?  I have heard that low QL items, give you the opportunity to get more skill gains, is that true?

For example: 1QL pickaxe vs 50QL pickaxe - mining skill goes up faster with the 1QL pickaxe?  Is that true?  Why does that work that way?

Thanks!

[Hordern 2,177]

Not quite as simple as that. Skillgain is related to action timer length. Gneerally, the longer the timer, the more skill you get - unless it's really hard. You will generally get the best skillgain by being 50% successful at what you're doing.

If you translate that to mining, you want to get some 1QL shards/ores, some midding, and some max QL.

When you have low skills, a higher QL pick will give you a good chance to be at that 50% mark, but as your skill increases, and the timer reduces (not that with mining this generally happens around 50 skill now), your success increases. To bring that back to 50%, you need to use a lower QL pick.

There may be other factors I'm not aware of, but once you've got going on mining, high coc on 30ish QL seems to work well.

[scottv 1]

I understand now.. the opportunity to skill gain isn't based on the completion of the action but as long as the timer is moving you have a chance to get a skill increase?

[Hordern 2,177]

The way I think of it, the game adds up time spent doing an action, and you gain skill depending on the length of time you've done it for, then updates your skill periodically. It's not all like meditation where you have a CHANCE of gaining skill.

However, if this was purely the case, there would be no difference between doing lots of fast actions, or one long one. This is where other factors come in - like % success chance, stamina (you gain little or no skill if you're at 0% stamina) and no doubt a whole raft of other variables that we haven't got a clue about

Again, I could be wrong, but that's my understanding of the main factors.

[MrGARY 12,421]

It's not necessarily the timers you want to change; it's the ore/shard ql you produce that you want to modulate.  You can only get a skill gain chance when you mine a shard/ore that ranges from 1.01 to 39.99 ql.  (The ql cap on the wall does not change anything, as the game still runs a check as for the ql mined, you can get a roll where you mine a 60ql ore but the wall is capped at 30ql, you will not gain skill!)  That is where the lower ql pickaxe would come into play, giving more skill than a higher ql pickaxe, bearing in mind the proper parameters are met for the correct average ql of material mined.  If it is too low ql for your skill and the ore you are mining (or if on rock even, at low skill possibly) you will not gain skill efficiently as you are mining too many failures (1ql shard/ore). 

Honestly timers mainly come into play with mining for body stats only.  Stat gains are per action, so speed picking will be best for stats, and easier actions are also best for stats, so with rock being the easiest material to mine, speed picking rock would be the way to go for stats. 

Crafting is a bit different.  Longer actions do give more skill gain, which is generally why you shouldn't use WoA for grinding a crafting skill.  I prefer higher ql tools for grinding a crafting skill however.  You gain the best skill when the imps are the hardest, which is imping something past your skill at lower levels, or even imping to your skill at higher levels.  Higher ql tools allow me to imp further, netting me more skill gain.  Higher ql tools also give better imps when the item being imped is low ql, and as I mentioned before easier actions are better for body stats.  So higher ql tools would be best imo for stat gains from initial imping, and skill gain for finish imping.

Just some stuff I've learned from others, and proved/found out myself

[Godrobotswife 9]

Mining Lvl= 45.703682

pickaxe= Iron, 12.4 Ql WoA 68 Coc 82  Action timer full stamina= 10.9 seconds 5 actions for tick of .004646 xp in 54.5 seconds 
2nd set of swings 6 actions gave .004795 xp in 65.4 seconds Overall .00944 xp in 119.9 seconds

mining level=45.720478

pickaxe= iron 7.40 ql Blank Action timer stamina= 15.7 seconds 4 actions for tick of .00367 xp in 62.8 seconds
2nd set of swings 6 actions untill a tick of .00367 xp in 94.2 seconds Overall .00734 xp in 157 seconds

A low ql Blank pickaxe does not Give you more skill gain than a slightly higher Ql enchanted pickaxe. This Recorded equation
Shows it takes longer to get less xp with the lower Ql Blank pick. 

Next pickaxe. 

Mining Level= 45.727818

Pickaxe= Iron 88.00 Ql Woa 98 Coc 92  Action timer= 5.7 seconds after 1 action I gained  .002578 xp in 5.7 seconds
2nd set of action took 1 action with a skill gain of .00256 in 5.7 seconds .005138 in 11.4 seconds
3rd set of actions tick in 2 actions which was .002712 in 11.4 seconds
4th set of actions tick in 1 action which was .002514 in 5.7 seconds  Overall .010364 in 28.5 seconds

Therefore between all three pickaxes the higher ql high enchant pickaxe gained xp much faster than both the other low Ql
picks.Now the high ql Enchanted pick Against a Low ql Coc only pickaxe.

Mining level=45.738182

Pickaxe= iron 2.31 Ql Coc 71 Action timer full stamina= 16.1 seconds after 1 action i gained .00634 in 16.1 seconds
2nd set of actions took 4 actions to gain .006344 in 64.4 seconds
3rd set of actions took 2 action to gain  .006363 in 32.2 seconds
4th set of action took 5 actions to gain ..00634 in  80.5 seconds  Overall  .025383xp gained in 177.1 seconds 

Therefore the High Ql High enchant pickaxe  Killed the low Ql 77 Coc pickaxe Even with 90 Coc It Most likely would not 
Surpass the High Ql High Enchant pick.

Low stamina mining for both the High Ql high enchant and the low Ql coc 77= 
Hig ql88 Woa 98 Coc 92 time with no stamina 11.3 seconds skill tick in 2 actions at .000618 in 22.6 seconds
2nd set skill tick in 1 action of  .000621 in 11.3 seconds
3rd set skill tick in 2 actions of .000625 in 22.6 seconds  Overall .001864 in 45.2 seconds

2 ql 77 coc pick action time= 41.2 seconds skill tick in 2 actions at .001481 in 82.4 seconds
2nd set = 1 action for a tick of .001476 in 41.2 seconds
3rd set=  1 action for a tick of .001476 in 41.2 seconds  overall .004433 in 164.8 seconds.

in conclusion Low stamina mining, Does not give you more xp faster. It gives you less xp slower. The higher 88 ql woa 98
Coc 92 pickaxe Gained more experience faster with and withought stamina than the low ql 77 coc pickaxe. 

Skill ticks seem to be random but the higher ql pickaxe was getting them faster than the other picks. Tho the skills gain 
was less per tick, it was still more overall exp per minute. Making the winner the high ql high woa/coc pickaxe.
If this coc pick were to be a 100 coc It still looks as if it would not beat or would be equal to the high ql/enchant pickaxe.
Moral of this equation Go for the High ql High Enchant tools. The low Ql pick also took alot more damage and the more repairs
needed the faster the enchants drop on the pick. You will also not get nearly the ore/rock when mining with low ql tools. 

[Godrobotswife 9]

skiller tools are Not really worth it unless you cannot obtain a high ql high woa/bodt or woa pickaxe I am currently gaining skill faster with my good pickaxe than I am with the skiller. The above Was SANDSTONE mining.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Godrobotswife

[Sheffie 1,120]

That's nowhere near enough data points to make statements about skill gain, which is determined from (pseudo) random numbers.

 

I'm not saying that your numbers are incorrect or that you didn't accurately report or compare your numbers. I'm saying that it's a mistake to extrapolate from them and say that based on two minutes with a pickaxe you understand mining skillgain better than players who've been doing it for years.

[Godrobotswife 9]

Im not done yet, It is not possible to come to a conclusion. I will be mining every ore and rock tile for 15 mins on  both the high ql woa/coc pickaxe a high ql Botd pickaxe 

ill also be adding the outcome of using a 1 ql, a 50 ql and a 90 ql blank pickaxe on all ore/rock tiles.  and finally a Low ql botd and a low ql woa/coc pickaxe. I hear everyone talk about this data thats been accumulated for years, but where was that data when I was sold a low ql high coc pickaxe and told it was better than a 90 ql 90 qoa 90 coc pickaxe? If everyone thinks the skill gain is random, then that would in fact make it impossible to calculate, making this data everyone speaks of not accurate. I just enjoy math and would like to write this pattern of skillgain down. I have been told by many different people in the last 2 years what works best and most efficient, and 2 years later found it to be incorrect, so its only normal that I want to see the exact equation, which isn't hard to figure out.  If you mine every tile with a 1 ql a 50 ql and a 90 ql pickaxe, and do the same with the other pickaxes above, and make a graph over any period of time, you will either see a pattern if not random or wont see a pattern if it is random.  If it is random then you cannot calculate which pickaxes are the best because it would be randomization over time and would be different for everyone at every level. I was just told longer actions with low ql coc pickaxe give you bigger skill gains, but that doesn't matter if you have a good pickaxe which gives you  skill faster.  I'm looking forward to putting this all down for new players to read here in the forums.

[Godrobotswife 9]

46.351013 current skill
rock
2 ql 2.3 coc 77 speed= 16.1  took 5 actions for a tick of .006828 in 80.5 seconds
set 2 took 1 action for a tick of .oo6821 in 16.1 seconds
set 3 took 4 actions for a tick of .006985 in 80.5 seconds  Overall 177.1 seconds for.020634  xp

88 ql Woa 98 coc 93 speed= 5.6 seconds took 5 actions for a tick of .002663= 28 seconds  
set 2  after 3 action a tick of .002658 = 16.8 seconds
set 3  17 actions for a tick of .002652=  95.2 seconds  Overall .oo7973 in 140 seconds

Therefore The low Ql 77 coc Pickaxe Beat the 88 Ql woa 98 coc 93 pickaxe mining rock. and gained
skill faster, now would it be more efficient to mine the sandstone with a high ql pickaxe or the stone with a low
ql coc 77 pickaxe? lets calculate. This equation shows the skill gain bar variation between sandstone and 
a good pickaxe and rock with a bad pickaxe. 

Skill gained in on sandstone was .1 in 28.5 seconds skill gained with a low ql coc pick on rock was
.2 in 177.1 seconds making sandstone much better xp at lvl 45 mining with a good pickaxe. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Godrobotswife

[Godrobotswife 9]

 This wasn't to make anyone mad or disprove anything or anyone, but simply put the graph at https://www.dreamsleeve.org/wurm/grinder/  is not accurate enough to show you the exact experience gain difference between pickaxes and certain enchantments, but what I did above was simply to show that It is not always better to mine with "skiller" tools at low ql. In order to Find the skill gain exact difference between different pickaxes, one would have to take the percentages off the graph and subtract to find the skill gain for their pickaxe, which isn't actually accurate as the graph doesn't have a simple coc /woa or botd calculator applied making the amount you get much more than what the graph shows it as.  For Some reason I'm one of the few who actually cares about exact numbers  But luckily for me I made a more easy to read graph with exact numbers woohoo.. 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Godrobotswife

[Locath 523]

 

[Finnn 3,298]

15 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

try that ^

 

for mining best use the recommended above, the tl;dr explanation is in the end:

Quote

• • The best skillgain percentage possible is somewhere around 52.5%, with a mean of 20.

start and end of the whole witchcraft is to find mining tile type(they have different difficulties) to mine and specific pickaxe QL - best fitting your mining skill level, to get that recommended % chance

[Godrobotswife 9]

yes it was a bummer I didn't find this before I calculated for 3 hours, but after finishing it all up I was able to make a power point graph, I found the power point graph I made to be much more accurate than this graph above, I am also able to include percentages for each strength of coc/woa and botd and convert it all from percentage to decimal,  which that graph doesn't have from what I saw, tho the base skill gain is still the same pattern its a bit different, and  more accurate. Thanks all for help finding I was mining With the wrong pickaxe on the wrong tile at the wrong level

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Godrobotswife

[Darkelf 35]

Another tip, many have gave up on it. When they started to climb, once you get more experience in it, try add more weight without risky yourself. I noticed that i was beginning get less skill gain on climbing, cause of my climbing skill is right on the par, so you can add more weight and making it worth while.

 

Good infos here, glad you mention it.

[Borstaskor 503]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:51 AM, Godrobotswife said:

yes it was a bummer I didn't find this before I calculated for 3 hours, but after finishing it all up I was able to make a power point graph, I found the power point graph I made to be much more accurate than this graph above, I am also able to include percentages for each strength of coc/woa and botd and convert it all from percentage to decimal,  which that graph doesn't have from what I saw, tho the base skill gain is still the same pattern its a bit different, and  more accurate. Thanks all for help finding I was mining With the wrong pickaxe on the wrong tile at the wrong level

 

Coc/botd isn't related to difficulty.

 

Using the correct ql pickaxe and mining the correct ore affects the frequency of skill ticks. The basic info is that optimally you want a tick approximately every 1/2 actions.

 

Coc/botd increases the size of the skill tick. A 100 power coc/botd turns a 0.01 tick in to a 0.02 tick.

 

The reason why coc/botd isn't represented in that graph is because it's unrelated to that mechanic. Both increases skill gain, which is the confusing part I assume but they both increases it in very different ways. To maximize gains, you want good casts but you also want to properly balance difficulty.