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Rolf

Fighting system feedback

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Allright, try to give some feedback on the current system please. We have two days to try and sort any really serious problems out now before I go on vacation. Both positive and negative is wanted and required!

Consider that blocking with the shield should be a lot more common in defensive mode and the rate at which you block is dependant on your defensive fight style skill. I didn't want to raise the requirements  to get to a decent fighting level too much which is a main reason why the skillgain increased for the fighting styles.

Also, armour glance rates for your armour against creatures are of extra interest. I made them less dependant on the type of attacks the creature does since I don't think you want to keep those types in your head, or feel you can't fight a creature because you have the wrong armour. So I'd like some feedback on what you think about that as well. Maybe the glance rate was lowered too much and creatures became too tough again?

I got the feeling that the system was pretty good two days ago so I don't want to break anything. Numbers can still be tweaked.

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Overall the fighting against creatures seems fine again, only thorn in my eye are the glances when fighting against creatures, a maul should not glance 3 times off the armor of a wolf (what armor, exactly?). If I have glances against scorpions or crocodiles I would say its fine because of their natural armor.

Another thing I noticed is that I now gain defensive fighting even slower than before, at 80+ skill I got 0,0076 in 50 minutes from foals, and I switched the targets at 25 minutes to avoid the annoying skillgain stall. I am training quite often and I always watched my gains, they were slow but right now there doesnt seem to be any real advancement in it, it seems the gain was decreased, not increased.

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I killed a bunch of creatures in normal stance and gained zero skill for some reason.

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Please fix the parent skill bug before you leave. Weapons are gaining parent skills at the rate the children should be gaining and vice versa. More information in this thread: http://wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=57879.0

I've noticed it on swords and shields, others have noticed it on mauls. I'm willing to bet it's happening in all the weapons and shield skills.

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Please fix the parent skill bug before you leave. Weapons are gaining parent skills at the rate the children should be gaining and vice versa. More information in this thread: http://wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=57879.0

I've noticed it on swords and shields, others have noticed it on mauls. I'm willing to bet it's happening in all the weapons and shield skills.

I was out hunting and did not notice this. Gained about 4 times as much weapon subskill as weapon parentskill.

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I find shields need to block more tbh, it just doesn't feel like they block as much anymore, i get hit quite a lot, and i have excellent shield skill.

Also tower guards could do with a tweak, i only had 2 of them on me, on horseback in scale,i got down to hurt/wounded, could be due to the shield blocking stuff ^

They should be more of a hindrance than any real defense.

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it seems the gain was decreased, not increased.

Got the same feeling, skillgain in sub fighting skills went down a little instead of up.

I find shields need to block more tbh, it just doesn't feel like they block as much anymore, i get hit quite a lot, and i have excellent shield skill.

Also tower guards could do with a tweak, i only had 2 of them on me, on horseback in scale,i got down to hurt/wounded, could be due to the shield blocking stuff ^

They should be more of a hindrance than any real defense.

Was that before or after the shield and scale changes?

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I don't see a problem with shields myself, I block a lot, especially in defensive. My skills are below average.

Animals are a bit tougher than usual but nothing out of hand, I think it's good so far.

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I don't see a problem with shields myself, I block a lot, especially in defensive. My skills are below average.

Animals are a bit tougher than usual but nothing out of hand, I think it's good so far.

Ah, I'm in normal most of the time. looks like defensive works as intended, i think there is a problem with the normal stance by the looks of it then

I find shields need to block more tbh, it just doesn't feel like they block as much anymore, i get hit quite a lot, and i have excellent shield skill.

Also tower guards could do with a tweak, i only had 2 of them on me, on horseback in scale,i got down to hurt/wounded, could be due to the shield blocking stuff ^

They should be more of a hindrance than any real defense.

Was that before or after the shield and scale changes?

after, and i was in normal fight stance to add

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I was out hunting and did not notice this. Gained about 4 times as much weapon subskill as weapon parentskill.

What kind of weapon are you using? I've noticed it on swords and shields both yesterday and the day before. Unless Rolf fixed it, it should still be happening with longswords at the very least. .44 gain in overall and .09 in longswords sure seems broken to me, especially with a coc sword.

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I was out hunting and did not notice this. Gained about 4 times as much weapon subskill as weapon parentskill.

What kind of weapon are you using? I've noticed it on swords and shields both yesterday and the day before. Unless Rolf fixed it, it should still be happening with longswords at the very least. .44 gain in overall and .09 in longswords sure seems broken to me, especially with a coc sword.

Medium maul.

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Sounds like it might only be particular weapons then, maybe I'll do a little testing when I get home.

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Large metal shields and Large wooden shields still hardly block in normal mode.

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IMO Since there is now a 20 second cool down on shield-bashing, skill gain should be increased by a factor of at least 5.

You could shield bash 5 times in 20 seconds before, now you can only bash once.

Maybe even raise that skill gain by more, it was painfully slow already when you just trained on animals.

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IMO Since there is now a 20 second cool down on shield-bashing, skill gain should be increased by a factor of at least 5.

You could shield bash 5 times in 20 seconds before, now you can only bash once.

Maybe even raise that skill gain by more, it was painfully slow already when you just trained on animals.

I got it to 15 seconds? Using medium metal.

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went out hunting today, animals are deffinitly doing a lot more damage to me lately. I think its shield not blocking so much and also glance rates on chain.

skill gain for shield bashing needs to be looked into, was already hard enough, it has just made it harder for beginners. Perhaps even make it so you gain the same amount of skill on animals as you do on alts, it is silly trying to grind it atm without alts. :P (lets face it, you hardly get any skill in shield bashing in pvp anyhow)

Apart from those, the system seems to be alright :)

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I got it to 15 seconds? Using medium metal.

LMS was 20 secs for me. Haven't tried any other yet.

In any case skill gain should be adjusted so it is at least the same as prior to adding a cool down. Don't think anyone is interested in making that skill even slower to raise.

I personally think it should be increased a lot more, but making it the same as before the cool down would be fine I guess.

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Yeah lol, first no more bashing alts which basically reduced shield bashing skill gain insanly to almost 0, now with the new waiting time the skill gain is even closer to 0 ...

it's impossible to get it to reasonable skill level now, not that it were near possible since the bashing alt changes, but this is kinda ridiculous now.  ::)

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I'm still a bit miffed at the changes that made various skills easier to gain, notably shield and subskill, as I put alot of effort into those and nearly had both at max, but I guess I should be used to those kind of changes now - I just hope crafting skills are never made any easier to gain, at least so far that has been left alone in the skill gain department.

I know this is more or less a beta and all, but it seems like I have been through similar stuff many, many, many times - it just seems frustrating when I'm sure there are ways to achieve a similar result without toying with skills,  at least things like rule of 70 still make you still feel special you have got the skill that high, but help others out by lowering it's effectiveness.


That aside I like alot of the fighting changes that have happened lately, notably defensive fighting blocking more, but you do tiny damage to compensate - aggressive seems to be moving in the right direction also.

I have not done much fighting for quite some time and have just been crafting, but one thing I noticed yesterday when messing around was the cap on subskill gain per creature seems obscene, I gained somewhere between 12 and 15 shield points in absolutely no time (in a shield I'm not very skilled in), but only 0,15 subskill - I got ticks in 0,05 amounts - then nothing for hours, then 0.05 etc.

It should be made so you can gain unlimited subskill from a creature, like you can shield.

I find shields need to block more tbh, it just doesn't feel like they block as much anymore, i get hit quite a lot, and i have excellent shield skill.

Have you tried in defensive? I don't block much in normal, but block like crazy in defensive.

Also tower guards could do with a tweak, i only had 2 of them on me, on horseback in scale,i got down to hurt/wounded, could be due to the shield blocking stuff ^

They should be more of a hindrance than any real defense.

I agree here, they do seem to be alot harder than before now.

In regards to shield bashing now having a CD, I'd prefer if shield bashing animals gave the same skill as bashing alts, and the CD only allied in PvP, not PvE.

This would kill two birds with one stone as it also removes the need to purchase alts to use to gain shield bashing skill.

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In regards to shield bashing now having a CD, I'd prefer if shield bashing animals gave the same skill as bashing alts, and the CD only allied in PvP, not PvE.

This would kill two birds with one stone as it also removes the need to purchase alts to use to gain shield bashing skill.

Yeah this would be the optimal solution imo.

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I use large metal shield + either longsword, medium maul, or small maul.

I've been messing with the different stances since the fight system changes, and found I block a ton in defensive mode (even with low defensive sub skill), while my hits are weak (which seems about right).

I still block a lot in normal mode, but definitely get hit much more often than defensive... I also hit much harder in normal mode (this seems pretty balanced as well).

Dual-wielding aggressive mode seemed kinda weird.. admittedly I've only killed a couple mobs with agg mode, but I didn't really seem to get hit as much as I expected, and just mowed down the mob very quickly. Will have to test it a bit more.

The thing that seems bugged to me (and annoying) is weapon subskill. I've gained nearly no subskill, yet the parent skill seems to rise regularly. I'm sure this has been pointed out by others, but tbh I havn't really read any of the feedback threads.

I'll mess around with it more tonight.

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The thing that seems bugged to me (and annoying) is weapon subskill. I've gained nearly no subskill, yet the parent skill seems to rise regularly. I'm sure this has been pointed out by others, but tbh I havn't really read any of the feedback threads.

It has been pointed out, but it has also been denied and ignored by many players. It's super annoying to me and it needs to be fixed before Rolf leaves for vacation, otherwise people are going to be claiming 'window of opportunity' for parent skills. Basically parent skills are raising at the rates that subskills should and vice versa. So far it's been observed for shields, swords and mauls, though some claim that isn't true, so it may be specific to certain types of weapon subskills.

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Perhaps it would be possible to tweak either end (animals weaker or skills/gear better-performing) of fighting the 'starter-animals' for new(ish) players (lets say up to bear for instance?) in such a way, that it is not practically mandatory for new players to get/buy high-level weapons and armor before going out to fight almost anything now?

(Would like to see players that want to, or financially have to, fight their own way up in the game, making their own gear at their own skill-levels along the way for at least the first part, having an acceptable chance of being able to take this route - I don't think this is well possible anymore now from what I am hearing)

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Having things like gorilla's get armour glances from my 90QL maul is just...weird lol.

More importantly weapon skillgain just sseems horribly borked =/ I'm out hunting atm and gaining loads of overall maul skill but as good as nothing in the small maul subskill >.>

Seems to be roughly 3x the skill gained in the parent skill compared to the child one, plus my account has 3 blasted affinities in small maul!

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... that it is not practically mandatory for new players to get/buy high-level weapons and armor before going out to fight almost anything now?

This thread needs more input from starting/newer players.

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