Posted July 4, 2011 To many posts to read them all, but I'd say 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6. The only reason I play and enjoy wurm is b/c freedom is not pvp. If there were only pvp choices I would leave. The last Medieval (sp) MMO I played, I left b/c they killed the pve aspects of the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2011 Most MMOs that have separate PvP and PvE servers have many more PvE servers. ... it is because most players don't enjoy PvP. It's more complicated than that. There is an old system (from pre-MMO days, it was about muds), that classifies players in 4 groups - Achievers, Socializers, Explorers and Killers. Those groups map very well into how people play wurm (unlike many themepark games, where it doesn't really work). I'm not going to describe the whole thing here but the (oversimplified) bottom line is while Achievers, Socializers and Explorers form either an equilibrium or positive feedback loops with each other, strengthening the community... Killers, once their numbers reach some threshold just drive all the other groups away. If you want to read more about it go here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Add another polling option: Perceived Barrier to Entry Too High +1 All I hear is about elite epic pre-nerf characters owning everything. Not experienced this but that's enough to make me never want to try Wild. have you ever laughed while an enemy has plowed into about 20 of your traps while searching the woods for you while you hide in your tunnel system? I have. And you know what? Its fun as hell! You don't have to be epic to do serious damage in PvP in wild. Especially if you train up archery. Plus I don't play wild for the PvP. Not at all. If I wanted to just play for the PvP I would always be at the front lines and hunting to build my FS. There *gasp* is more to wild than just the PvP aspect. I for one enjoy the feeling of not being confined by rules and regulations of the like that exist on Freedom server. If someone wants to fight over my spot they have my whole kingdom to tangle with. On a whole I've found that most ppl on wild are polite to each other as a result. Even if they can kill their neighbor, they never know when they will need that guy's help. Also, you can't be logged on forever. Eventually that guy will find a most amusing way to annoy you if you him off. (usually involving a catapult) If hes just a jerk you let your kingdom deal with him. MR doesn't normally let too many disputes get too out of hand especially if it has the potential to pit villages against each other. That and just the risk factor alone is enough for me. I for one like the feeling that I get when I'm out hunting deep in enemy territory. Will I make it back home alive? Will I get chased by a Knarr in my sailboat and manage to lose them in the fog? Every trip is a new adventure, not a tame safari in candy land. The risk factor on that server doesn't make it worse in my light, it actually makes it more vibrant, you live on the edge, evey step you take you think through because your not up against some stupid NPC your up against kingdoms of living, breathing thinking human beings. If Freedom was a true "Man vs Environment" with frequent hurricanes, earthquakes, rampaging bandits, trolls or an avenging host of demons to liven it up I may actually consider living there. I play games to have a unique challenge, and playing just to grind and live in the same house doing the same thing every day just doesn't appeal to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Let freedomers play freedom how they want to play, i dont think its working very well since most of the people trying to convince them are MR and they have a bad reputation as is. If a freedomer dares, he will try wild. If he gets bored, he will either go down three routes. A. Go back to freedom and stay there B. Go back and forth between wild and freedom periodically. C. Go to wild and find a kingdom that suits them and stay there. Yelling at them and flaming them over the forums is pointless, let them keep their opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Let freedomers play freedom how they want to play, i dont think its working very well since most of the people trying to convince them are MR and they have a bad reputation as is. If a freedomer dares, he will try wild. If he gets bored, he will either go down three routes. A. Go back to freedom and stay there B. Go back and forth between wild and freedom periodically. C. Go to wild and find a kingdom that suits them and stay there. Yelling at them and flaming them over the forums is pointless, let them keep their opinions. Heh, I try to stay out of flame wars. What I like here is the debate. I have been playing on wild and I enjoy myself there. If I can share what I enjoy and my own viewpoints so be it. Hopefully people can gain insight from them, and if they do go to the Wild server they won't make the same mistakes I did because they learned something in the debate. I'm against flaming people, and I do say that I hope people don't take my criticism as flaming. I do realize you have a right to dictate the terms of your own server, an I don't live there and don't have your viewpoints or even a concept of how to look at some situations from your shoes. I also know from experience that many things that happen on wild do affect freedom in ways many there dislike. I share my sympathies with you guys, but do remember this: Whether people on freedom like or dislike the fact they are part of a community that is made up of themselves and players on wild as well as the new players still learning the ropes. We shouldn't try to put up barriers to this effect. Whether it be debate or an active discussion we need to remember that. I would hate to see this game go the way of some where diffrent "factions" on the server come to hate and despise their fellow players, even if it isn't justified. Lables like MR, JK, and Froobs are just things, they don't actually speak for each individual player. I would hope you guys can see that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Let freedomers play freedom how they want to play, i dont think its working very well since most of the people trying to convince them are MR and they have a bad reputation as is. If a freedomer dares, he will try wild. If he gets bored, he will either go down three routes. A. Go back to freedom and stay there B. Go back and forth between wild and freedom periodically. C. Go to wild and find a kingdom that suits them and stay there. Yelling at them and flaming them over the forums is pointless, let them keep their opinions. Heh, I try to stay out of flame wars. What I like here is the debate. I have been playing on wild and I enjoy myself there. If I can share what I enjoy and my own viewpoints so be it. Hopefully people can gain insight from them, and if they do go to the Wild server they won't make the same mistakes I did because they learned something in the debate. I'm against flaming people, and I do say that I hope people don't take my criticism as flaming. I do realize you have a right to dictate the terms of your own server, an I don't live there and don't have your viewpoints or even a concept of how to look at some situations from your shoes. I also know from experience that many things that happen on wild do affect freedom in ways many there dislike. I share my sympathies with you guys, but do remember this: Whether people on freedom like or dislike the fact they are part of a community that is made up of themselves and players on wild as well as the new players still learning the ropes. We shouldn't try to put up barriers to this effect. Whether it be debate or an active discussion we need to remember that. I would hate to see this game go the way of some where diffrent "factions" on the server come to hate and despise their fellow players, even if it isn't justified. Lables like MR, JK, and Froobs are just things, they don't actually speak for each individual player. I would hope you guys can see that. I fit into category B, ive been on wild 3x longer than you battlepaw . But yeah seriously, let them choose for themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Let freedomers play freedom how they want to play, i dont think its working very well since most of the people trying to convince them are MR and they have a bad reputation as is. If a freedomer dares, he will try wild. If he gets bored, he will either go down three routes. A. Go back to freedom and stay there B. Go back and forth between wild and freedom periodically. C. Go to wild and find a kingdom that suits them and stay there. Yelling at them and flaming them over the forums is pointless, let them keep their opinions. Heh, I try to stay out of flame wars. What I like here is the debate. I have been playing on wild and I enjoy myself there. If I can share what I enjoy and my own viewpoints so be it. Hopefully people can gain insight from them, and if they do go to the Wild server they won't make the same mistakes I did because they learned something in the debate. I'm against flaming people, and I do say that I hope people don't take my criticism as flaming. I do realize you have a right to dictate the terms of your own server, an I don't live there and don't have your viewpoints or even a concept of how to look at some situations from your shoes. I also know from experience that many things that happen on wild do affect freedom in ways many there dislike. I share my sympathies with you guys, but do remember this: Whether people on freedom like or dislike the fact they are part of a community that is made up of themselves and players on wild as well as the new players still learning the ropes. We shouldn't try to put up barriers to this effect. Whether it be debate or an active discussion we need to remember that. I would hate to see this game go the way of some where diffrent "factions" on the server come to hate and despise their fellow players, even if it isn't justified. Lables like MR, JK, and Froobs are just things, they don't actually speak for each individual player. I would hope you guys can see that. I fit into category B, ive been on wild 3x longer than you battlepaw . But yeah seriously, let them choose for themselves. They can chose for themselves, what I would like is that they can hear from wild players, and many here have given their experiences and their explanations for their viewpoints. What the players take from this discussion is up to them. Wild has its own appeal but, its not for everyone and I do respect that fact. Don't think just because I like to share my experiences and tell people why I enjoy wild and my own viewpoints that I think everyone SHOULD be on wild. Because from what I've seen talking to people that isn't the case. There are many players that would be very unhappy on wild for many reasons, including some you have stated. I've been on wild for nearly a year now. I'm not the most experienced player but I have trained many new players and have made enough serious mistakes myself to try to teach people what I know and I'm not afraid to share my own viewpoints even if I haven't been playing since beta, or any of the other maps much less even a fraction of the time the current wild server has been up and running. I don't pretend that I'm as powerful as most of the elder players, because I'm not, and I make due somehow, and that is the situation of many playing out here now. We make due how we can with what we know. I just hope ya can see that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 I just read through 8 pages of.... oh my gawd.... Some history - I've been a Wild-er since Gold 1, the distant memories of unwalled deeds and suicide transport. . ahh fun times. During Gold 2 I started as a [Destroyer of Faith] and met some awesome people in all different kingdoms. I've been MR, BL, and now JK and can honestly say the community really makes the game for me. Wild has 3 faces..... As a BLer I've learned the social norms and the heritage they've kept throughout the years. I've learned how to be effective in a small kingdom with a close knit group. Just because we didn't have the best skills didn't mean we didn't have fun or enjoyed the game - Blacklighters are tough on their new people. They have to be. Constant nerfs and kingdoms being added in mid-map have crippled the BL to what I can effectively call ... almost non-existent. I've been with almost every single BL Emperor (Besides Iaqb) and have felt the ups and downs of the kingdom. I applaud the people who were resilient and are still Blacklight, they got pride and want their kingdom to succeed - Which makes their gaming experience special. (And made mine very special too) As a MR, I was apart of one of the games most notorious towns, Libilan Outlawz. I met some of my greatest friends during this time and still keep in touch with a few that don't even play anymore. With my ups and downs, I started to realize how to actually be effective on Wild and started to train with the best. I learned how to grind there and felt the thrill of PvP - which I have never felt in another game quite like this one. The times of LO are probably and will probably be one of my lasting memories of this map and of my experience on Wild. Now the reason I saved JK for last is because.... I recently converted from BL and wanted to try the different face of the game. I've fought against the JK for years. Since about.... oh say '06 ... And I have honest to god have not any "trashtalking" moments with them. I hold JK to a higher standard because of what they've managed to accomplish and continue to accomplish everyday. Now, when I first converted... people were almost shocked that I left - but instead of questioning my past they moved past it and help me everyday. From digging dirt for my deed to supplying 90 QL weapons, they have yet to disappoint (Which Im not saying the wont, Every kingdom has ups and downs). Instead of reading the Wild Server section, why don't you send a PM to one of the leaders of these kingdoms on the forum and see if you could join their village. Honest to god you will be surprised when you suddenly realize... Dang Wild isn't what I thought it was...... Any Freedom-er that wants to join JK are free to PM me and I will set you up with a house on my new safe-ish deed. I wont bite..... that hard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Probably because people on Wild say it's better, on Freedom there's no point, etc. I hate people who try to force their thinking on me. And if you say Freedom has no point, I raise you a 'it's a game, the point is to enjoy myself (not at the expense of others)'. I enjoy Freedom. Why leave just to go on a server where I am forced into playstyles I dislike? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2011 Some people simply have no interest in wild, despite being well equipped to handle it. It's not for everyone, but I do recommend anyone with a passing interest in it to check it out. There are good folks in all kingdoms, don't let the forums BS let you think otherwise. I came to Wild early 2008, and was unable to leave due to champing. After being dechamped, I'm still here - it's a part of me now, and as Mojo said a lot of what wilders stick around for is their community of friends. I tried spending time on Freedom but I simply can't wrap my head around it anymore, and I find it a far different place than the JK-H I was on many years ago. Freedom isn't for me, just as Wild isn't for some. Also, don't automatically assume Wild = forced pvp. PVP is entirely avoidable, crafters are just as appreciated as the fighters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 6, 2011 Its funny this thread proves wild players cant read! (looks at title) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 11, 2011 Ericbomb, whats your reason for not coming to wild? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 11, 2011 Ericbomb, whats your reason for not coming to wild? Heh, was thinking the same thing when I saw him in Freedom chat today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 11, 2011 Ericbomb, whats your reason for not coming to wild? Heh, was thinking the same thing when I saw him in Freedom chat today. Well, apparently its: "HOTS takes too much work and i have noob skills so instead of toughing it out im gonna go for ezmode in freedom." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 11, 2011 I think we just converted the preacher to our heathen ways. [table][tr][td]Freedom [/td][td]Wild [/td][/tr] [tr][td]1748[/td][td]604[/td][/tr] [tr][td]1749[/td][td]603[/td][/tr][/table] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 12, 2011 Personally I think this game is not suited to pvp, not yet - maybe not even ever. That's what makes Freedom so much fun. It's different than the other games out there. If the gamebase suddenly became PVP oriented it would become just another Darkfall or Mortal Online, where nobody or anything is safe and traders / crafters live with constant griefing. This game is the closest thing to that aging behemoth, Ultima Online (alright, it's not really -that- comparable, but it's still the closest I can find) that we have, and introducing pvp, even good pvp, to the masses would just introduce a mindset that, IMO, would ruin everything. If I want to do PVP I'll just go play one of the other thousand MMOs out there that cater just for that. Why is that all games seem to involve killing each other, anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 12, 2011 where nobody or anything is safe and traders / crafters live with constant griefing. Yeah.... that doesn't happen. If I want to do PVP I'll just go play one of the other thousand MMOs out there that cater just for that. Why is that all games seem to involve killing each other, anyway? Wurm has been PVP oriented since before Freedom/Home even existed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 12, 2011 Hi, I'm not interested in Wild at all. It's no PvP as I'd enjoy. PvP as I'd enjoy would mean: equal gear for allequal skills for allso, an equal play ground for all This way PvP would make sense, IMHO. Why should I bother entering PvP when the fat teenager at the other side of the road, living in Ma's basement, utilizing Pa's phat credit card, that would bash me over and over? Even when he's motion impaired and stupid like a fly? Just because he has bought an ava with superior skills and gear? This is no PvP. This is an Wurmian E-Peen comparison. No interest. Want PvP? Meet me in UT. What we have in Wurm as PvP isn't worth the word. Have fun! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 12, 2011 Wurm has been PVP oriented since before Freedom/Home even existed. But I don't think it is anymore, do you? Like the landscape, I would safely say Wurm has evolved into a non-pvp game. And craft griefing might not happen now, but that's probably because the wild pvp community is small, and crafters can harvest well away from the crowd. Introduce 1,000 people and all of a sudden your crafters will cry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 12, 2011 If I want to do PVP I'll just go play one of the other thousand MMOs out there that cater just for that. Why is that all games seem to involve killing each other, anyway? This is exactly my reasoning. If I wanted to PvP, I'd play any number of games that do it thousands of times better. Wurm however is the only game (that I've found) that lets you do things like terraform, build houses, plant trees/gardens, craft anything, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 12, 2011 Why is that all games seem to involve killing each other, anyway? Partly a lack of imagination or daring by developers and players. But I think a large part is that PvP is a built-in endgame, because players can always bash on each other - less content required from devs. One possible long-term problem with Freedom is that there is no end game. ATitD solves the end game in PvE with a flurry of construction projects and a reset of the server. I hope that Rolf doesn't ever take that approach. But as long as Rolf keeps focused on Wild and Epic the players on Freedom get to choose their endgame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 13, 2011 Why is that all games seem to involve killing each other, anyway? Partly a lack of imagination or daring by developers and players. But I think a large part is that PvP is a built-in endgame, because players can always bash on each other - less content required from devs. One possible long-term problem with Freedom is that there is no end game. ATitD solves the end game in PvE with a flurry of construction projects and a reset of the server. I hope that Rolf doesn't ever take that approach. But as long as Rolf keeps focused on Wild and Epic the players on Freedom get to choose their endgame. Also, as I pvp in WoW, pvp offers the most challenging game content. There's no AI yet that can match a human being as an opponant for thinking on its feet and being creative. While I don't like Wurm combat much, once you get tired of crafting and building, there's not much left but to pit yourself against another player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 13, 2011 I would like to join wild to see what it is like, but right now it just seems useless, BL being killed over and over, JK and MR ruling the map yet HoTs seems to be the most popular. Wurm isn't a PvP game because games that are PvP games (Wow, RS, etc) make it so whatever you do has something to do with PvP which makes you set on PvP. Wurm is open and free to do anything, no "kill 20 BLers to continue" just "craft, PvP, terraform, do anything you want" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 13, 2011 I would like to join wild to see what it is like, but right now it just seems useless, BL being killed over and over, JK and MR ruling the map yet HoTs seems to be the most popular. Wurm isn't a PvP game because games that are PvP games (Wow, RS, etc) make it so whatever you do has something to do with PvP which makes you set on PvP. Wurm is open and free to do anything, no "kill 20 BLers to continue" just "craft, PvP, terraform, do anything you want" I think BL seems to be the most popular because they are the most vocal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 13, 2011 Also, as I pvp in WoW, pvp offers the most challenging game content. There's no AI yet that can match a human being as an opponant for thinking on its feet and being creative. Very true, but players as a superior AI also works in other ways, not just combat. - It works with competition, in trading as an example (if Godoffal sells Xnoobx a toolbelt, then Willow doesn't get that sale). And the silly trader AI will buy spindles for prices that no player will ever touch. - It works with conflict, for example the various squabbles over land on Freedom. People want the best land and resources, and conflict without combat can still get ugly. - It also works with cooperation, groups of people undertaking large and time-consuming projects like the various cave-canals and roads. I think combat might be the easiest way to leverage player power, but it isn't the only way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
