Creature Cap is now 40k on Freedom

[Maximilus 0]

Simple solution then. Don't Hoard.

What I have suggested works for everyone but hoarders. And even then hoarders only hoard because they want a constant supply of meat. if they are always able to breed there is no need to hoard.

Easier said than done. The problem is that hoarders, most of them, do it not for the meat supply but because they can. Also because hoarding at it's present state is easy due to starvation and disease been kind of useless. If this 2 status had any meaning at all, they will be no hoarders because now instead of just caging 100+ with no care at all, they will have to work for it to maintain those herds.

I know this game is a sandbox and all, but having the right to have whatever animals you like without the proper care (grooming and daily feeding) is not the same as having the right to have them. People should still be able to have 100+ if, and only if, they care, groom and feed them, on the daily basics. Of course there is the occasional player, the weekend warrior, etc that will claim, "well I have the same right", well maybe you do, maybe you don't, because if you can't care for them, you shouldn't have them in the first place.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

Simple solution then. Don't Hoard.

What I have suggested works for everyone but hoarders. And even then hoarders only hoard because they want a constant supply of meat. if they are always able to breed there is no need to hoard.

Easier said than done. The problem is that hoarders, most of them, do it not for the meat supply but because they can. Also because hoarding at it's present state is easy due to starvation and disease been kind of useless. If this 2 status had any meaning at all, they will be no hoarders because now instead of just caging 100+ with no care at all, they will have to work for it to maintain those herds.

I know this game is a sandbox and all, but having the right to have whatever animals you like without the proper care (grooming and daily feeding) is not the same as having the right to have them. People should still be able to have 100+ if, and only if, they care, groom and feed them, on the daily basics. Of course there is the occasional player, the weekend warrior, etc that will claim, "well I have the same right", well maybe you do, maybe you don't, because if you can't care for them, you shouldn't have them in the first place.

[Roger Hellers 2]

True but in that case there no point spiting a good idea to help ensure there is a healthy cycle of spawns because a minority are hoarding which should be dealt with entirely differently.

I suppose I did make the mistake of writing my post from the aspect of someone who has a minimum herd, grooms them everyday to prevent disease and regularly culls/gives away.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

True but in that case there no point spiting a good idea to help ensure there is a healthy cycle of spawns because a minority are hoarding which should be dealt with entirely differently.

I suppose I did make the mistake of writing my post from the aspect of someone who has a minimum herd, grooms them everyday to prevent disease and regularly culls/gives away.

If you are referring to me as spiting your idea then I have to say I am not sure how you got that idea. I just wanted to point out issues / concerns with the idea.

Saying hoarders are a minority is likely to be true but it's the minority that effects the mayority alot more than the other way around.

I am writing my stuff out of the same perspective. I have a grande total of 8 animals which are groomed at least once a day and have plenty space available for feeding.

No, not at all I just meant from anyone who may be a hoarder in general who opposed the thought. It happens a lot here where some really good ideas are thrown out and are killed by counter examples rather than working an idea into a usable state.

[Evilvision 301]

What I would like to know is where are these hoarders? Anybody got deed names to attach to them or is this just mythical. Throw some names out there of these hoarder deeds as I would like to go see one. How many animals constitutes a hoarder?

[shihonoryu 0]

What I would like to know is where are these hoarders? Anybody got deed names to attach to them or is this just mythical. Throw some names out there of these hoarder deeds as I would like to go see one. How many animals constitutes a hoarder?

[Kadore 926]

What I would like to know is where are these hoarders? Anybody got deed names to attach to them or is this just mythical. Throw some names out there of these hoarder deeds as I would like to go see one. How many animals constitutes a hoarder?

I too would love to see some screenshots of these 100 -500 animals all on a 6 tile area.

[KyleBooze 451]

What I would like to know is where are these hoarders? Anybody got deed names to attach to them or is this just mythical. Throw some names out there of these hoarder deeds as I would like to go see one. How many animals constitutes a hoarder?

+1

never seen anyone at 100 animals

43x 31y, saw lots of penned animals there omw to FM a couple of days ago

[Wulfgar 1,114]

What I would like to know is where are these hoarders? Anybody got deed names to attach to them or is this just mythical. Throw some names out there of these hoarder deeds as I would like to go see one. How many animals constitutes a hoarder?

Hoarders are anyone that keep animals, they are just like other ethnic groups through human history that were easy to blame for problems, and they are persecuted just because they are easy targets. If there were some deed on Freedom that indeed had 500 animals, it would be visible from the Wild server, which would explain why I haven't seen it across my many travels across the Freedom server, because wilders that have never set foot on Freedom often speak of these deeds with 500-1000 horses. Of course they are a myth, try to read the fairytale written by Hans Christian Andersen about the chicken feather that turned into 5 hens.

Lets hope now that the "can't see beyond their own nosetip" hunters that expect 200 animals to kill when they set foot outside their house, will stop with the bashing and trolling and be satisfied for now since they got what they wanted, more animals to kill with no effort required.

[Aodhan 1]

Never seen these Massive Herds.  I have seen some heards with around 50 in them..thought those were pretty big.  

Halcyon, at times, has had 30-40 horses and 20-30 cattle, but then again, that was supporting an active village.  And when you have 3-4 people all doing Animal Husbandry grinding..all during the same active play time frame, the more animals the merrier!!

My issue right now is, I have 1 male venerable, and 2 female venerables.  I also have 1male and 2 female colts that were breed out just before the change.  Obviously, I have not been able to suscessfuly breed any of my females since the change, and what I'm wondering is..with all the activity in hunting all these Aggro's (My deed Templar is pretty busy) when will there ever be a time when Aggro's are not trying to get back up to the 20k(50%) mark with deed guards all over Freedom killing them as fast as they spawn??  Not to mention the critters killed by the hunters.

Is the 20k per type a hard number, seperate for each type, so when one dies of that type, another can then be born of only that type and not affect the other type?

??

[Mirabelle 14]

Right now we are at 37k animals total on Freedom. 15k of those are agro's, that means we have 22k non-agro's. So at a 50/50 ratio of 37k we need to kill around 3500 non-agro's (to get from 22k to 18,5k) before we can breed new non-agro's.

If the cap is maxed at 40k then a 50/50 ratio would be 20k agro's and 20k non-agro's. We still need to kill around 2000 non-agro's before we can breed new ones.

My theory is that the reason we are still at 37k and not at the max 40k, is because the amount of agro's are being killed off almost as fast as they can spawn. Almost, cause it is climbing slowly. Give it some time, the amount of agro's will climb from the 15k we have now to 20k. For comparison: before these changes were made the amount of agro's was at 7500. In the mean time if you go out hunting: kill off all deers, piggies, etc. as well as agro's. Don't skip them thinking they don't give much fight skill, so let's not bother with them. They give out great weaponskill .

Edit: whoohoo another agro increase, we are at 16k now!

[Wulfgar 1,114]

Easier said than done. The problem is that hoarders, most of them, do it not for the meat supply but because they can.

I guess you have such intimate knowledge about why hoarders hoard, because you are/were one yourself. You certainly do lots of other things "just because you can", and you wouldn't

have reached 70+ AH without hoarding.

Also because hoarding at it's present state is easy due to starvation and disease been kind of useless. If this 2 status had any meaning at all, they will be no hoarders because now instead of just caging 100+ with no care at all, they will have to work for it to maintain those herds.

I can guarantee you that animals dying from starvation within days, and without few days of grooming will never happen, because Rolf at least has enough common sense to not alienate more than half the playerbase. He won't go like this "Animals can survive for half a year on packed dirt without dying, lets go to another extreme and let them die after 3 days."

A good way to start would be to let them die after 1 month (from fat to starvation) for grazing animals. There should not be any requirement to groom your animals frequently if you provide enough space for them to stay on.

[Evilvision 301]

I think we would see a better picture if the graphs broke down the aggros and non aggros by type in the charts. I think when most people see the non aggro number they look at it and see the 22k or whatever it is now and all they picture in their mind is horses and cows. They forget that this number includes chickens,pigs,rooster,pheasant,deer,unicorns,dogs,boar,gorilla,horses,and cows.

Dont forget if you see a deed that has 50 animals on it the next question that should come to mind is how many villagers do they have. 50 animals may not even be a larger number if they have several villagers. Now I guess I shall log on and travel to 43x 31y and see whats there.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

Dont forget if you see a deed that has 50 animals on it the next question that should come to mind is how many villagers do they have. 50 animals may not even be a larger number if they have several villagers. Now I guess I shall log on and travel to 43x 31y and see whats there.

[Maximilus 0]

I guess you have such intimate knowledge about why hoarders hoard, because you are/were one yourself. You certainly do lots of other things "just because you can", and you wouldn't

have reached 70+ AH without hoarding.

Talking like you have inside knowledge of every action I have perform in this game. But let me enlighten you here. The reason why I got 70+(almost 80) AH it's not because I hoarded any animals, hell, I never had over 20 animals all together, ever. For more than year, I have groom my animals at least 3-4 times a day, every day without missing a beat. But you wouldn't know anything about that now, do you? I have played this game a lot longer than what you think I have, and I have always despise hoarders for one simple reason, because they can do it so easy with the fear of having half their herd die because they simple don't take care of them.

I can guarantee you that animals dying from starvation within days, and without few days of grooming will never happen, because Rolf at least has enough common sense to not alienate more than half the playerbase. He won't go like this "Animals can survive for half a year on packed dirt without dying, lets go to another extreme and let them die after 3 days."

A good way to start would be to let them die after 1 month (from fat to starvation) for grazing animals. There should not be any requirement to groom your animals frequently if you provide enough space for them to stay on.

Again, talking with such inside. Do you actually know that anyone can have 20 horses on a 5x5 pen for more than 4 months without feeding them and or grooming them at all? And not one would die on the time frame, even if they are starving and disease? No one has said that you have to groom a few animals with enough space frequently because on this case, the animals shouldn't get diseases at all even if you don't groom them in days, on the contrary, it's the ton of animals cramp in not enough space that should require daily grooming. But again, you wouldn't know anything about that either, do you? You are exaggerating or sincerely lack the knowledge of what have been posted so far.

If you have animals, you should be responsible for the care and feeding of those animals. That's the problem, there is no consequences to people that cramp a lot of animals in a small area, because at the current state, starvation and disease are meaningless.

What everyone, including myself, have posted do far about animals dyeing after 3 days of not been feed or been disease is not what they game should do, it's what needs to be done "right now" to eliminate all the massive amounts of non-agroos, that apparently now, no one know where the hell they are, to normalized the cap. It's not a permanent solution at all, even tho this 2 status do need to be look at because they are broken.

For all we know, there could be 500 dogs trapped on multiple semi flat spots on "dead pits" on top of a lot hills somewhere on the server that no one goes or can't get to because they simply can't walk back out if the slopes are more than 20 http://wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=53934.0, which is the same case for wolfs, bears, crocs, deer. And because starvation and disease is meaningless atm, they can stay there for months, which is why people have made the suggestions of killing all this animals if they are starving/disease in 3 days, dear friend.

[Evilvision 301]

Ok first stop found this place the deed is The Cat Lair.

I dont see this as too many animals but as you can tell they are neglected. But you can see several dead and a lot are no longer fat. I think a cpl are diseased also. What will happen as i have seen before is this herd will thin out a lot from starvation etc. There are so many they eat all the grass as soon as it spawns and die down until a number is reached that is self sustaining to the amount of tiles of grass that spawn in. Whoever lives here has logged on in the last few days as crops are ready to harvest in their fields.

Here is another Montehiedra.

Once again we see animals dead.

I think a good fix for this would be ondeed packed tiles never become unpacked thus allowing the system that is in place to work. Its not that the system isnt working its just 1 grass tile can sustain a few animals long enough until another pops up and we just see that as them living forever. I just cant see having animals die off after 3 days Max. While people like you or I might not have a life there are so many others that actually take 4 day weekend trips etc. Its not fair to slave them to the game or punish them for taking a vacation.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

I think a good fix for this would be ondeed packed tiles never become unpacked thus allowing the system that is in place to work. Its not that the system isnt working its just 1 grass tile can sustain a few animals long enough until another pops up and we just see that as them living forever. I just cant see having animals die off after 3 days Max. While people like you or I might not have a life there are so many others that actually take 4 day weekend trips etc. Its not fair to slave them to the game or punish them for taking a vacation.

Thats not a bad idea y'know. +1 to no autounpacking ondeed.

[Protunia 735]

If everyone killed off the BAD trait horses,cows,pigs etc... we will be able to breed again sooner than later.....

20k/20k is fair and its up to the breeders to bring the non aggro count down if they want to breed better horses.

Otherwise eventually they will die off until we reach 20k.

I have no bad trait horses right now and have about 12 total animals.

I see people with 30-60 horses, cows, pigs, deer, etc.. or more quite often

[Wulfgar 1,114]

MasterGeldrin, there are villages with 20-50 active villagers. There are also plenty of non-aggros running around in the wild, which I don't see anywhere in your calculations.

I am merely saying that people keep posting about hoarders and 500-1000 animals are getting ridiculous, its a witch hunt and propaganda, and it doesn't belong in any civilized

discussion. Since we are not having a civilized discussion in this thread, I am merely lowering my level to the rest of the lot, which is why I made assumptions about Maximilus based on a few posts, like he apparently can make assumptions about people he don't know, can point fingers at people with a different playstyle.

The fact is that some people that play Wurm doesn't want to go out hunting or fishing for meat or hides or animal parts, they want to take care of their own animals, that doesn't make them animal hoarders. It is a part of the game, and has been for at least as long as I have played. Changing that part so far into the game, making the game unplayable for any normal people that

goes on holidays, or are just casual players that only have time during weekends, it is plain ridiculous. I don't see anywhere on the website that Wurm requires daily interaction, its a game, not a job (even sometimes it feels like it).

I took a break from Wurm once myself, left 144 tiles with grass for around 20 animals, came back 3 months later, all animals were still alive, so yes, they can survive for many months without any care. I have also had animals that dropped dead within days because they were diseased and didn't have access to food, so yes, animals die from disease fairly quickly.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

MasterGeldrin, there are villages with 20-50 active villagers. There are also plenty of non-aggros running around in the wild, which I don't see anywhere in your calculations.

I am merely saying that people keep posting about hoarders and 500-1000 animals are getting ridiculous, its a witch hunt and propaganda, and it doesn't belong in any civilized

discussion. Since we are not having a civilized discussion in this thread, I am merely lowering my level to the rest of the lot, which is why I made assumptions about Maximilus based on a few posts, like he apparently can make assumptions about people he don't know, can point fingers at people with a different playstyle.

The fact is that some people that play Wurm doesn't want to go out hunting or fishing for meat or hides or animal parts, they want to take care of their own animals, that doesn't make them animal hoarders. It is a part of the game, and has been for at least as long as I have played. Changing that part so far into the game, making the game unplayable for any normal people that

goes on holidays, or are just casual players that only have time during weekends, it is plain ridiculous. I don't see anywhere on the website that Wurm requires daily interaction, its a game, not a job (even sometimes it feels like it).

I took a break from Wurm once myself, left 144 tiles with grass for around 20 animals, came back 3 months later, all animals were still alive, so yes, they can survive for many months without any care. I have also had animals that dropped dead within days because they were diseased and didn't have access to food, so yes, animals die from disease fairly quickly.

[Tamorlane 381]

I suspect he meant "in the wild" and not "on Wild".  At least that is how it appeared.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

I suspect he meant "in the wild" and not "on Wild".  At least that is how it appeared.

[Wulfgar 1,114]

"There are also plenty of non-aggros running around in the wild," Again... this is Freedom. Not wild. It might be different over on Wild lands, but bringing over unuseful information like that only muddies the waters over here. Unless you are implying that Wild and Freedom share the same population caps.. which if so is severely a mistake..

[Dannyiron 6]

Went hunting for the first time in ages, and was pleasantly surprised!

With earlier hunting of mine, and a later hand from Borderland, individually, and with his help, I came across/killed 58 creatures, all within ~10 minutes of my home. In descending numerical order:

17x young black wolf

12x young brown bear

6x young troll

5x young scorpion

4x young huge spider

4x young diseased troll

3x young fierce lava spider

1x young large rat

1x young angry black wolf

1x young alert black wolf

1x young goblin

1x young greenish brown bear

1x adolescent huge spider

1x aged goblin

this with a total of 1.104942 fightskill gain to 47.309. Awesome :-)

[Evilvision 301]

Well apparently my trip looking for the elusive hoarder is come to a abrupt halt do to the fact upon disembarking my horse to lead it up a hill it fell over dead. Apparently next patch  doesnt matter its already in the game and apparently the only check it does is on or off deed and riding. Poor choice those being the only checks as my horse was groomed,fed and will take a lot of breeding to replace. Whats the point if you can never take your horse off deed.