Possible alternative to permadeath?

[Farmerbob 369]

  I had an oddball idea about how to deal with permadeath for Champs - Ghosts.

  On the last death, make champions become spirit beings, like spirit guards, but unable to directly affect living beings.

  They lose all crafting skills, but keep their stats, fighting skills, and religion skills.  They have permanently full food and water, and can cross all terrain including water at normal unencumbered movement speed.  Their equipment still exists and offers protection just as it did in life, but never takes damage.  Arrows or thrown items that were carried are never actually used up, though they might disappear for a while before they return.

  The only things these characters would be able to attack would be each other, and spirit guards.  The only thing they could to to living players would be spy on them.

  Living players would be able to see them (though it shouldn't be terribly easy to do so), and living priests could attempt to exorcise them, which would be difficult, but if successful would kill the phantasm.

  Combat dynamics between ghosts and spirit guards, and between ghosts and others like them would be just like if they were alive.  Ghosts could even help players fight spirit guards and give gank bonus.

  Ghosts could lose skill, and would regain it as normal.

  Since there will certainly eventually be champions that die their last death with missing equipment, all the different religious orders should be able to link over an altar and by spending a few hundred favor, send equipment to the spirit world for a champion of their religion to equip.

  I think this would be a graceful way for Rolf to end permadeath for champs.  It would allow for continued PVP activity, but take champs out of the world of living players, and into their own little PVP universe which still interacts strongly but indirectly with player conflict.

 

[Farmerbob 369]

  Wow, I'm suprised that this wasn't even flamed

  No comments at all?

[ZaZ213 21]

Its interesting to say the least...not sure how i feel about it though, maybe if the ghosts were not able to enter the god domain of other gods that would be useful and prevent easy spying.

[Farmerbob 369]

Its interesting to say the least...not sure how i feel about it though, maybe if the ghosts were not able to enter the god domain of other gods that would be useful and prevent easy spying.

Yes, the spying ability might need some sort of restrictions, but spirit guards could engage ghosts directly, and priests can exorcise to banish them.  At least in the idea above.  So, spying inside a deed would still be really difficult, though less difficult than for a living player.  Sure a ghost can run over the walls, but the guards will slow them down, and the player priests will try to banish them.

It would also create a more common use for exorcism, and a reason to get it to high skill.

[ZaZ213 21]

Would need to be a quick cast at medium difficulty to make it difficult but short enough to catch them running, would also need to be castable over walls, or AoE from the priest casting. Walls blessed by an opposing god would block movement over them, would create an additional use for bless. Item's blessed by an opposing god would slow movement like blessing lamps etc within a few tiles of the object, making them easier to catch.

[Farmerbob 369]

Would need to be a quick cast at medium difficulty to make it difficult but short enough to catch them running, would also need to be castable over walls, or AoE from the priest casting. Walls blessed by an opposing god would block movement over them, would create an additional use for bless. Item's blessed by an opposing god would slow movement like blessing lamps etc within a few tiles of the object, making them easier to catch.

Good ideas.  Making bless a useful spell would be good too

[Brigander 22]

Not sure if I care for the PvP aspect to this but i like the idea of not making "permadeath" accounts totally unusable.

And I think a fair idea is to make the world kinda fuzzy unless you're walking in the domain of your god where details become clear again and worse in domains of other gods i.e. you see what your god sees and the other gods hinder you further. Doing that would still make it possible to spy but have religions and domains play a good role in the afterlife.

[Farmerbob 369]

Not sure if I care for the PvP aspect to this but i like the idea of not making "permadeath" accounts totally unusable.

And I think a fair idea is to make the world kinda fuzzy unless you're walking in the domain of your god where details become clear again and worse in domains of other gods i.e. you see what your god sees and the other gods hinder you further. Doing that would still make it possible to spy but have religions and domains play a good role in the afterlife.

I like it - and lord knows we already have the fog to implement it.  Stronger altars create denser fog 

[Protunia 735]

I like the part about champs being able to fight each other only after death.

I don't know about the killing of spirit guards or spying,

[Robotnik 0]

Once permadeath the remaining premium should go to a new account if they are starting another one again or have alts.

[MasterGeldrin 0]

Once permadeath the remaining premium should go to a new account if they are starting another one again or have alts.

This is one thing which irks me at the moment for champions. Sure they get to be almighty for a duration, but being told your remaining upkeep and premium time on that charcater is forfeit due to permadeath is a kick in the teeth.

This "Ghost" after effect would be useful to atleast make use of that paid for time, and it could even be applied to Epic if there is a use for it.

[Othob Rithol 700]

Just reset the account's stats & skills & rank, remove all the affinities & titles, let them keep their bank & non-drops and then respawn them at their light with a new title [Reincarnated]. Basically a noob account with the premium and wealth of the old account. Maybe prevent them from ever being a champion/priest again.

[Alyeska 2,621]

Just reset the account's stats & skills & rank, remove all the affinities & titles, let them keep their bank & non-drops and then respawn them at their light with a new title [Reincarnated]. Basically a noob account with the premium and wealth of the old account. Maybe prevent them from ever being a champion/priest again.

This actually sound rather good....

[Robotnik 0]

Or refund back what's left of premium at permadeath.

To pay for something you can't even use or has been effectively reset and has limitations on it is a huge kick in the teeth.

[Buttercup 0]

I think a lot of people see the risk of permadeath a fair trade off for champions.

They see champions as over-powered, but the fact that they can have perma-death and risk loosing everything is a trade off and makes it fairer. But I dunno, Wild isn't really my thing, but I like where this thread is headin' Continue please

[Farmerbob 369]

Just reset the account's stats & skills & rank, remove all the affinities & titles, let them keep their bank & non-drops and then respawn them at their light with a new title [Reincarnated]. Basically a noob account with the premium and wealth of the old account. Maybe prevent them from ever being a champion/priest again.

Ghosts are undead, so if Rolf made last life champs turn into ghosts on their final death, they would still be permadead  ;D

He can still claim Wurm has permadeath then, lol.

[FlakAttack 21]

Awesome, it sounds so much like taking only the best warriors (in this case, followers of a god) and sending them to Valhalla.

Though Othob's idea for a reset isn't terrible either. I wouldn't go so far as to not allow them to priest/champ again though.

[Alyeska 2,621]

Just reset the account's stats & skills & rank, remove all the affinities & titles, let them keep their bank & non-drops and then respawn them at their light with a new title [Reincarnated]. Basically a noob account with the premium and wealth of the old account. Maybe prevent them from ever being a champion/priest again.

Ghosts are undead, so if Rolf made last life champs turn into ghosts on their final death, they would still be permadead  ;D

He can still claim Wurm has permadeath then, lol.

the biggest prblem of ghosts to me is what you mentioned yourself, easy spying. It shouldnt be like that, I think.

[jaan 1]

How about infinite lives, but make them unable to respawn for maybe 2 or 3 months after a death, perhaps forgive the first death. In a game everything should be able to be remade/regained.

However still I'd prefer removing them altogether. The way I see it, they're not fun to fight against for non-champs and stressful to play as champs for the risk involved.

[Farlin 0]

I like the idea, but also do not like the idea of making an unplayable account.

One option is to keep champions, but they should be limited in number, require some insane tasks to become one, and have some more restrictions imposed upon them versus a "permanent death you can never play it again too bad" system (i.e. something like the ghost system in this thread or have them respawn on the 3rd death as a "drained" character with 50% loss to skills and no longer able to become a champion).

Or eliminate them entirely and modify some elements of priests to make them a more viable player class (not saying they are not now, but few play them as a main due to restrictions). Personally, I would go champion, but I'm also thinking that if I do so and end up dying for whatever reason I'll be sorely disappointed in losing the ability to play my character. So I would more than likely not go out and fight with risk of making an unplayable account that I spent months, or years working on his skills and now suddenly he's a dead character rotting in some coffin somewhere because I wanted to PvP and lost for whatever reason. Just seems there is a point where over saturation of champions will occur (or has occurred) and ultimately PvP will slowly die. Not to mention that if I die due to a bug or server issue and get a free life back I have a stigma to live with because people will or will not agree about it.

The champion system just seems to stir up so many issues and arguments that it should be glaringly obvious what has to be done.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

I remember discussing a suggestion about having dead champs leave ghost NPC's around, protecting the main altars in the name of their respective god (basically "unique" spirit guards). This is even better however.

The ideas about letting them keep their fighting, religion skills as well as some equipment sounds good. The spying issue is obviously a problem. A good solution may be to prevent champ ghosts from entering the domain of an opposing guard as well as the enemy kingdom. As a trade-off for this, allow champs to attack all enemies without restrictions(animals included) within the domain of their own god - This would give ghost characters a purely defensive role, essentially turning the spirits of deceased champions into eternal defenders of their god's domains.

In order to make them able to traverse the land to protect any and all of their god's domains, altars (above a certain QL) would act as their spawnpoints and they could suicide travel without penalties to guard these- Again, while being unable to enter enemy land or attack anything outside their confined domains.

[Farlin 0]

I remember discussing a suggestion about having dead champs leave ghost NPC's around, protecting the main altars in the name of their respective god (basically "unique" spirit guards). This is even better however.

The ideas about letting them keep their fighting, religion skills as well as some equipment sounds good. The spying issue is obviously a problem. A good solution may be to prevent champ ghosts from entering the domain of an opposing guard as well as the enemy kingdom. As a trade-off for this, allow champs to attack all enemies without restrictions(animals included) within the domain of their own god - This would give ghost characters a purely defensive role, essentially turning the spirits of deceased champions into eternal defenders of their god's domains.

In order to make them able to traverse the land to protect any and all of their god's domains, altars (above a certain QL) would act as their spawnpoints and they could suicide travel without penalties to guard these- Again, while being unable to enter enemy land or attack anything outside their confined domains.

+1 -- now this is a mechanic that I like.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

"Opposing guard"? I mean opposing God ofcourse

[Guest terrorist]

they should be sent to a no-pvp state for x time (month or 2, can not attack or be attacked) after each death- 1st death not counted- in which time they can only skill up skills of the gods choice and are unable enchant for this time and have a 5-10%(not sure how fair this would be) skill loss in the all skills that the god doesnt support and a 0-5% (random chance) skill loss in all other skills, not including body or religion. can not leave the domain of their chosen god/kingdom.

if they refuse to go to a non-pvp state they get a 25% skill reduction in all skills and are unable to follow the god they were previously champ of and all religeon skills get set to 0 and can not be incresed for 1 week and are unable to pvp for 1 week

just a rough idea, not sure on the percentages though as it could be a bit unfair, instead of percentages have a set skill loss-1.0-10.0 depending on how high the skill is because 10.0 skill loss at 90 plate smithing is a bit harsh so 1.0 would be more fair, 10.0 if skill is under 60, 7.5 at 60, 2.5 at 70, 2 at 80, 1 at 90, really not sure about it because it can take days/weeks to get skillgain in some skills at higher skill

[Muffin 0]

Just reset the account's stats & skills & rank, remove all the affinities & titles, let them keep their bank & non-drops and then respawn them at their light with a new title [Reincarnated]. Basically a noob account with the premium and wealth of the old account. Maybe prevent them from ever being a champion/priest again.

Good idea but I cant see it ever happening because the alternative is to pay for a new account and pay for new items