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Kole

Freedom griefing

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That topic ran it's course? really?  less than 24hrs old. Anyway....

I just read it for the first time and have a few things to say, so...

The police fill out the report and say, i'm sorry.. there's nothing we can do about the burglar stealing everything out of your home.. you see.. you should have locked your door.  Nor can we do anything about them tearing up your yard... you should have a fence and locked gate to keep them out.  Please stop blaming the victims for the faults of the criminals. This really  me off.. and that's about all i have to say..  

Have at it

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That topic ran it's course? really?  less than 24hrs old. Anyway....

I just read it for the first time and have a few things to say, so... there...

The police fill out the report and say, i'm sorry.. there's nothing we can do about the burglar stealing everything out of your home.. you see.. you should have locked your door.  Nor can we do anything about them tearing up your yard... you should have a fence and locked gate to keep them out.  Please stop blaming the victims for the faults of the criminals. This really  me off.. and that's about all i have to say.. 

Have at it

Don't try to compare real life with wurm. You'll notice the logical holes add up quite rapidly.

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the topic was stopped because while YOU may not have read it, those involved were degrading it down to the point it was going to flame out rather soon and tempers would start flaring. there are many existing topics on the subject that you are free to comment in

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even though I did not think of the consequences beforehand, I pretty much know them now, and I'm comfortable facing them.

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even though I did not think of the consequences beforehand, I pretty much know them now, and I'm comfortable facing them.

I fail to see how someone doing this, and with all the evidence there is in the concerned griefing case, is still allowed to play on Freedom.

Kick him to Wild or ban the account. Anything else is ridiculous.

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Its not so much of having proof because in my situation the proof is there. Its the fact the GMs are bound to the currents rules.

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even though I did not think of the consequences beforehand, I pretty much know them now, and I'm comfortable facing them.

I fail to see how someone doing this, and with all the evidence there is in the concerned griefing case, is still allowed to play on Freedom.

Kick him to Wild or ban the account. Anything else is ridiculous.

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I am really sick of clear cases of griefing, when there is nothing done about them. And I am really sick of seeing uncomfortable threads being locked arrogantly.

Rolf should really make clear decision if he wish to support griefers or good people on Freedom. There is point when it is not possible to keep both paying for the game.

I know there are still changes and rules updates, but they are applied very slowly and many good players might quit before.

Locked or not, if a player causes grief to another player knowingly, there should be a punishment - Wild exile.

KOS is not good enough as it is actually the only defence agains griefers and it is also used by some of them as well.

Currently, Freedom is a paradise for griefers.

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Its not so much of having proof because in my situation the proof is there. Its the fact the GMs are bound to the currents rules.

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When managing a deeds roles, what is the purpose of the settings at the end for attack citizens/attack non-citizens?

I was a bit slack with placing locks, mainly because I had casually believed that people couldn't just come on and kill my animals (I was aware that they could technically steal them).

(I seem to remember if you take it off guards, you get a warning that they can't defend the deed against hostile animals etc)

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I would just like to say wild exile seems like a great response to this. They admit to doing it!!!

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Per the issue with the fence not being locked on the other thread, why not add a second option on the deed permissions to be pass gates , we have pass locked gates right now , but also add an option that you cannot pass gates period.

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You know that your insurance company won't pay you if they find out you left your doors open to the burglar?

Most of the griefing incidents lately has been a direct result of negligence or ignorance on the victim's part. Lock your gates, build on your deed and our current rule set cover 99.9% of all thinkable cases of "griefing". The GMs can't babysit players, at some point every players needs to take responsibility for their own security.

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About 10 of these topics appear every week and nothing happens and a few people quit each time.

This is getting nowhere.

A month ago we had 955 players, today we have 914.

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About 10 of these topics appear every week and nothing happens and a few people quit each time.

This is getting nowhere.

A month ago we had 955 players, today we have 914.

The moral of the story is lock up your stuff.

The end.

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What if the griefer has lockpicks?  can they pick gate locks on deed?

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You know that your insurance company won't pay you if they find out you left your doors open to the burglar?

Most of the griefing incidents lately has been a direct result of negligence or ignorance on the victim's part. Lock your gates, build on your deed and our current rule set cover 99.9% of all thinkable cases of "griefing". The GMs can't babysit players, at some point every players needs to take responsibility for their own security.

^ This

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To the people who keep saying "Lock your stuff", the problem is that it is currently possible to kill animals and lead them off-deed with all the restrictions set up. So are you saying that they should erect walls around their whole deed, complete with gatehouses (also locked) simply to keep out the occasional vandal?

I think the real crux of the problem here is this: Is Freedom a place for people to enjoy each other without infringing on others' enjoyment of the game (Re: stealing their stuff, killing their animals, ie "griefing"), or is it a free-for-all a la Wild without PvP?

So, which is it?

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No, the real "crux" is that people don't understand that animals belong inside pens with locked fence gates on a deed. The people that quit over these incidents are the people who are unwilling to accept this. Once this group of players has been reduced enough (through conformance or otherwise) the misinformation regarding these rules will hopefully be eradicated from the community.

I'd too love a Freedom where we can all live as careless hippies without a worry in the world but since I have a remotely realistic perception of the world I can see that this will never be the reality unless we had a GM following each player around.

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I am interested in knowing how all this turned out. A few weeks ago, someone came onto my deed, lead two of our animals, hitched them to a large cart full of our stuff, and rode off with it. I've looked through all the patch notes, rules, threads... I haven't seen anything about people being able to lead animals or drive large carts right off deed until just recently, when a few griefers managed to figure it out. I didn't even know you could lock large carts again, didn't see it in the patch notes and I read them all the way back to the one that says you can no longer lock them :-\

The funny part is, I know who did it. I found all my stuff on his deed. But clearly he understands the theft mechanics better than I do because it's all locked up tight.

I am one of the first people to say "deed it or lose it". But losing stuff to what has just recently been acknowledged as a bug? Not impressed. Unfortunately, GM team doesn't look like it's going to take action so I will have to find a way to get my stuff back. Should be fun. God forbid I find an exploit ::)

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Griefing is still griefing. Using an accepted "General Rule" as a scape goat for not dealing with griefers is not acceptable. If those griefers want to go slaughter penned animals they should be on Wild, not Freedom.

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To the people who keep saying "Lock your stuff", the problem is that it is currently possible to kill animals and lead them off-deed with all the restrictions set up. So are you saying that they should erect walls around their whole deed, complete with gatehouses (also locked) simply to keep out the occasional vandal?

I think the real crux of the problem here is this: Is Freedom a place for people to enjoy each other without infringing on others' enjoyment of the game (Re: stealing their stuff, killing their animals, ie "griefing"), or is it a free-for-all a la Wild without PvP?

So, which is it?

No, we're saying lock your gate and move on, it's really not that hard.

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To the people who keep saying "Lock your stuff", the problem is that it is currently possible to kill animals and lead them off-deed with all the restrictions set up. So are you saying that they should erect walls around their whole deed, complete with gatehouses (also locked) simply to keep out the occasional vandal?

I think the real crux of the problem here is this: Is Freedom a place for people to enjoy each other without infringing on others' enjoyment of the game (Re: stealing their stuff, killing their animals, ie "griefing"), or is it a free-for-all a la Wild without PvP?

So, which is it?

lock picking on deed is disabled and so is fence or house bashing. That is a main difference between wild and freedom.

Killing and stealing horses on deed should be disabled as well but at least the leading part is pretty difficult right now because trespassers might lose their horses when they disembark the horse on deed for whatever reason. Also killing might be ok if it's a roaming spider or a troll or any other aggro.

It's possible to secure animals on deed in a way that's never possible on wild so there is a very different game play here even if animals on deed can be killed or lead away.

However the slaughtering of a whole herd is still wrong in my eyes regardless if they were properly secured or not.

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Clearly a solution for leading animals on deed needs to be found. Possibly a new game mechanic needs to be introduced that allows the server to differentiate between an animal you just disembarked off on someone else's deed and the deed owner's drag animals that he mindlessly left outside.

My personal (temporary?) solution was a "cart garage" consisting of a combined cart dump/animal pen.

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No, the real "crux" is that people don't understand that animals belong inside pens with locked fence gates on a deed. The people that quit over these incidents are the people who are unwilling to accept this.

I agree in part, but I think the griefers will continue to prey on the uninformed, the new players, and the foolish ones.  It doesn't make Wurm a better place.  Until everything that people remotely care about in Wurm is on a deed or otherwise protected by rules, the griefers will pick away at what people value. 

It's what they do, and there will always be their fan clubs arguing that this is ok.  Not everyone who says "don't be a moron, lock your stuff up already!" is a griefer fan-boy.  Some are.  I think one can tell by the posts.

And Freedomites:  stop being foolish and lock your stuff up already.  Check your neighbor's fences and alert him or her if something is amiss.

(And Flak has a point - someone I know took items from my cart after I pulled it onto my deed - and I have no idea how it happened.  The coded rules are opaque and there appear to be ways to steal.  I have no faith that the code totally prevents it.)

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