Scammer

[Frivolous 9]

Debo

Watch out for him, especially if you're a returning player. He will try to scam you before you can figure out the current economy and then when he doesn't get his way, claim that you scammed him!

 

[Tor 590]

Can i ask how exactly he tried to scam you?

[Frivolous 9]

29 minutes ago, Tor said:

Can i ask how exactly he tried to scam you?

Absolutely. He sent extreme lowball offers for items in an attempt to take advantage of a returning player. Though he isn't the first to do that to me, and probably won't be the last either. I did end up letting it go but then he went around claiming I scammed him, hence the post. I'm a lot more aware of the economy and the value of items now due to players reaching out and helping me in that regard so it definitely won't be an issue going further.

For any other returning players, be sure to be extra careful and get multiple opinions when selling your old items!

[gnomegates 1500]

I'd be interested to know what the items were and the offers, Server it was on, just some more general information. Calling out someone in public like this, in a game where your reputation is all you really have, is a very serious thing to do and the more information that can be provided when doing so the better. 

 

 Lowball offers by themselves are not scams, as scamming typically involves some kind of fraud or deception, which could be the case if he was trying to talk down the item and the such. I know I try to offer fair value for items and even will tell someone that they may get a higher offer if they are patient and wait for someone more interested in the item, at that point it is up to the seller to decide what they wish to do.

 

Him going around trying to say you were scamming him is a separate issue in my mind, one that should involve reporting if it goes to the level of harassment, after all, your reputation is yours to make or break. Making a post like this is putting your own reputation out there as well.

 

 Your other points of caution to new and returning players is always a good thing. 

 

Happy Wurming!

[tgod 473]

Scam?  Quite the opposite.  The ring you were selling appeared to be blank.  I received the ring and the affinity was clubs.  I then sent the ring back to you for the same price you sent it to me.  You then dodged my in game and forum messages, ultimately blocking me.  I had my friend ask you about it who you then blocked.  All I was asking for was a refund.  How is that scamming?  

[Tor 590]

Someone offering you a price you don't like it's not scam. Yours or someone elses opinion on price for item is not a rule, anyone can set their own prices when either buying or selling

[Tristanc 668]

Perhaps there are two seperate issues that are being confused  here.

A scam is, for example, presenting a false offer that will result in the scammer violating agreed-to terms or failing to make the agreed-up payment.

 

That's a different issue than a claim that someone's taking advantage of brand new players / returning players who might not be familiar with the market as it is and/or potential values of items in that market place so convince them to sell/buy at prices which don't reflect the actual values by a very large margin.

 

[LorenaMontana 3040]

I was here lol, couldn't buy sleep powders from this guy coz of this lol

[Angelklaine 4380]

Not wanting to throw dirt on anyone, but as a (arguably :P) respectable old trader, I can say I have had my share of unhappy customers who try to ruin your reputation with posts like this, enough to be able to note the warning signs. Not giving specifics and speaking in general terms when describing the transaction is the biggest one. Just because you are not happy with the transaction does not mean you got scammed. Sending someone an item that is not as described and then refusing to accept return of the item is a good example of a scam. Not knowing the economy upon returning and underselling an item is a personal problem, not a scam.

Tgod, if that's the person involved, might be a rather difficult person to deal with but he is no scammer. I have had many many many deals with him and all of them have gone smoothly. We might not see eye to eye on a lot of things, but he has never scammed anyone to my knowledge, and is petty responsive on the forums. Tgod has been around for what seems like forever. I am pretty sure most people here would demand a little more of an explanation than "he scammed me".

[chewius 38]

Due diligence, buyer be ware (or seller) Do your homework, research (plus NFI/SFI cost differences) Any offer made probably favors the person making it so negotiate accordingly. But most people are fare and there are standard rates such as 1s per 1k items or actions (SFI) 

[Kinganon 219]

At some point we need to start taking serious action against people acting like @Frivolous, making bold accusations that actively harm the reputation of other players, while not even providing a shed of evidence of any wrongdoing.

 

Why not start demanding evidence in cases like this? If there is none, why not start handing out 3 month to permanent forum suspensions, depending on severity?

 

As things stand right now, and having had to experience it myself first hand, it seems anyone is allowed to say anything about anyone without there being any consequences, even if they're blatantly lying.

 

Posts like this make my blood boil.

Edited September 3 by Kinganon

[Emi 261]

Debo/Tgod is a honest trader, and liked by many who have done business with him in the past. You can literally look him up to see that.

 

Please don't make posts like this again OP; with 14 posts talking heresy against a long term player its ridiculous. Also extremely petty to try to ruin someone's reputation over a trade.

[chewius 38]

Why does it STILL say the  update failed? its 11pm at night wtf?

[Angelklaine 4380]

15 hours ago, Kinganon said:

Why not start demanding evidence in cases like this? If there is none, why not start handing out 3 month to permanent forum suspensions, depending on severity?

Because people should always be allowed to speak their mind no matter what they say. It promotes discussion and shows different points of view. The moment staff starts (one can arguably say continue) to censor posts based on feelings or subjective views it's the moment people would be afraid of posting at all. Besides, we have no proof that it's slander either. We are just basing our judgement on experience. 

 

It's working as intended anyways. Tgod earned his reputation with trust and time and the community is seeing right through the accusation. Nothing needs to be changed.

[Locath 560]

16 hours ago, Kinganon said:

Why not start demanding evidence in cases like this? If there is none, why not start handing out 3 month to permanent forum suspensions, depending on severity?

 

Kinganon wears velcro shoes and waves back at Teletubbies (i have no proof but trust me).

 

(I can't believe i'm actually typing this but just in case: This is a joke )

[Kinganon 219]

5 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Because people should always be allowed to speak their mind no matter what they say. It promotes discussion and shows different points of view. The moment staff starts (one can arguably say continue) to censor posts based on feelings or subjective views it's the moment people would be afraid of posting at all. Besides, we have no proof that it's slander either. We are just basing our judgement on experience. 

 

It's working as intended anyways. Tgod earned his reputation with trust and time and the community is seeing right through the accusation. Nothing needs to be changed.

So then you wouldn't mind if someone entered your workplace tomorrow and started calling you a scammer, or worse, leading to you losing your job and reputation. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, as long as they got to "speak their mind"?

 

Quote

Besides, we have no proof that it's slander either. We are just basing our judgement on experience. 

Sure we do. OP hasn't given any additional information to support their very serious accusations. I think that's pretty ###### up.

 

Want more evidence?

 

 

Quote

It's working as intended anyways. Tgod earned his reputation with trust and time and the community is seeing right through the accusation. Nothing needs to be changed.

You don't get it. It's not like 100% of people that see this headline is going to read into it to figure out if what's being said is true or not. A non-zero percentage of people are going to read the headline and the post and from that make up their mind about the player in question. It's a no-brainer to me why this kind of behavior should be bannable, or at the very least lead to temporary measures being taken.

Edited September 4 by Kinganon

[Angelklaine 4380]

7 minutes ago, Kinganon said:

So then you wouldn't mind if someone entered your workplace tomorrow and started calling you a scammer, or worse, leading to you losing your job and reputation. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, as long as they got to "speak their mind"?

A forum on the Internet is not the same as the private confines of your workspace. It is also not libel if we want to get technical. Keep in mind none of those things are possible by simply posting in these forums. You are just taking a giant leap to prove a point (??). I reject your analogy, good sir. It's not a realistic one.

Edited September 4 by Angelklaine

[Kinganon 219]

14 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

A forum on the Internet is not the same as the private confines of your workspace. It is also not libel if we want to get technical. Keep in mind none of those things are possible by simply posting in these forums. You are just taking a giant leap to prove a point (??). I reject your analogy, good sir. It's not a realistic one.

That a video game is not as serious and high-stakes as real-life is not the point of my analogy. The point is to highlight what a bad position it is.

 

If you wouldn't tolerate such behavior in real life, why would you tolerate it here?

Edited September 4 by Kinganon

[Angelklaine 4380]

1 minute ago, Kinganon said:

That a video game is not as serious and high-stakes as real-life is not the point of my analogy. The point is to highlight what a bad position it is.

 

If you wouldn't tolerate such behavior in real life, why would you tolerate it here? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

I actually would and do tolerate it in real life. But that is not the point. We shouldn't demand censorship of someone just because we have a different point of view. I get called all kinds of lies on my personal life and although I don't have to like it I don't go about requesting laws be made to censor or arrest that person. That would be the real life equivalent of what you are asking for here. But regardless I rather have everyone say what they want and feel like saying than everyone being too scared of posting at all because you risk getting banned. 

 

I am not saying this out of a whim. I have been here long enough and active enough to have lived through the "staff bashing" bans and warning waves for the silliest of things, or getting banned for a few days for saying something that could arguably offend someone. I don't want those days back. You don't want those days back. No one wants those days back. Currently we are blessed with wise staffers who are prudent enough to respect their community. I would like this to continue.

[Kinganon 219]

5 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I actually would and do tolerate it in real life. But that is not the point. We shouldn't demand censorship of someone just because we have a different point of view. I get called all kinds of lies on my personal life and although I don't have to like it I don't go about requesting laws be made to censor or arrest that person. That would be the real life equivalent of what you are asking for here. But regardless I rather have everyone say what they want and feel like saying than everyone being too scared of posting at all because you risk getting banned. 

 

I am not saying this out of a whim. I have been here long enough and active enough to have lived through the "staff bashing" bans and warning waves for the silliest of things, or getting banned for a few days for saying something that could arguably offend someone. I don't want those days back. You don't want those days back. No one wants those days back. Currently we are blessed with wise staffers who are prudent enough to respect their community. I would like this to continue.

Since when did I advocate for sensoring different points of view? What are you talking about?

 

Calling someone a scammer if they're not a scammer is not a point of view.

[garforl 208]

16 minutes ago, Kinganon said:

That a video game is not as serious and high-stakes as real-life is not the point of my analogy. The point is to highlight what a bad position it is.

 

If you wouldn't tolerate such behavior in real life, why would you tolerate it here?

Yeah this sounds fine to me. I would tolerate this in real life too. Let people think what they want about Debo and Frivolous. Let people talk how they want about it.

 

Let people speak their mind and rise and fall because of that!!!

[Kinganon 219]

10 minutes ago, garforl said:

Yeah this sounds fine to me. I would tolerate this in real life too. Let people think what they want about Debo and Frivolous. Let people talk how they want about it.

 

Let people speak their mind and rise and fall because of that!!!

I don't think a single person alive holds that view. I don't think you understand the ramification of what you're saying.

 

You're essentially saying you'd be okay with losing everything in your life based on someone spreading lies about you. That that would be a perfectly acceptable thing for someone to do, and that they should be within their right to do so.

 

If you genuinely believe that, then okay I guess.

Edited September 4 by Kinganon

[Object 293]

I think posts like these are fine, it shows us what kind of person Fergalicious is.

[Johnston3 88]

:OOOOO PEPPERCORN CONTRACT

[Dao 210]

On 9/3/2024 at 9:05 PM, Kinganon said:

At some point we need to start taking serious action against people acting like @Frivolous, making bold accusations that actively harm the reputation of other players, while not even providing a shed of evidence of any wrongdoing.

 

Why not start demanding evidence in cases like this? If there is none, why not start handing out 3 month to permanent forum suspensions, depending on severity?

 

As things stand right now, and having had to experience it myself first hand, it seems anyone is allowed to say anything about anyone without there being any consequences, even if they're blatantly lying.

 

Posts like this make my blood boil.

 

 

You just accused a forum user of defamation.

 

Many jurisdictions treat defamation as a criminal offence and provide for penalties as such. Do you have a court order? No? Then, as you requested, "we need to start taking serious action against people acting like"...you.

 

Do you see what the problem is? Some people believe that freedom of speech is when they can speak badly of others, but no one has the right to speak badly of them, their friends, their opinions/hobbies/views/statements, etc.

 

No. Freedom of speech begins when you realize that others have the same right to express their own opinions as you do. Even if that opinion (DISGUSTING!!!) is different from yours.

 

P.S. and no, "everyone knows it" is not convincing evidence of being right.