PvP changes I'd like to see

[Camelrider 551]

In no particular order of importance, just numbered for discussion sake. I'm omitting larger discussions such as a merge or removing strongwall mining from this thread because they are highly debated issues.

 

1. Finish the removal of teleports from the game. Karma home, recall home both should not work on a PvP server. Twigs, stones, should only work from deed to deed at most; preferably not at all.

Teleportation removes the permanence of location, further removes the importance of infrastructure, and reduces risk through travel. People should be out and about. There are a billion ways and back that these mechanics can be abused and have been in the past. Some people might argue that the price is a barrier to twigs and I can only offer the counterpoint that every kingdom I have ever been a part of has had the funds to potentially buy around 100 a month without concern, before relying on individual banks. These mechanics have received continual complaints since their implementations.

 

2. Nerf acid salves

It has no weak options, unfortunately is just the strongest in the game for every scenario. I'd like to see it used to an extent, but, it should not be the strongest in every possible scenario with no downsides.

 

3. Increase sickle swing speed by 1 second

Currently also the best weapon in the game providing just shy of medium maul damage output with a swing timer two seconds faster. Same justification as acid salves and I miss weapon diversity in the game.

 

4. Nerf draft horses

Draft horses on a PvP server are way too strong. Running around at close to 40km/h on a wagon or cart is purely ridiculous. It makes travel too easy, too risk free, and offers a get out of jail free card for players who are not paying attention to their surroundings provided someone else can pull up in the whip and they can just escape. Permanence of travel is really important in a game like Wurm, and when its easier and easier to traverse the map; you see less PvP because there is only a finite time that -most- people are out and about.

 

5. Title imping bonuses should be marginally increased, made active once you have the title instead of wearing it.

Gearing is important, already a lot of gear needs to be made (real killer is still horseshoes), and I am of the mind that titles should be cosmetic bonuses only. If you have the title, why do you need to change your title to get the bonuses of your skill?

 

6. Increase wooden fence construction timers or part requirements.

It takes about three times as long to construct the cheapest stone fence while also using parts that weigh more than 20x it's cheapest wooden counterpart. It takes about three seconds to construct the cheapest wooden fence with a combined weight of materials at less than 2kg. The wooden one is just as hard to bash. I don't see the purpose of this, and this has been abused for years now. I remember during the raids of old, I would spam wooden fences (which are not as easy to make as roundpole fences...) during raids because I could construct 4-6 fences in the time it took a trebuchet to fire another shot. I don't think that number is quite 4-6 anymore, but; the point still remains that these are excessively overpowered to build and use.

 

7. Karma walls need a bug prevention mechanic

It's very easy to get someone stuck in these forcing them to have to relog while they are in combat. Consider adding something like "you are too close to finish this fence" check, but for any player. If you can also increase the time they last, then that would make these an alternative to shaker orbs. This is apparently already in the game except in the case of leaving a mine.

 

8. Allow us to disable / forget tomes entirely.

Due to extremely poor documentation of sorcery which has been entirely based off in-game trial and error, a lot of us consumed red cherries (among others) and nerfed our accounts when the system was introduced. The buffs and weaknesses should have never been a secret, and at the very least should have been clarified on examining the tome.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Camelrider

[Oblivionnreaver 5192]

good suggestions acid sickles r dum

 

13 minutes ago, Camelrider said:

Consider adding something like "you are too close to finish this fence" check, but for any player

that is (or should be? might have been broken recently) already in the game, if anyone walks within a tile of the border you're casting on it just cancels without any event message. you get stuck if you walk out of a mine entrance that has one on it but it's the same for walking out into a fence too so that's not limited to karma walls

[Skatyna 492]

should just simplified it all and wrote this instead:

 

make all pvp servers 100x100 tiles big with each kingdom having 5x5 starters in corners.. this way once a player leaves the starter we can pvp and its nowhere to run.. to make pvp odds even, no player has any items at all apart from a spyglass, all skills are capped at 20, including weaponless fighting, as we dont want some pvp nolifer to gain 3 times bigger skill in this than the rest. Result ?

[Votip 1640]

1 hour ago, Skatyna said:

should just simplified it all and wrote this instead:

 

make all pvp servers 100x100 tiles big with each kingdom having 5x5 starters in corners.. this way once a player leaves the starter we can pvp and its nowhere to run.. to make pvp odds even, no player has any items at all apart from a spyglass, all skills are capped at 20, including weaponless fighting, as we dont want some pvp nolifer to gain 3 times bigger skill in this than the rest. Result ?

nice troll

 

anyway, very good suggestions. Would make game better and more interesting. +1

[Xallo 2650]

Allow us to disable / forget tomes entirely.

 

Due to extremely poor documentation of sorcery which has been entirely based off in-game trial and error, a lot of us consumed red cherries (among others) and nerfed our accounts when the system was introduced. The buffs and weaknesses should have never been a secret, and at the very least should have been clarified on examining the tome.

[Camelrider 551]

5 hours ago, Xallo said:

Allow us to disable / forget tomes entirely.

 

Due to extremely poor documentation of sorcery which has been entirely based off in-game trial and error, a lot of us consumed red cherries (among others) and nerfed our accounts when the system was introduced. The buffs and weaknesses should have never been a secret, and at the very least should have been clarified on examining the tome.

 

Added

 

  

8 hours ago, Skatyna said:

should just simplified it all and wrote this instead:

 

make all pvp servers 100x100 tiles big with each kingdom having 5x5 starters in corners.. this way once a player leaves the starter we can pvp and its nowhere to run.. to make pvp odds even, no player has any items at all apart from a spyglass, all skills are capped at 20, including weaponless fighting, as we dont want some pvp nolifer to gain 3 times bigger skill in this than the rest. Result ?

 

 

I'm not really sure what this has to do with any of my suggestions? Maybe you should make another thread to propose your change where it could be seen by more people and you could get some feedback on your idea too.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Camelrider

[Firecat 1013]

defiance raid timers are a problematic feature that could do with being removed. The starter island raid timers are also horrific. 

 

add PMK's to defiance

 

Revert HotA to how it used to be or revamp the system in to something better than just having to be forced to roam a big map for a few hours to win a minor amount of moon metals.

 

annihilate the chaos map and replace it with a map that isn't a mount Everest tribute

 

Those are just my opinions ^

Edited September 15, 2023 by Firecat

[Skatyna 492]

15 hours ago, Camelrider said:

I'm not really sure what this has to do with any of my suggestions?

 

It has everything to do with your suggestion, as you literally suggest removing tons of game content that is already so limited and nerfed on PVP servers.. So might as well just remove everything and be done ?

[Atndy 463]

2 hours ago, Skatyna said:

 

It has everything to do with your suggestion, as you literally suggest removing tons of game content that is already so limited and nerfed on PVP servers.. So might as well just remove everything and be done ?

None of his suggestions remove any content from the game. The only suggestion of removal is acid and all pvpers understand that acid needs removed. 

[Egard 3478]

good suggestions, +1

[Carmichael 722]

Merge PvP servers into 1 consolidated server. Usage of the PvP portal to be added to SFI. All skills transfer except FS/Med path/Faith per usual. Do a new defiance map for all I care to give everyone a fair and fresh start. Add pmk's right off the start. Up the artifacts back to 95-99ql. Add 2 more depot spawns around the map. Add another set of HoTa camps or make it so after x amount of hours more hota camps spawn to be capped. Or just revert to the old system....  Keep the defiance rule set of pok only for lvl 11. everything else goes away(tomes etc etc, the extra stuff that we don't already want). remove raid timers, they're cool, but dumb at the same time, or change it so it's a time of a max or a set of like 8 hours where you CAN'T raid vs 4-10hours (depending on deed size) where you can raid.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Carmichael

[Skatyna 492]

17 hours ago, Atndy said:

None of his suggestions remove any content from the game. 

 

Remove acid, nerf sickle, remove twigs, remove karma, remove tomes, nerf travel/speed convenience etc.. so yeah..

 

Maybe instead of removing and nerfing things all the time to no end we could actually BUFF the other salves, up-BALANCE the other weapons so they are viable too at the sickle levels and ADD stuff and mechanics etc in the game that could enhance PVP experience? No?  Honestly sick with "remove and nerf" mentality not only between DEVs, but also between players...

Edited September 16, 2023 by Skatyna

[Oblivionnreaver 5192]

13 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

Maybe instead of removing and nerfing things all the time to no end we could actually BUFF the other salves, up-BALANCE the other weapons so they are viable too at the sickle levels and ADD stuff and mechanics etc in the game that could enhance PVP experience? No? 

thats called power creep chief, and is basically always the opposite of balance. people die too fast as it is we dont need everything being jacked up to the same level

 

you're free to make your own suggestions about what could be added, no need to troll others suggestions

[Wurmhole 3665]

38 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

 

Remove acid, nerf sickle, remove twigs, remove karma, remove tomes, nerf travel/speed convenience etc.. so yeah..

 

Maybe instead of removing and nerfing things all the time to no end we could actually BUFF the other salves, up-BALANCE the other weapons so they are viable too at the sickle levels and ADD stuff and mechanics etc in the game that could enhance PVP experience? No?  Honestly sick with "remove and nerf" mentality not only between DEVs, but also between players...

If there are 20 weapons to use and all are less preferable to 1, is it easier to tweak 19 weapons or tweak 1?

[Skatyna 492]

19 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

If there are 20 weapons to use and all are less preferable to 1, is it easier to tweak 19 weapons or tweak 1?

 

We were tweaking stuff downwards, aka nerfing, for the last 10 years constantly with the same resulting suggestions to nerf something else over and over afterwards.. 

 

So I stand by my initial post on this thread:

On 9/14/2023 at 8:00 PM, Skatyna said:

make all pvp servers 100x100 tiles big with each kingdom having 5x5 starters in corners.. this way once a player leaves the starter we can pvp and its nowhere to run.. to make pvp odds even, no player has any items at all apart from a spyglass, all skills are capped at 20, including weaponless fighting, as we dont want some pvp nolifer to gain 3 times bigger skill in this than the rest. Result ?

 

least when this is done the nerfings can finally be completed and everyone is happily enjoying totally even playing fields in PVP

[Camelrider 551]

25 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

 

We were tweaking stuff downwards, aka nerfing, for the last 10 years constantly with the same resulting suggestions to nerf something else over and over afterwards.. 

 

So I stand by my initial post on this thread:

 

least when this is done the nerfings can finally be completed and everyone is happily enjoying totally even playing fields in PVP

 

The problem is that everything in this thread is too strong, which is why they need to be nerfed.

 

Did you play when 90 body accounts were dying in three hits WITH 50+% damage reduction?

[Wurmhole 3665]

So I think I am pretty well known as an "absolutely never gonna" PvPer and I probably don't have much business on this thread, but one thing that is constant in all game forums I dabble in:  PvPers ALWAYS find the absolute pinnacle of performance in character/gear builds and when they do, it quickly becomes the standard everyone adopts, which then leads to calls for devs to "balance" the game better.  No matter how well devs do on balance, to try and make multiple build styles viable, one style will rise to the top.

 

But, do we really want balanced PvP?  Who joins a PvP server with the goal of having a draw (tie) in every battle?  If we all had the exact same skills and all had the exact same weapons, imped to the same number, with the exact same spells cast, then willing battles would come down to the side with the most players.  The more differences get removes and more balanced it gets, makes it get more and more vanilla.  Pretty soon, PvP can be judged by who can punch a target dummy for the longest, without taking  bio break.

 

If I were a dev and wanted to get bored players re-engaged in trying to stay at peak performance, I would put in a rotating set of hidden boosts, which randomly buff different armors, weapons and enchants.  Not so much that it is obviously apparent, but enough that it can help sway the outcome in an evenly matched battle.  Enough that it makes it discoverable over time, through player testing.  That way, nobody sets their sights on just one perfect combination of gear/skill, until the dreaded nerf bat knocks it down and everyone moves to the next.

 

What a beautiful thing it would be to see someone show up on the battlefield with a pair of butcher knives and take down the sickle king!  Not that I would ever personally witness it, but it would be great to read here on forums.

[Carmichael 722]

Full rebalance of all weapons. And the health system needs actual numbers as well with the damage you do. Scale body str to a set health. These all need visuals/ui updates.

Remove any and all cr bonuses a priest has for pvp. 

 

All the same timers for size of weapons.

All the same overall dmg for each size of weapons.

All the same parry rates specific to size of weapon and no weight contributions either. 

 

Make all the armors have a flat damage reduction throughout no matter the ql. Make it so quality increases the actual damage type reduction.

 

Larger bonuses/negatives vs armors vs the dmg types we currently have. Add a mace that does piercing dmg with more blunt or simply replace the crowbar as a weapon for a mace. 

Consolidate all the weapon skills in their own categories: 

Weapon Skill (parent skill, sub skills below)

Swords

Mails

Clubs

Axes

Polarms

 

If I have x amount of x skill I can use the small/medium/2 handed version of it grinding 1 skill instead of 3. Opens more skill slots for other weapons/types/skills in general too.

Fix the skills so they don't drop off hard on body stats or w/e ATM if you grind them (would be a good time to do it).

 

Idk what else to add but...

 

Revamp and simplify. 

[Carmichael 722]

Remove the ability to make buildings or structures on dirt walls on pvp. Anything higher than 40 slope doesn't give you an option to place buildings/walls. 

 

Sorry for the wall of text ahead of time.

 

New structure types that can be built. Castle walls, castle porticulis, drawbridge, whatever else you can think of. Requirements are very high to create. 100-500 bricks, 100-500 mortar/clay, 20 structure reinforcements (think fence bars). Each structure takes up 1 tile and can be interacted with. These have REALLY high health against trebuchets/other siege weapons. But go down in stages but can never actually be destroyed unless there is no longer a deed there and can only be placed on deed. These walls cannot be fixed if enemies are in the vicinity of local. Essentially a real life effect where you can put a hole in the wall and climb/walk through it. Battle rams do more damage against porticulis'/castle gates but those gates/porticulis cannot be lockpicked.

The siege weapons do more dmg to what its actually hitting and the "splash" damage is significantly reduced on the sides literally like 5 max dmg for target and .5 for sides. For all structures on a deed. Make it so you can walk up it and place balistas on it or something from the inside. You cannot stack them ie you can put another set of castle structures behind them and make endless rings (10-15 tile distance). You're Essentially allowed to have 1 ring of it only and it has to be on a larger deed (specific to size). Requires 80-90 masonry. Tunnel systems underneath have to be fully reinforced or it can potentially take increased damage. Buff up other fences on deed. If a fence has less than 10 items, the timers are increased to that of a fence/wall with 10 items proportionally.

 

Also make it so you cant machine gun trebuchet it every 6 seconds. Put a cool down per character on how often you can use a trebuchet/other warmachines. To like 20-45 seconds. Also allow war machines to take damage and not be repairable. So defenders can use balistas to shoot back. To try and destroy enemy war machines.

 

Plus pve would love this for their deeds...

Edited September 18, 2023 by Carmichael

[Rockmodd 108]

On 9/14/2023 at 9:08 AM, Camelrider said:

6. Increase wooden fence construction timers or part requirements.

It takes about three times as long to construct the cheapest stone fence while also using parts that weigh more than 20x it's cheapest wooden counterpart. It takes about three seconds to construct the cheapest wooden fence with a combined weight of materials at less than 2kg. The wooden one is just as hard to bash. I don't see the purpose of this, and this has been abused for years now. I remember during the raids of old, I would spam wooden fences (which are not as easy to make as roundpole fences...) during raids because I could construct 4-6 fences in the time it took a trebuchet to fire another shot. I don't think that number is quite 4-6 anymore, but; the point still remains that these are excessively overpowered to build and use.

 

This needs to be addressed for real. Raids aren't even about fighting each other anymore, its who can destroy roundpole fences vs who can build them....and building wins every time.  The fact that it takes multiple wrath of mags to destroy a fence that takes less than 10 seconds to build is insane. Bashing them is absolutely useless.

[Kulthar 113]

Good read, we def need weapon diversity, makes zero sense how a farmers tool is the best weapon, longsword should be the best "all around" weapon with other weapons being either more defensive or offensive or having unique critical chances based on circumstance. Also agree with raid timers being dumb, disable entirely. Agree with fences being OP af too (just make them easier to destroy)

Chiming in with some thoughts ;

Add a disarm mechanic.

Add whips as a weapon (would be the best disarming weapon)

Add Throwing Axes, and Javelins. (ranged weapon that doesnt go off archery skill but axe skill, not sure what javelins would go off of maybe archery still or a combination of archery and spears)

Make it so ships that crash into eachother deal damage to eachother while manned. (epic boat battles)

Add grappling as a thing. (not sure if you can board an enemy ship but should be able to and then grapple and throw people overboard or atleast move them out of the commander spot and start driving the boat)

Add the Flail (ball and chain) as a weapon. Also add Slings, Rapiers and Scimitars.

Add battering rams as a new siege weapon that must be manned by atleast 5 people.

Make dumping hot oil from atop a wall on people a thing. (this actually happened historically and is the counter to the battering ram)

Add explosives and poison gas.

Add the ability to "salt" a field making it unusable for farming for a long period of time.

Make it possible to burn down wooden buildings and make spreading forest fires a thing.

No idea how difficult these would be to implement but would be cool af. $.02

EDIT: keep having new ideas but im not adding them all, already edited this post like 5 times. (add crossbows, add spiked armor lul)

Edited December 3, 2023 by Kulthar