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DemonaNightshade

Valrei International: Canoe Believe It?!

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Original traders bought in bulk were a way to monetize and eventually play for free, given you invest a lot... and SLOWLY regain your investment, a lot of that was "exploited" with the knowledge how they worked to gain silver to spend on player sold items, that was obviously bad... we lost a cool feature in the process... where we had random people selling random trash or not.. to get few coppers, some washed found from abandoned deeds items, gems, source crystals, animal bits.. etc... all that made sense as incentive was coins in return for selling a random item you want to get rid of but gain some "cash" in return, that was cool to trade later for other as item for item.. as traders accepted items vs items as item worth, so if you were to find 80QL plate armor helmet and it was worth 60 copper coins, you could just throw at the trader several cordage ropes, cloth squares, etc.. to get the helmet for free basically, this was cool.. but now it's gone, if something like that could reemerge in some form.. obviously not with coins, but then what could be the incentive to have valuable items dropped into the item pool? :)

Edited by Finnn
random offtopic reminder of old feature

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2 hours ago, Xallo said:

In a sense, this change is akin to your monthly mortgage payments going up by $200 (or whatever)/mo despite the massive down-payment you put on it to begin with, when you had the cash to afford it. It's illogical, and certainly unfair to those who've invested into it.

Actually it's more akin to a contract having a 6 month discount that goes away. Deed prices are not being raised, it's a discount that's (at this point) not even confirmed to be removed. It puts everyone on an equal playing field too.

 

Framing the thing as the payments going up creates the wrong impression, because it's not affecting everyone, and those who it is affecting are getting their down-payment returned

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2 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Actually it's more akin to a contract having a 6 month discount that goes away. Deed prices are not being raised, it's a discount that's (at this point) not even confirmed to be removed. It puts everyone on an equal playing field too.

 

Framing the thing as the payments going up creates the wrong impression, because it's not affecting everyone, and those who it is affecting are getting their down-payment returned

 

 

Okay, but this was never framed as a temporary discount, unless I am failing to read something between these lines:

  

On 2/16/2020 at 2:46 PM, Retrograde said:

Traders
As previously stated, traders will be reworked to no longer pay out silvers based on kingdom coffers and ratio, but instead reduce upkeep of the deed they are on by a fixed percentage. They will reduce deed upkeep by 20% and instead of being limited by a tile range will simply be one trader per deed. 

 

Wurmpedia:

Quote

Traders give a 20% discount on monthly deed upkeep and also sell a variety of goods.

 

 

It's the constant change of mechanics without any explanation or apparent forethought that are upsetting people. A reasonable and rational explanation to the sudden changes would go a long way in helping calm the nerves of a lot of people who are going to be hit by this rather drastic change. I feel though without a compromise that involves keeping this discount in place, people are going to be forced to reduce/disband deeds.

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12 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

You are painting them out to be bad people, not everyone is.

 

Not for buying a trader, no. 

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1 minute ago, Cista said:

 

Not for buying a trader, no. 

Yes but they got the trader for the discount now you want people to resize deed and lose out or pay more for it.

 

I think there was also a lot of fuss over the priest changes many years ago? I came after that and have a priest myself but I believe years ago it was easier to increase the skill in some way until the changed the mechanics of that? I'm not here shouting that I want my priest to be easier to raise just because it was easier back then.

 

People will be hit hard with this change, genuine people, I just hope they can work it out somehow because it is a lot to lose and some people will be having the thought of going to WU, I've already seen 1 post on that I bet a lot of others will be thinking it also.

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Man, all this buzz about traders reminds me that I should probably go get one for my deed.

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Let's be real here for a moment.

 

They wont make more money with the removal of the 20 % discount. With the amount of Inflation etc. many people are already hard pressed for RL money.

So what will happens if the deeds suddenly gets more expensive: The majority will either reduce deed size by 20 %, or let one additional deed or the premium for an alt char lapse (or leave wurm altogether).

 

My personal guess? After the removal of the deed bonus the removal of "Black Friday" deals will be next.

Edited by Bekador
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Looks like I have something new to add to my free player guide!

 

My only query is why gate the cover creation chance behind ns?  Surely the people who will benefit most are newer players (random healing cover mats are easier to find and carry than cotton).

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Love how such a well known and widely used feature by players of all play times once again is being changed and those upset with it are labelled either 'veterans/elitists/whales/disingenuous' 

 

The brush used to paint players who are upset with economy changes in an MMO with a player driven economy always stays ready to be dickish. 

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43 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Actually it's more akin to a contract having a 6 month discount that goes away. Deed prices are not being raised, it's a discount that's (at this point) not even confirmed to be removed. It puts everyone on an equal playing field too.

 

Not really, as there was never a set time on how long the discount would apply, thus making it indefinite. Due to that people would plan around that when designing the size of their deed. That's something people wouldn't have done if they knew the discount was only temporary.

 

Everybody wont be on an equal playing field after this, you see, an equal playing field won't ever exist to begin with, as that would require everybody to have an equal amount of money which they can spend on Wurm.. After all after this now we will have 3 groups of players, one which hasn't been affected, one group which can absorb the increase in pricing, and one group which is going to need to make some really painful deed resizing choices and potentially throw a lot of their work away. Indeed all very equal..

 

That third group is honestly getting really really screwed over. Thankfully I'm in group 2 as I can just drop prem on an alt without issue, but I really feel sorry for the people in the third group if nothing is done about this.

Edited by Ecrir
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11 minutes ago, Bekador said:

My personal guess? After the removal of the deed bonus the removal of "Black Friday" deals will be next.

With how new a feature that is and how its not a traditional black friday sale (70+% off) I doubt it will be removed - losing 20% on a bulk sale but enticing people to spend far more than they regularly would is still all profit. 

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I just see another update with zero PvP additions, changes or anything. 

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I'm part of a large deed, but not a mega deed so it doesn't effect me as much as others, but I'm still opposed to the 20% discount being removed should that be the case.

 

Wurm has so much long term planning involved and big projects take a lot of time and investment. I've been working on building some projects for well over 2 years now, and planned those projects based on my upkeep costing X amount. If my upkeep suddenly shoots up and becomes untenable and I had to choose between paying more, or resizing and losing all that hard work, I would be devastated

 

The biggest problem is this is all hypothetical since the details of the 20% discounts future have not been mentioned. I really hope in a couple of days we get a post announcing the 20% discount was never under threat and all this stress is for nothing, but right now all we know is the mechanic that applies the discount is being removed. Which is leaving people to try and figure it out themselves and not have a clear picture about their deeds future.

Edited by HawkHawk
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The amount of players i know who are on break (and regularly return for large periods of time) that have large deeds and contribute to wurm financially that will be hugely affected by this change is quite large.   This change is simply going to chase more long term players away. The argument "Its fairer for new players" is no offense rubbish..   as they are so small in number I imagine the "veterans" this change will affect and alienate contribute astronomically more to wurm. This move is simply bad for wurm and bad for the entire playerbase. I personally cant justify contributing any more of my money to the game when in a few months i may find my deed upkeep is now unaffordable. In this case considering the amount of work I've put in and that this was forced apon us by the devs ill likely quit. 

 

I put enough money into this game as it is, it is not viable to continue paying for these deeds without the discount. Best case I will simply disband them.. this leads to less money for the Devs. Worst case I quit.. as I can no longer prevent decay on massive structures at the edge of my deed without sinking insane amounts of money into the game, id also need to rebuild the outer layers of my deed to compensate.. which would leave a wasteland around me. 

 

This change shouldn't of even been announced.. these terrible ideas just chase off players the game is failing to to replace as it is.

 

I love this game and alot of the recent changes.. I was thinking things were going in the right direction now.. but this is quite frankly stupid.

 

A few of you newer players may think "so what, these dinosaurs have too much as it is" these Dinosaurs are the ones who are keeping the game afloat, I'm unsure how many new players you know paying for premium on 7+ characters and upkeep for 4+ deeds.

 

Eitherway if i have to downsize my deed due to this thats me.. im out.. i spend to much on this game as it is

I just don't understand why when the player base is already thin as it is... you'd do this and alienate more of the community, bad decisions like this affect everyone who pays for this game.. as in the end once the player base drops too much we're all gone.. including yourselves.

 

I canoe believe this is even being announced in the first place.

 

 

 

Edited by Crack
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53 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Looks like I have something new to add to my free player guide!

 

My only query is why gate the cover creation chance behind ns?  Surely the people who will benefit most are newer players (random healing cover mats are easier to find and carry than cotton).

lower healing cover, raise difficulty on eraser stamps and everybody's happy as utility and skilling method

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1 hour ago, Deltadoggg said:

I just see another update with zero PvP additions, changes or anything. 

Supposedly this year we'll get a pvp update or news about Chaos / Epic/ Defiance.

 

We're hitting the middle of the year atm and no news. Depressing as usual.

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Wow, some great stuff coming in this update. 😁

 

But just one silly question - why not just make rafts float instead of functioning as storage boxes? Canoes are cool too though.

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I'm excited for all the new stuff, except the traders going away. I don't actually have one anymore myself, but had been considering getting one again.

Surely, the mechanic that provided a discount can be replaced in some way. Perhaps something that makes joining a village more appealing.

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2 hours ago, Bekador said:

 

My personal guess? After the removal of the deed bonus the removal of "Black Friday" deals will be next.

 

What wouldn't make them more money as well.

 

Its logical and hard to believe someone would be so stupid to think it would raise the income.

I buy prem for 3 chars for a year in advance, if black friday is removed i may pay prem for only 2 chars, simple as it is.

 

Happenings in the world and my retarted gouvernment making it more and more difficult to pay my heating and energy, i simply can't afford more safely.

And my guess is that 50-75% of the players are in a similar situation, because real life is going down to crap in many parts of the world atm.

 

I'd like Wurm stay for another 10-20 years but a warm cave and a fed cat comes first.

 

 

Edited by Beewolf
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Big old deed here, trader gone is gonna hurt. But like the cupboard and new store. Please try not to punish older deeds with upgrades. Give me an option to do something else to get the discount back.

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56 minutes ago, MordosKull said:

Wow, some great stuff coming in this update. 😁

 

But just one silly question - why not just make rafts float instead of functioning as storage boxes? Canoes are cool too though.

Somebody have to make a character with specific new animation, I can't recall last time we've had any interaction animation added, canoe literally uses sitting animation and boat control limitations, and probably was taken from steam suggestions or nfi player which doesn't play anymore. I can't see canoes to be that needed, if anything I'd be horrified to get on one.. and sail through xanadu borders if that thing decays or takes damage fast, imagine being stuck  at xana border..(it's cool there's summon as option and freedom to spam for help of course)👍🤘

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3 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Looks like I have something new to add to my free player guide!

 

My only query is why gate the cover creation chance behind ns?  Surely the people who will benefit most are newer players (random healing cover mats are easier to find and carry than cotton).

search bushes for increased chance at cotton when wounded you'll find it more often. trees for mushrooms

 

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many good new addition, traders been removed doesnt effect me at all but can understand why this is bad news for many.

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Grandfather in the deeds with a trader to a 20% permanent discount and nothing is really lost.

The lost opportunity of being able to do so in the future? I too would have liked to invest in Apple in its darkest hour.

 

*Disclosure* I have no trader deeds and no benefit in this suggestion.

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17 hours ago, Darklords said:

I will see about clarifying the details of this better,  appreciate the feedback and I just want to note we will have months to fine tune this to feedback we have no plans to rush anything like this through fast.

 

I really hope the feedback in this thread will be listened to. For a lot of people, the 20% upkeep discount from traders is important, and it would be a real shame if there is no way to keep that in the game. It should be so easy to do, too (e.g. an extra options window), so at this point there is no excuse for not implementing an alternative.

 

On a broader note, I also really think that patch notes should be more thoroughly checked. The discussion in this thread is 99% about an aspect of trader removal, and this is a pattern we've seen a lot lately - a single problem/issue takes over these threads, and what should be an opportunity to get excited about positive news is dominated by such a mishap.

 

Instead, it would be good to see one (or all) of the following:

  • Circulate news posts around the entire team before publishing them. Even an hour or two of notice should give an opportunity to get feedback and catch any obvious issues that are likely to come up.
  • Be prepared to make faster, stronger commitments when issues are brought up. It's great that Darklords engages in these threads, but "we will clarify this better and fine tune based on your feedback" is PR speak for... not committing to anything. The issues in this thread would be almost completely alleviated by quickly saying that the 20% discount will be replaced another way - I don't think that's hard to commit to, even on short notice, and it would stop these mini PR disasters from happening on ~50% of news threads.

Wurm is a complicated game, and changing one thing can affect many other features or things people used that feature for. Hence, player feedback is essential; and stronger, quicker commitments (even to really simple things) would stop threads like this from getting a bit derailed every time. Likewise, the news posts could be checked more widely to try and spot issues like this one (or the now-deleted bunny ear discussion) from happening.

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