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DemonaNightshade

Valrei International: Canoe Believe It?!

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35 minutes ago, joedobo said:

First off, I don't have a trader.

Don't grandfather in trader deed discounts. It will harm future customer's impressions. Wurm, if you don't care about the 10% thing, why not add a new item players can buy to get the 10% discount? And have it cost whatever traders will be refunded for.

 

I want to repeat,  Any form of buff (upkeep discounts, shop discounts, discounts of rando-stuff) for older customers that is made untenable for future customers is a horrible idea. It will hurt Morral and the impression the new customers have of Wurm.

it would need to be for all players for sure.  I suggested to make it a shop item.  it's worth it for those who have more then 10s a month upkeep. as it's 20% not 10% ,   24s year saved. may not be much for those who make ingame money. 

 

I don't  make money in game. i spend it. and if i had to pay more upkeep. i would buy less from the community and just grind it my self. I can see the economy change as a result . not sure how many own traders. but the savings I bet part of that is used to buy from others. would it still be after?

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those improvements to timers sound great!.

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Devs you got the numbers. please post how many of us have traders. and how much we save per month per year.  and you will see why we are not happy about this.

 

sure more income to the game in one hand . but how many will reduce size. or just disband. and then income may be less then it is now.   

 

I checked my 2 deeds 87s a year i save.  thats a  lot. not a little.  .

 

Please  poll the numbers and show us.  and hey put up a poll and ask us players if we like .hate. ok but would like ....   and leave it up a few months so everyone can put their input in. many of us. like me take 3-6 month breaks from the game. i also always try to keep above 300 days of upkeep .so i never worry about loosing my deeds

 

oh and i do love everything else that has happened tot he game past few months and the plans coming. but please don't fix things that are not broken "Traders" I have not seen any complaints since they were changed years ago . why now?

Edited by validate

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2 hours ago, Xallo said:

Was the trader discount for deeds an oversight or.....? I'm confused that there was no mention of it in the OP, as it's a pretty significant change for a very large portion of the player base.

 

Personally, I don't think traders need to be removed, as I don't see the harm in keeping them, even if they are redundant. They are even perhaps a fun insight into the past of Wurm for new players.

 

With that said, I am happy to see the addition of allowing silver to be used for the purchase of a few more loyalty items.

 

I'm on the fence with canoes from a PvP aspect, but for PvE they seem like a fun idea.

 

im not on the fence at all, please disable them on pvp or i will be running around with 12 unfinished canoes, and so will silakka

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I read nothing in the post about removing the 20% discount. If this is meant to be a sly way of doing it, then I agree, it is bad and I expect way more from the team. How ever, until proven otherwise I choose to believe they will only do when they said, remove the traiders. They might have a plan for when to replace them, or they might still look for good ideas to solve this part it all. I actually like the idea of removing the need to have a trader to be able to get a 20% discount.

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This money investor doesn't like the removal of my 20% discount. I spend 2s shy of 1g a month on deed upkeep without the trader discount, with I spend only 76s 44c. Now I'm hearing I will have a rent increase of 22s so now instead of buying 114.76 x 9 a year now I will have to buy another 2g 64s so almost a 300 us dollar increase.

Might need to go back to Wurm Unlimited and start modding my own server again and wake up my files of personal mods and start adding stuff like I was. Remember Team I choose to play here and give you money It's a choice but not a option. Trust me it's not the money,  money I got its the principle of it.

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I'm placing my cannon in Falador

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disable canoes on pvp lmfao  [also cool changes, looks good]

Edited by Beastwolf

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19 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

im not on the fence at all, please disable them on pvp or i will be running around with 12 unfinished canoes, and so will silakka

You're aquatic anyway with refresh runes lol

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So something along the line of black friday year sale for premium  would work ?

Just buy a item that lets you pay less for 6 months or a year ..

More players may buy into that ?

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Im glad never needed trader. That means never needed keep under my control all local area, all island, all mountain, etc etc. Long live for small deeds. :D

Thank you for upgrade alchemy cupboard. :)

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1 hour ago, platinumteef said:

 

im not on the fence at all, please disable them on pvp or i will be running around with 12 unfinished canoes, and so will silakka

On Canoe PvP balance, what do you think would need to happen there to make them work without total removal.

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why is that a problem, you can only use one, even then put debuff to sailors in such and just shoot arrows at them, that's already requirement to keep a bow for pvp

 

--edit if necessary allow only one finished or unfinished to be in inventory, still allows 1 to be in use and another to be in inventory, unless being in such disallows carrying un/finished canoe, whatever is best to balance "the meta"

Edited by Finnn

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21 minutes ago, Darklords said:

On Canoe PvP balance, what do you think would need to happen there to make them work without total removal.

Only thing I can think of if total removal isn’t an option maybe you need to be in your kingdoms influence to complete them. But the real answer is

A. Don’t allow fresh toons to spawn on Chaos(solves the need and should have been disabled in the first place, probably lost tons of players due to them spawning at the landings and walking into DTF and dying) 

B. Do not allow the canoes to be finished on Chaos

Edited by user
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as to alchemy boards, what are the odds to halt the nonsense with pegs and sealing kits;

anything sealed, once unsealed - peg vanishes and to re-seal the container another is needed, this is pretty crazy when it comes to coffee as it decays and there's simply no convenient no decay container, unless SMC is considered pocket backpack to carry around at all times;

sealing kits lose ql, unsure if there was minimal ql requirement to be useful, still same problem if it's used for actions where the container have to be opened and sealed again "often";

 

brings a lot of inconvenient annoying micromanagement and creations for items with short lifespan, just look at this and consider the amount of work:

Quote

pegs are less work, but still logs/shafts/woodscraps/pegs all that takes some container to be laying around to hold spare scraps, far from ideal for normal gameplay that isn't annoying

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10 minutes ago, user said:

Only thing I can think of if total removal isn’t an option maybe you need to be in your kingdoms influence to complete them. But the real answer is

A. Don’t allow fresh toons to spawn on Chaos(solves the need and should have been disabled in the first place, probably lost tons of players due to them spawning at the landings and walking into DTF and dying) 

B. Do not allow the canons to be finished on Chaos

 

yep probably this

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 ... refunded the price of the trader now, or the price when we bought it? 

This snip below is from when traders were last nerfed. For context, I had bought my trader and had it 'active' just three or four months before traders got changed and the price got dropped. I was basically told 'tough luck' on having just invested 50s for a trader that now cost 35s for my 1s deed to which it gave no benefit, and with the change, the only way to make it not just 50s down the hole was to expand my deed - so I did. Now you're telling me the deed that I expanded and filled to make my full-price-fully-nerfed trader at least pay for itself in a few years is going to be taken away, and my choices are to either pay even more per month than I had already committed to so my trader would one day earn his keep, or bulldoze and reduce my deed by 20% or more? Yowch.

There's some super cool stuff announced in this post, but I'm with everyone else here: you can't just slip in a bit about traders getting taken out right at the end and not address the main reason anyone still has one...

 

On 2/8/2020 at 4:00 PM, crimsonearth said:

There is a massive difference between people who have been running 3s+ deeds for free for several years and folk who bought a trader in the last six months - heck even the last year. The suggested changes for me, for example, means either running a bigger deed than I need to earn a discount on deed costs from my trader (i.e. spend more money each month to make my trader have any silver value in my gameplay) or a 1s size deed at probably no discount. Even on a 1s deed (which is plenty for most folk who are going it solo) if we could earn a 25% discount on upkeep, for example (and it sounds like the trader discount won't apply to those deeds, but let's say it did), that means a trader is 'worth' 25c/month as an investment, which will take a full 200 months to pay for itself. That's more than 15 years. That's my problem.

What was widely considered an already slow investment but an investment which most committed players made, nonetheless, which helped to cover my deed and pay for materials to expand it at a rate of, these days, maybe 2-3s/mo was going to at least pay for itself in 2 years. It'll now take 10-20 years (depending on discount level, if one even applies to me).

 

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So ill start with the good. i love the new changes looking forward to those breeding messages. how much will a canoe weight? can a player carry one?
For the elephant in the room traders going away i have a simple fix and it wont take any work on your part. call the npc's "Foreman" or something akin to that and leave the 20% discount going for those whom have the contracts already. and sunset the ability to ever buy another one ever. sound fair?

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29 minutes ago, user said:

Only thing I can think of if total removal isn’t an option maybe you need to be in your kingdoms influence to complete them. But the real answer is

A. Don’t allow fresh toons to spawn on Chaos(solves the need and should have been disabled in the first place, probably lost tons of players due to them spawning at the landings and walking into DTF and dying) 

B. Do not allow the canoes to be finished on Chaos

 

 

the Memories of so many new players that would ask in global or CA for help leaving Chaos lmfao 

 stop allowing new toons on chaos they don’t know what they are entering it isn’t like Rust or other easy to enter PVP games. 

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I am going to go out on a limb and suggest the changes with the Traders has something to do with preparations for the eventual opening of the border between NFI and SFI - the act of which will bring immediate and abundant cash into the coffers.  New deeds will be popping up everywhere, some old players will return, and Wurm Online will have yet another revival.

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5 minutes ago, Beastwolf said:

 

 

the Memories of so many new players that would ask in global or CA for help leaving Chaos lmfao 

 stop allowing new toons on chaos they don’t know what they are entering it isn’t like Rust or other easy to enter PVP games. 

wait was it you who helped me after i logged my old main back in? lol

 

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Just now, azuleslight said:

wait was it you who helped me after i logged my old main back in? lol

 


May have lol, we had to help so many new players leave chaos, most the time they get lost and killed by someone roaming while making a shack.

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Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but it was said that the returning skins will be available in the silver shop as are other mark items 

Will the returning skins be available for marks? Will the other items continue to be available for marks? 

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I have a Trader, and an enormous deed so it saves me a lot of silver and I would hate to see it go away. At the same time, I don't think it's a good idea to grandfather in the 20% discounts for existing deeds and not allow the discount for future deeds. If Traders are going to be removed, the only truly fair way to do it is to allow everyone (present and future) to purchase the permanent discount for 35-40s or whatever the going price of a Trader is these days. 

 

But my question is what is the actual motive for removing Traders? Is it just a technical limitation with the silver shop? Does Wurm need the extra cash from deed upkeep? Is this part of a master plan to eventually merge NFI and SFI? Transparency is key here. 

 

Finally, kudos to WO for announcing this now, even if they don't have all the details worked out. Its better to have a heads up that this is coming down the pike now, even if it's vague. If they had waited, people would be asking why they didn't get an announcement sooner. Devs, please take your time working this out and more importantly, implementing the changes. This will have major ramifications on the playerbase - hopefully in the right direction.

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Quite happy to see anything that makes the game a bit more approachable to new players (there's a lot more of that needed)!

However, I can't help but agree that making changes to systems that apparently will penalize those who have kept the doors open seems unwise. I'm sure something will be worked out, but it does look like another case of too little information being released ahead of time causing panic. IMO, we seriously need to get a handle on that in this community; figure it out, then announce with lots of lead time.

Keep up the great work!

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