Idlamn

Bunny ears? >_>

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On 4/15/2023 at 3:39 AM, Emoo said:

It is your opinion that the game is Medieval theme'd, it is my opinion that the game is generic fantasy with no adherence to a particular time in human history. A quick to example of one of the many reasons of why I have that opinion can be demonstrated with boats in the game:
- Rowboats originate around 5800BC
- Sailboats were around 4000BC
- Knarrs were around 8th century
- Corbita's were around 200CE
- Cogs were around the 10th century
- Caravels were the 13th century
(dates may be off by a few hundred years here and there but doesn't need to be 100% accurate for my point to be valid).

 

Idk what's your point actually in here, but all those ships can exist in 13th century, according to you. So if 13th century it's in the medieval age rage then wurm ships are ships that been possible to made in medieval age. It's not like people forget to make rowboats when started making sailboats, or forgot to make cogs after they figured out how to make bigger caravels. So pretty much it's not matter of his opnion or yours, as it's matter of fact

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On 4/14/2023 at 12:53 PM, Emoo said:

I'm also entitled to my opinion that it's actually pretty funny that THIS is the straw that broke the "immersion" camel's back.

That's the point I reckon you have missed.  It isn't a final straw, it is an increasing trend and it has been specifically mentioned the last 2 or 3 times.  

 

I think even people with similar opinions on this probably have different reasons.  Personally, weird colours etc don't bother me.  Plenty of people have coloured lights or brightly dyed objects - my own house is dyed a green that looks like neon lighting.  Even the wild fantasy fantasy elements don't trigger any kind cringe from me.  For me personally it is the modern stuff that is plainly out of place in the setting that bothers me.  Someone in a Christmas hat looks a bit out of place but it is rare to see.  The snowmen that people mention are to me not that out of place - snowmen have a mediaeval origin.  The yule goat etc look about right.  Teddy bears, especially teddy bear backpacks don't (to me). 

 

The trend that I have seen is that instead of rare gifts (rare in terms of frequency, not in terms of distribution) - of which only some were purely cosmetic and only some of the cosmetic ones were anachronistic - we now have increasingly frequent additions of anachronistic cosmetic items that are functional (e.g. the bucket helmet skin is a functional helmet, and the backpack/sack also) and permanent.  We are already on the slippery slope and some of us are expressing concern at how fast we are accelerating.

Edited by TheTrickster
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On 4/14/2023 at 9:21 PM, Oblivionnreaver said:

everyone that attempted to have reasonable discussion just got hit with the same three people saying "no you're wrong for not hating it like i do" like a week ago my man

Not so much a fallacy as simply not factual.  Some people explained why they didn't like the trend.  Some people explained they were fine with it. 

Then there were those who said things like "it is just bunny ears" (emphasis added) and otherwise tried to paint the concern about a diluting/fragmenting look/feel as some kind of massive over-reaction to a single item. There are also those who are implying that those who maintain that their concern is valid are somehow trying to bully the people who are fine with the trend, a bit like you did there.

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On 4/16/2023 at 6:11 PM, Emoo said:

Valid point, though I contest that a quick look reveals that this appears to be the only "medieval" claim by anyone on the team.

When the team puts a big red official "seal of approval" on it that explicitly says it is unbiased, factual and opinion-free, how many times should that be repeated before you accept it?

 

Hint:  the number should be less than 2.

 

(yeah, I am getting snarky - reading so much snark does that - although Emoo's post was not itself snarky)

Edited by TheTrickster
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On 4/17/2023 at 5:11 AM, Simyaci said:

We still have rowboats today. Made of wood. 

Yep.  Now imagine a Wurm hydrofoil catamaran.

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I think the point is in a medieval fantasy setting which this is, bunny ears and a bunny backpack don't seem out of place to me and others at all and I and others don't agree that those cosmetic items are jarring to the theme in anyway. You've got to take a step back and look at the tone the anti-ears crew are taking. Look at the title of this thread. Then there's this extreme reach that these cosmetics which have been consistent since their implementation, will lead to a "laser guns in ghost of tsushima" level problem, or "hydrofoil catamarans." It comes across as abrasive haughtiness in the first instance and screeching hysteria in the the second, damages your argument and invites mockery alongside bad faith since the bar had already been set to that quality of discussion.

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I am just surprised that my comment about what I can achieve in game that somehow fits within the setting of the game which I think is enough proof that bunny ears arent that far fetched received 0 recognition by their arguments. 

Wheres the kick back about the purple floating orbs of lights, or the madmen screaming about dragons dripping in purple gucci swag? 

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Everyone do what they wannt and what they can in wurm, not just you and that have nothing to do with why someone else think bunny ears among the other stuff aren't fitting in the "theme" or how you wanna call it.

 

My wurm character is a boring dude.He dig tar all day long, then when the sun sets, he jump into the sea with his duck floaty around his waist. Hey, where's is his ducky floaty?

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2 hours ago, Blazecraze said:

Wheres the kick back about the purple floating orbs of lights, or the madmen screaming about dragons dripping in purple gucci swag? 

I did say that I have no problem with weird colours and lights.  For me it is the modern stuff that jars.

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2 hours ago, Zundy said:

I think the point is in a medieval fantasy setting which this is, bunny ears and a bunny backpack don't seem out of place to me and others at all and I and others don't agree that those cosmetic items are jarring to the theme in anyway. You've got to take a step back and look at the tone the anti-ears crew are taking. Look at the title of this thread. Then there's this extreme reach that these cosmetics which have been consistent since their implementation, will lead to a "laser guns in ghost of tsushima" level problem, or "hydrofoil catamarans." It comes across as abrasive haughtiness in the first instance and screeching hysteria in the the second, damages your argument and invites mockery alongside bad faith since the bar had already been set to that quality of discussion.

Hydrofoil catamarans was my attempt ad reductio ad absurdum.  I don't think there has been consistency, and I don't think suggesting that since it has been accelerating it will continue to accelerate is any kind of extreme reach.

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I don't have much interaction with other players, but when I do, they often wear skeleton faces and/or tophats, whilst radiating green and pink light somehow. 

I get it. This appeals to a more modern type of player with a mindset to try and stand out in the crowd, to be the most remarkable unique in a world of uniques. And they consider this fun. Who am I to judge or criticize?

 

My personal preference would probably be something like 'keep it a bit realistic for a medieval-like fantasy setting', but that's a very prolongued grey area. 

 

Bunny ears a problem? That ship has long sailed. I don't think any discussion will change that. *puts on sunglasses and a long cigarette from the spring break 2017 give-away* Deal with it.

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On 4/18/2023 at 11:54 AM, Zundy said:

damages your argument and invites mockery alongside bad faith since the bar had already been set to that quality of discussion.

It damages the arguments and also invites bad faith when selected and very specfic set of people jump into and try to riduclie complaint aobut something in deffence of their friend that come up with bunny ears and stuff like that while no one really have anything against anyone but specific trend that for some it doesn't make sense to continue.

 

On 4/18/2023 at 2:53 PM, Myriad said:

My personal preference would probably be something like 'keep it a bit realistic for a medieval-like fantasy setting', but that's a very prolongued grey area. 

And how is going wirth that? Did you manage to stand out in crowd and feel unique in all this skins that are avalible for your preference you just described?

 

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3 minutes ago, Tor said:

And how is going wirth that? Did you manage to stand out in crowd and feel unique in all this skins that are avalible for your preference you just described?


Barking up the wrong tree, man. I was talking about people who want to stand out. That ain't me.
I never tried anything :D For the last 15 years I have been wearing studded leather armour and a helmet I made. Really couldn't GAF about what my toon looks like, as long as it's kinda fitting in with what I deem is sort of realistically medieval/fantasy looking. 

 

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I have a clear idea why a lot of people keep coming here and saying "you don't want bunny ears, that's stupid!" when the OP started the post with literally THIS proposition and question:

Are you guys aiming at giving this game with no cashop those cheap abandonware MMO cashop vibes or what's the purpose?

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6 hours ago, Rauros said:

I have a clear idea why a lot of people keep coming here and saying "you don't want bunny ears, that's stupid!" when the OP started the post with literally THIS proposition and question:

Are you guys aiming at giving this game with no cashop those cheap abandonware MMO cashop vibes or what's the purpose?

But see thats logical and we can't have a logical conversation people have to degrade it into crap

I made it clear I hope that it does not happen to wurm like it has happened to so many older mmo's what started out as small for them became a big change to their games only to end up fading away completely and that I do not want to happen and that is exactly the trend I myself see personally happening here with some  of the cosmetics being released.
I have gone through and watched other games that I loved do exactly what wurm is starting to do now hence why I wrote what I wrote and why the fear is there as just like in those other games there are people who like the few cosmetics that come out first they make fun of those who are wary and a few years down the track its too late and then the developers go "Well we can't just get rid of them" even though they can and it would be a good move they are just scared of upsetting their cash cows more then the general player base and thus are left with neither in the end.

I just hope wurm wont go down that route as others have gone but only time will tell.

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12 hours ago, Rauros said:

 

I have a clear idea why a lot of people keep coming here and saying "you don't want bunny ears, that's stupid!" when the OP started the post with literally THIS proposition and question:

Are you guys aiming at giving this game with no cashop those cheap abandonware MMO cashop vibes or what's the purpose?

 

Good news! If that’s the honest question then there’s a real simple answer: no

 

see, cosmetic items are not cheap abandonware cash shop vibes because the entire premise is wrong.

 

when a game shifts its monetisation to prioritising cosmetic sales, development slows down. Your concept of abandonware lies somewhere between active development and maintenance mode, and the cash shop is only a small hint at the bigger picture.

 

usually maintenance mode cosmetics utilise a cash shop, vanity item lootbox, or paid items that get recycled. They’re usually the thing to look out for: does the same Christmas cosmetic come out at Christmas every year? Does the game prioritise big purchases of vanity items? Are updates few and far between mainly focused on fixing crashes and nothing about new content?

 

they’re all the signs of abandonware. And Wurm fails to tick any of those boxes.

 

low quality vanity items refers to the look and feel of the item, does the texture resolution match, does the model fit well on the character, does it feel like a part of them? wurms bunny ears tick all three!

 

there are zero indicators that any of this is signifying any downturn in Wurm, this was given for free to everyone in the game.

 

furthermore, Wurm has never taken itself seriously, and never shied away from making fun of itself either.

 

it’s fine to not like the ears because they’re not your taste, but trying to insinuate its an outlier in the history of wurms content is incorrect at best, disingenuous at worst.

 

let it be, you don’t like the ears. Send me yours and I’ll take them off you 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Archaed said:

let it be, you don’t like the ears. Send me yours and I’ll take them off you 

So he isn't allowed to worry and fear and share his opinion and should just let it be and get over it and ignore his worry of history repeating itself?

To your other points you are trying to put it all into tiny boxes so that you can go "this doesn't fit wurm exactly so this isn't correct" and on and on you go

Take for example how you explain abandonware while claiming it is the other persons view on what abandonware is, in your words it is developers stopping updating the game and adding in purely cosmetics for money before what i assume is fleeing a sinking ship with a big pay check.
But the abandonware games that typically have the issue that is starting to show don't follow that road at all

They instead start off innocently they release a cosmetic that is outside of the usual theme and people like, a few more are released then development goes on as usual then a while later some more and more and more and more and it goes from 3-8 items to around 20 to around 40 all the while the game is still going but people have started to complain.
People ahve started to leave because old issues are left unfixed for years on end while new features and cosmetics are pumped out to try and stem the angry voices by hiding it in waves of happy ones.
This can last for like 5-6 years but by the end of it the player base of such a game has dropped from 40-50k to sub 1k and in the end the developers decide to start merging servers, cancel releases, letting to staff so moderation team shrinks to nothing(wurm has a benefit of them being free labor) updates grow rarer, cheating is left rampant due to lack of ingame effort to stem the tide making more people leave.
So the developers decide that with their game dying why not just release whatever they want and thus some decide to go silent let the game bleed before attempting a big release with lots of fanfare to try and bring back players old and new alike.
Others start trying to fix things trying to save what little is possible or talk to who ever owns the rights if a community run version could be released, and yet others decide to focus on what makes the most money and keep releasing power creep and cosmetics until their income is gone.

You might or might not see this happen I don't know what games you play but I have seen a lot of small to medium sized games from both the english speaking and asian markets go through this so so so often where the game gets sold things seem to get better then cosmetics creep in, new ownerships expects unrealistic growth but their product isn't living up to it so more radical things are tried resulting in the death of the product they brought, it is a tale that has been going on since the onset of online gaming.

A lot of the games that I can think of that fell into a state of abandonware milk however much you can out of it did not have predatory practices like lootboxes or a mtx shop the size of path of exile or others with thousands of cosmetics in them, these games were like wurm they had something going and it was a fine balance between the developers vision of the game and what the general population wanted but it was the advent of out of place features like out of place cosmetics or mini games or things that just made no sense in the game that flipped the balance into favor of abandoning the sinking ship, for the average person to give in to the struggle and realization that the game they fell in love with is no more that the current developers are out of touch.

I do not want wurm to go down that route but since 2016-2017 it has been getting worse not just cosmetics but overall with a clear disconnect between dev and player and its sitting in a fine balance right now where people are holding out hope for a better wurm for the things that they said they are working on to be great things but just like with those other games it only takes a few things to tip that balance for the worse and cosmetics hold a lot of power on making or breaking the vibe of a game.

And I don't mean just bunny ears or santa hats or rabbit backpacks or snowman individually I'm talking about everything combined wurm has had this more rustic simple feel to its art design with some fantasy elements some medieval, some scandinavian and some of its own making its a fine balance but if the rate at which weirder out of touch cosmetics start flooding the place it could very well tip that balance out of whack.

Imagine you just started playing wurm you are exploring the world you are enjoying the more simple yet relaxing vibe the nature gives you, you see some deeds they look great and come across some people on horse back or wagon and you go "I love this" then you see it full black dyed armor, pmk wagon purple ql 95 oil lamp miniature sun with a witch hat and skeleton mask.
You go "oh okay some interesting art choices but okay its a old game its a given, you go on and you start to see more weird things that are meant to be "unique" people wearing even weirder costumes while wearing bath towels for capes riding on a wagon that looks like a pumpkin with 2 skeleton horses and 2 unicorns with flaming eyes and the person on it looking like a nightmare straight out of a children's first drawing book and you go "nope I'm not dealing with this the game might be great but no"

We have all seen players quit because of the way wurm looks now heck I'm sure there are plenty of games out there you won't play because you don't like the look of them and that's the thing, wurm's visuals are already simplistic and dated they already are the reason why some just cant enjoy the game but adding in more and more and more cosmetics will just make it reach a point where even those who would like the look of wurm are turned away and those who do play end up fed up with all the crap that is added and decide to leave.

Wurm had a lot of people leave when rolf wanted freedom to be a thing and sprung it on us out of the blue and we never recovered from that then wurm's steam release was lackluster as there was no follow up from the team what so ever no advertising no major changes just a show of incompetence with lag and bugs and countless players who played for 1-2 months max a golden opportunity thrown away due to miss management and missed goals.
Wurm is at that time where most developers had they been paid staff all along would give up instead here we just cycle out the free staff pass the torch to someone else and hope they can do it better but it gives the players hope that we have that flexibility that if our current staff burns out that we can swap them out easier instead of just be left ignored.

But cosmetics that do not fit the game can become the spark that lights a fire that this time around will not go out, you where there when tensions were rising before you know all to well that wurm has had multiple make or break it points in the last decade and it is now finally calming down so it is not the time to start slowly opening the flood gates with weird cosmetics like it has been the last few years its time to focus on the game more fix the things add useful items in that actually do something besides sit in a chest or an alt after the novelty wears off spend more time on creating better art at higher resolution.

There is so much that can be done that is not snowman and bunnies and pumpkin shoulder pads and bath towel capes, wurm can do so much better so we should voice our opinions we should voice our frustration and fear and i know they fell on deaf ears with you but it did not with others so I hope that with the current staff in place they will provide and bring about a better wurm.

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They’re not falling on deaf ears, you’re just mistaking the five loud people to be the majority. Reality is most people don’t care

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i for once like that Wurm has some seasonal cosmetic, we need more of that, its not like everyone running around with bunny ears all year long, i barely see anyone with pumpkin shoulder pad or snowman hat.

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If you and your opinions about how something should be and what people really think about that something, was evern remotely relevant or accurate, there would have been significant positive before and after change and not to spiral going down. And perhaps kept the job

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9 hours ago, Archaed said:

snip

 

 

Another one taking down on the "you don't like the ears", ignoring even the first question posted.
Obviously a long post that still further the road of those who ignore others because they believe they're right, and did not even bothered to read, as is clear here. Thanks.

Let me add just one point:
 

Quote

you’re just mistaking the five loud people to be the majority. Reality is most people don’t care


If they do not care, it's not my problem, i and the others who care have all the rights to show we care, and if the majority do not, then they already expressed their position: they have none. Removing the items, then, should not be a problem for them, and i did not stated i don't like them even once, as i already said and you did not even bothered to read, before expressing yourself on what we are saying here.

 

Edited by Rauros
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 I just found this thread a little late.  I cried when I read that the Easter Bunny died.

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Personally I'll be more concerned with the cash shop problem, when we actually have such a shop.

 

The shop we have is minimal at best, primitive even.

 

Character account management is even worse.

 

Granted there's plenty of games with plenty of abandoned-ware-selling-outlandish-models shops, so the fear is easy to empathize with.

 

New World's rainbow lion to cite one example

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