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Darklords

Defiance PMKS March 7th

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2 hours ago, Trash said:

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So what's your point? Many JK players called it a problem and made suggestions to nerf the ###### out of starter areas. My issue is with these proposals to allow things like 6hr raid windows, I believe players in your group are making completely selfish ridiculous suggestions.   

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@Darklords
I would like to chime in on your discussion question

Quote
  • Discussion of penalties for living on the starter island, we currently offer a lot of protection for living on them but we really never added any negative sides to balance that out. Would love to see peoples suggestions on things they think would make sense here.

 

Before I get started, note that I did not go through the currently 10 pages of posts of different players opinions and view points.  I am not a forums surfer looking for the next post to comment on.  To my own fault I don't watch the Wurm updates and dev team, so I don't know what yalls original intent for the starter islands were. Lastly I could possibly echo some or offend others with my discussion points to you because again i did not read all the forum posts from players.  A little context, I am an off and on Wurm Player, I am a avid pvp gamer in the vast amount of pvp oriented games and always find my self returning to Wurm wishing for a solid PvP experience.  Lastly I currently have a 1 month old character on Defiance.

 

My question is,  what was the actual intent of the starter islands and is it actually achieving its goal?  With the discussion being posed I would conclude that the feeling is that its working to well and no one wants to leave the islands.   I feel the starter Island was an great start point, and after spending a week or so on it, I moved on to the mainland.   in my opinion the real question would be, what might cause me or other new players to return to the starter islands to live?  Living on the mainland has resulted in what I would expect from a PvP game, that is the fear of getting killed. (this doesn't come from the monsters)  This should be a factor of all PvP games, and is for the starter island just at a lower chance.  What I can see as being a discouragement causing players to return to a "safer" place is the character power disparity.  In my experience everyone at some point wants to feel like they have a chance to win and will make goals to do this.  The longer the server is up the more powerful accounts get leaving new players with the catch up task.  The task of catching up does not involve playing the game, it involves power grinding certain ways to build certain stats to just become viable. If you don't play the catchup game you become the cattle that the aged accounts feed on. In my opinion It does not seem to be a productive way of keeping players that wish to play and pvp if that is a goal for the defiance server. 

 

All in all this is what seems to be the dynamic that causes people to quit for a new shinny pvp game or return and live on starter islands causing them to no longer be used for their original purpose.  I am sure there is also people that abuse the system, but sadly that is inevitable with any type of support system in pvp games.  my last opinion is, starter islands aren't necessarily the things to put in question but by chance revisit a new pvp revamp discussion and then come back and revisit the starter islands. 

I hope that this can add to some of the things you and the dev team are discussing, and I openly acknowledge that I did not purpose suggestions and only offered my limited perspective.  Id be happy to purpose my suggestions at a later time since they are more towards a pvp revamp then the starter island penalties. Thanks and good luck in your decisions.

Edited by Worlaor
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If your goal is to incentivize people to leave starter a good suggestion would be to give everyone the Intellect of the Enlightened perk (25% extra skill gain) while off of starter and don't allow it to work on starter islands. This would provide huge incentives to leave starter by providing the incentive of more skill gain without alienating players who are unable to leave starter. 

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25 minutes ago, Anglomango said:

If your goal is to incentivize people to leave starter a good suggestion would be to give everyone the Intellect of the Enlightened perk (25% extra skill gain) while off of starter and don't allow it to work on starter islands. This would provide huge incentives to leave starter by providing the incentive of more skill gain without alienating players who are unable to leave starter. 

I mean this would be enough incentive for me to not live on starter islands anyway 

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They are looking for suggestions to incentivize people to move off the starter island to the mainland. This can only be accomplished in 2 ways, penalizing people for living on the starter island, or rewarding people for living on the mainland. Everyone needs to stop being so offended by suggestions. Most of the ideas are not meant to run new players off the server or make the vets have an advantage. The penalties and rewards would affect every kingdom the same way. Jk may be the strongest kingdom currently, but they started as the smallest, losing fight after fight. The state of the game is always changing and opinions should be made for the health of the future, not the state of the present. 

Edited by JamesSnow
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I like the challenge server idea. Making the PvP server more of a metagame about the kingdomes with less individual hardcore PvP (still more pvp then a PvE server) and the challeng server one that is like the current PvP with constetn resets to even out the playing fild. I wonder if its possible to explore this idea. I personal love the freedom the PvP server gives compare to the PvE one. On the other side when ever I play on it it feels like it would only work if every side had like 200-300 aktiv players and a lot of the mechaniks and balancing break down with low population.

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6 hours ago, JamesSnow said:

Most of the ideas are not meant to run new players off the server or make the vets have an advantage.

 

Intentional or not, this is exactly what the vast majority of the suggestions from the main JK group would do

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1 hour ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

Intentional or not, this is exactly what the vast majority of the suggestions from the main JK group would do

why?

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2 hours ago, Firecat said:

remove local lists

 

this something I can get behind, wanted this for many, many years

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Most of the suggestions now are outside the scope of the thread.  Let’s get back on topic fellow wurmians.


mild suggestion for starters:

 

1)No chest spawns

2) no HOTA spawns in the non-PMK zone as the zone could be considered an extension of starter

Edited by DADLER

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If there is or has been any group that used the starter as a safe base whilst winning lots of fights / Hota / Depo / Missions on the mainland, then there would be a point to raise about starter areas. There isn't and has not been. 

There are new and casual players that aren't getting into PvP. We think instability in the kingdoms has not helped, PMKs and King changes hopefully help.


If any a 10%+ skillgain outside starter or something like that. Restrictions will make people play even more on freedom.

Edited by Omar

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6 hours ago, DADLER said:

1)No chest spawns

 

I agree with Omar that more restrictions would be bad.  However, I think this would be ok.  Except what I think would be even better, is allow them to still spawn on starter, but limit them to only 1 hour of sleep bonus, and can't have rare bones.  

 

Quote

2) no HOTA spawns in the non-PMK zone as the zone could be considered an extension of starter

 

Except it's not an extension of starter, it's an area to give the template kingdom some breathing room.  Plus as I said before this is completely unnecessary.  You need to capture 4 battle camps to win hota, making 1 that happens to spawn kinda close to starter totally irrelevant

 

This is a perfect example of a buff that you guys want to give yourself.  You already have a huge advantage with HotA and Depot's because you control the middle of the map.  By cutting off even more of the outside where they can spawn, you are forcing them to spawn even closer to you, making it that much easier for you, and that much more difficult for everybody else.

Edited by Sinnjinn

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37 minutes ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

I agree with Omar that more restrictions would be bad.  However, I think this would be ok.  Except what I think would be even better, is allow them to still spawn on starter, but limit them to only 1 hour of sleep bonus, and can't have rare bones.  

 

 

Except it's not an extension of starter, it's an area to give the template kingdom some breathing room.  Plus as I said before this is completely unnecessary.  You need to capture 4 battle camps to win hota, making 1 that happens to spawn kinda close to starter totally irrelevant

 

This is a perfect example of a buff that you guys want to give yourself.  You already have a huge advantage with HotA and Depot's because you control the middle of the map.  By cutting off even more of the outside where they can spawn, you are forcing them to spawn even closer to you, making it that much easier for you, and that much more difficult for everybody else.

i feel like the chests much like the mob powder and depots etc should all be just incentives to go out into the actual world.

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12 hours ago, DADLER said:

2) no HOTA spawns in the non-PMK zone as the zone could be considered an extension of starter


No.

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On 2/28/2023 at 1:04 PM, Darklords said:

We will be allowing conversion of existing deeds that the PMK was not founded on by having the entire village in the new kingdoms influence and asking them to join.

 


Can we please have clarification on this? Currently there are restrictions on converting enemy deeds to stop abuse. Will PMKs be allowed to convert any deed, anywhere?
 

Edited by Omar

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On 2/28/2023 at 12:04 AM, Darklords said:
  • Discussion of penalties for living on the starter island, we currently offer a lot of protection for living on them but we really never added any negative sides to balance that out. Would love to see peoples suggestions on things they think would make sense here.

I'm not sure why this is even a priority. 

 

Groups have always tried to build deeds further out from the starter area in order to be closer to PvP, HoTA, area control, etc. The only people living on the starter areas are those unable to compete on the main land for whatever reason. 

 

Making the starter island less inhabitable won't make these people play on the mainland, it would just make them move to freedom or stop playing altogether.

 

The only suggestion I've read that sounds somewhat reasonable is to introduce a skill bonus when outside of the starter area. On that note, I still advocate for a skill bonus on the entire Defiance server to encourage people to skill there instead of freedom. But perhaps this skill bonus could be increased when outside of the starter area. Whatever this bonus was however, it would have to be big enough to compete with the "home comforts" of freedom. I'm not sure 10% would even do it.

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2 hours ago, BrokenSanity said:

I'm not sure why this is even a priority. 

 

Groups have always tried to build deeds further out from the starter area in order to be closer to PvP, HoTA, area control, etc. The only people living on the starter areas are those unable to compete on the main land for whatever reason. 

 

Making the starter island less inhabitable won't make these people play on the mainland, it would just make them move to freedom or stop playing altogether.

 

The only suggestion I've read that sounds somewhat reasonable is to introduce a skill bonus when outside of the starter area. On that note, I still advocate for a skill bonus on the entire Defiance server to encourage people to skill there instead of freedom. But perhaps this skill bonus could be increased when outside of the starter area. Whatever this bonus was however, it would have to be big enough to compete with the "home comforts" of freedom. I'm not sure 10% would even do it.

So what you are saying is that new players should be even worse of?

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4-6 JK killed almost 18 people, the devs can figure out themselves what to do themselves. If 18 people can't kill 4-6 people because of a severe gap in stats then idk what else to tell ya. Instead of asking players, do your job and fix it yourself. It's actually pretty absurd that you guys just let ###### like this happen. 

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dying in leather to make a point, smh, sounds like you setup your group to lose

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6 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

It's actually pretty absurd that you guys just let ###### like this happen. 

Yeah how dare the devs let... players grind up good accounts and win with them..? Wait, what?

 

So many different ways you could improve at the game and instead you opt to cry on the forums

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9 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

dying in leather to make a point, smh, sounds like you setup your group to lose

 

6 minutes ago, Synjor said:

Yeah how dare the devs let... players grind up good accounts and win with them..? Wait, what?

 

So many different ways you could improve at the game and instead you opt to cry on the forums

The gear that I'm wearing solely shouldn't matter. Basic math tells you that 18 people should basically wipe the floor on 4-6 people, not the other way around.

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Just now, Carmichael said:

 

The gear that I'm wearing solely shouldn't matter. Basic math tells you that 18 people should basically wipe the floor on 4-6 people, not the other way around.

 

yes of course, 25 brand new accounts with 1 fight skill and 20 body strength should be able to kill 12 accounts at 50 strength while also wearing the worst possible armor due to its base dr and weakness to the most common two hander its basic math

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1 minute ago, Carmichael said:

The gear that I'm wearing solely shouldn't matter. Basic math tells you that 18 people should basically wipe the floor on 4-6 people, not the other way around.

Ah yes, Wurm Online; the game of basic math

 

Again, so many different ways to improve...

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Just now, platinumteef said:

 

yes of course, 25 brand new accounts with 1 fight skill and 20 body strength should be able to kill 12 accounts at 50 strength while also wearing the worst possible armor due to its base dr and weakness to the most common two hander its basic math

18 accounts with 30+ body str and 70+ fightskill in chain, plate and leather armor all 80+ ql. And you're telling me that that's not okay. Yall need to take a step back and seriously think about it

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