Sign in to follow this  
Darklords

Defiance PMKS March 7th

Recommended Posts

41 minutes ago, Omar said:


And a kingdom like MR with like 2 good players in it? Just throw them to the wolves...?  Sorry but any ideas like this is bad, I doubt it would even be considered, they want to protect new players and weaker kingdoms.

 

MR is obviously better suited to living on starter given the state that its presently in, but if they were to build up massively then there ought to be an incentive for the majority of their group to move off starter in the future. It's clear that geographical concerns alone are not enough to get groups off starter, and the prospect of remaining there indefinitely is simply too attractive for anyone but the most powerful PvP group.

 

Wurm has both perceived and actual metas - imo the idea of bunching up in a small area like the starter area is a "perceived" meta that is actually fundamentally wrong and misguided, but nonetheless what risk-averse players will do once they've already sunk a lot of time into building up a base there. There has to be ways in which players are forced to create at least a small outpost off starter to get what they want for their starter deed, because this is the most viable hook to get them into a position of safety on the mainland and eventually build up a viable fortification around it.

 

I think a lot of players are strongly attached to their false metas and often need quite a firm kick to do something else. Evidently there needs to be a balance so that people can actually get a foothold off starter without being curbstomped, but it's hard to identify what that is. 

Edited by Ols

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's make PVP more pvp not less, remove raid windows. ty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Trash said:

Let's make PVP more pvp not less, remove raid windows. ty

 

this kills the pvp server

 

Some people have jobs, families, and lives outside Wurm. The game has to respect that fact.

Edited by Ols
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I know I'm part of "the group" and this will be taken as trying to keep the underdogs down but I really believe starter kingdoms should NOT have kings or titles.  Often times titles aren't given or used by newer players and no reason for experienced players on starter to have access to them or the king gear. This also incentivizes groups to form PMK's to get access to these things.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rockmodd said:

So I know I'm part of "the group" and this will be taken as trying to keep the underdogs down but I really believe starter kingdoms should NOT have kings or titles.  Often times titles aren't given or used by newer players and no reason for experienced players on starter to have access to them or the king gear. This also incentivizes groups to form PMK's to get access to these things.

 

But why incentivise PMKs? There's no specific reason for doing so. They already announced that the appointment and challenge of kings in template kingdoms will change. PMKs are also inaccessible to new players, so the issue is not resolved with your suggestion.

 

Tbh the more extreme solution would be to simply remove or rework most of the titles. The idea that the priest titles have to be rotated around the group to help everyone do their channeling grind is already a very silly meta. A lot of the other ones are broken and have been for many years.

Edited by Ols

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ols said:

 

MR is obviously better suited to living on starter given the state that its presently in, but if they were to build up massively then there ought to be an incentive for the majority of their group to move off starter in the future. It's clear that geographical concerns alone are not enough to get groups off starter, and the prospect of remaining there indefinitely is simply too attractive for anyone but the most powerful PvP group.

 

Wurm has both perceived and actual metas - imo the idea of bunching up in a small area like the starter area is a "perceived" meta that is actually fundamentally wrong and misguided, but nonetheless what risk-averse players will do once they've already sunk a lot of time into building up a base there. There has to be ways in which players are forced to create at least a small outpost off starter to get what they want for their starter deed, because this is the most viable hook to get them into a position of safety on the mainland and eventually build up a viable fortification around it.

 

I think a lot of players are strongly attached to their false metas and often need quite a firm kick to do something else. Evidently there needs to be a balance so that people can actually get a foothold off starter without being curbstomped, but it's hard to identify what that is. 

This comment shows how outdated you are with the goings on of defiance!! MR have more deeds of starter than both BL and JK!

 

My previous comment about high end gear was also not a moan at the fact your to scared to wear good gear, but that of what’s the point of changing the rate at which it is improved if you are never gonna wear good gear anyway?!?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Pnutp said:

This comment shows how outdated you are with the goings on of defiance!! MR have more deeds of starter than both BL and JK!

 

So what's the problem? Clearly there isn't an issue with people forever living on starter if that's the case. It feels like a load of people just sit in their castles and moan that the enemy isn't instigating fights where they want to take them. If you want to fight MR then go fight MR.

 

4 minutes ago, Pnutp said:

My previous comment about high end gear was also not a moan at the fact your to scared to wear good gear, but that of what’s the point of changing the rate at which it is improved if you are never gonna wear good gear anyway?!?

49fe93.jpg?a465936

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remove res stones and change the 70 faith mag res stone and make every item in your inventory 1/100 5/100 chance to drop and remove grave stones. Boom everyone is running around in better gear.

 

Not including artifacts ***

Edited by Carmichael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

Remove res stones and change the 70 faith mag res stone and make every item in your inventory 1/100 5/100 chance to drop and remove grave stones. Boom everyone is running around in better gear.

 

Not including artifacts ***

this would make the pvp really boring and remove alot of the risk/reward

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Sneeze said:

this would make the pvp really boring and remove alot of the risk/reward

Not really. While you still risk you have a chance to keep some of your items. Plus most of the time you fight it's more the fight skill and affinities then the actual drops. Defence is a stand alone server with no connection to pve aside from skills perhaps a double affinity gain chance, double rarity chance would make people want to be on the pvp server more. 

 

That being said with the chance to get sleep powder for just hunting I don't see why more people aren't out hunting all day everyday. It takes a few hours to regear so you don't really risk anything from dying.

Edited by Atndy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Sneeze said:

this would make the pvp really boring and remove alot of the risk/reward

 

It would make PvP about fighting other players and not about the loot.  I would make the chance of drop much higher...maybe 1/50.  Or better yet, have a set number of items that WILL drop.  like you know you'll lose 4 or 5 items when you die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

 Or better yet, have a set number of items that WILL drop.  like you know you'll lose 4 or 5 items when you die.

wouldn't people just fill there inventory with junk to increase the chances of losing stuff they dont care about?

 

i just think its pretty silly. it would also just remove the incentive to keep making gear or improving gear. you just get your one good set and maintain it occasionally having to replace a piece of it maybe.

 

its also like with the current imp to 70 bonus how bad is regearing? unless you are using moonmetal/drake/scale kinda stuff just replacing normal gear is super fast. at this point casts also arent bad to replace either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Darklords said:

We will be allowing conversion of existing deeds that the PMK was not founded on by having the entire village in the new kingdoms influence and asking them to join.

@DarklordsPlease can you explain this? How can you put a deed into a PMK influence? Would the mechanics of the deed not mean you wont be able to put the village in influence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also redo the rank system. Every 4 (1 quarter) months it resets and the top 10 get rewards that are more cosmetic or even small amounts of drake/scale or introduce a new armor that is light and equal to something like steel plate.

 

Also with the 1/100-5/100 drop system make it so 8 items will drop. So it's an 8 (full armor set worth) item pool guaranteed plus anything outside of it will drop at the 1-5/100 rate. You can double the weapon/armor/shield chances as well. Or simply just make the stuff on your paper doll like 1/25 chance to drop as a whole. There are so many variations that can be done. If you want people to play in end game gear and it be worth taking it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

Also with the 1/100-5/100 drop system make it so 8 items will drop. So it's an 8 (full armor set worth) item pool guaranteed plus anything outside of it will drop at the 1-5/100 rate. You can double the weapon/armor/shield chances as well. Or simply just make the stuff on your paper doll like 1/25 chance to drop as a whole. There are so many variations that can be done. If you want people to play in end game gear and it be worth taking it out.

 

while I totally agree that something like this would make the game better, Wurm has been full-loot since it's inception and I seriously doubt it will change.  You're wasting your creative energy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very disappointed the devs don't understand anything about maintaining a pvp server or community.

 

The suggestions made here, to drive people off starter, are about victimizing them to give a small group of veterans more pvp gameplay. Thats not how to grow a healthy pvp community. There already are penalties for starter deeds, most people wouldn't be on starter if there wasn't this massive power imbalance. The starter protection is used to offset the existing power imbalance. Just look back at the first year when all kingdoms were having plenty deeds off starter, before the power imbalance started driving people off and  back onto starter.

 

If you want a continuously working pvp server you have to rebalance and break the power imbalance, not reenforce it. You have to make it possible for new people that are coming to the server actually making kills. The way its currently balanced just is channeling ever more power to a small group of veterans. Newcomers die a few times and go away. Its a toxic system, the result is a dead server.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gavaldor said:

I'm very disappointed the devs don't understand anything about maintaining a pvp server or community.

 

The suggestions made here, to drive people off starter, are about victimizing them to give a small group of veterans more pvp gameplay. Thats not how to grow a healthy pvp community. There already are penalties for starter deeds, most people wouldn't be on starter if there wasn't this massive power imbalance. The starter protection is used to offset the existing power imbalance. Just look back at the first year when all kingdoms were having plenty deeds off starter, before the power imbalance started driving people off and  back onto starter.

 

If you want a continuously working pvp server you have to rebalance and break the power imbalance, not reenforce it. You have to make it possible for new people that are coming to the server actually making kills. The way its currently balanced just is channeling ever more power to a small group of veterans. Newcomers die a few times and go away. Its a toxic system, the result is a dead server.


I think not being able to deed right outside a starter zone is a good one.  That’s what the current suggested PMK map shows.  What does “breaking a power imbalance” look like? I think you have to be careful with the choice of words here.  Does breaking the power imbalance involve punishing people who put in work and time to get where they are today?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

while I totally agree that something like this would make the game better, Wurm has been full-loot since it's inception and I seriously doubt it will change.  You're wasting your creative energy

the full loot system only works if you can easily remake gear within seconds. now I'll compare this game to mortal online. which is a very successful pvp game that is full loot as well. It literally takes me 15 seconds to remake a whole steel gear set and weapons at perfect ql. in wurm, for me to have a set of armor that is actually good. can take me 3 hours if I want to max it out at 90ql. it takes more time in a game like mortal to gather the resources to make that set of armor. full loot in wurm vs the time it takes to make a set of gear just doesn't make sense fully.

 

6 minutes ago, DADLER said:


I think not being able to deed right outside a starter zone is a good one.  That’s what the current suggested PMK map shows.  What does “breaking a power imbalance” look like? I think you have to be careful with the choice of words here.  Does breaking the power imbalance involve punishing people who put in work and time to get where they are today?  

So I think what he means is basically not allowing someone who can basically wreck a whole kingdom while only getting a scratch. Now yes, some people bust their asses off to get where they are now. But they still shouldn't be able to take on more than 2 people on their own basically whilst barely dropping below 50% health.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, DADLER said:


I think not being able to deed right outside a starter zone is a good one.  That’s what the current suggested PMK map shows.  What does “breaking a power imbalance” look like? I think you have to be careful with the choice of words here.  Does breaking the power imbalance involve punishing people who put in work and time to get where they are today?  

 

Not to put words in Gavaldor's mouth, but what I thought when I read his very inciteful post, was that he is talking about the group, not an individual.  So you don't punish an individual for how strong he might be, but if PvP is ever really gonna return to Defiance in a meaningful way, you need to somehow stop all of the strongest players from being in the same group.

 

But honestly while I agree, it's easier said then done.  I would be against the GM's simply telling people they can't play together.  So just as we should be incentivizing people to move off starter rather then punishing them for staying, we need to somehow incentivize people away from just joining or being part of the strongest group.  However, I don't even have a shitty idea how to do this, let alone a good one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

Not to put words in Gavaldor's mouth, but what I thought when I read his very inciteful post, was that he is talking about the group, not an individual.  So you don't punish an individual for how strong he might be, but if PvP is ever really gonna return to Defiance in a meaningful way, you need to somehow stop all of the strongest players from being in the same group.

 

But honestly while I agree, it's easier said then done.  I would be against the GM's simply telling people they can't play together.  So just as we should be incentivizing people to move off starter rather then punishing them for staying, we need to somehow incentivize people away from just joining or being part of the strongest group.  However, I don't even have a shitty idea how to do this, let alone a good one.

I mean you can give influence more meaning whenever it comes to PMK's. for that purpose. even though it's probably a shitty idea. lowering the amount of players needed to start a pmk to like 10-15 people. and each percent after 3% increases your player slots. just need to balance out template kingdoms at that point with something else. so it also gives incentive to make a pmk

Edited by Carmichael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

I mean you can give influence more meaning whenever it comes to PMK's. for that purpose. even though it's probably a shitty idea. lowering the amount of players needed to start a pmk to like 10-15 people. and each percent after 3% increases your player slots. just need to balance out template kingdoms at that point with something else. so it also gives incentive to make a pmk

 

While that's better then my (non-existent) idea, I think limiting PMKs to a certain number of people doesn't fix the situation at all....they'll simply make multiple PMK's but still fight together.  However it IS an idea, and not really a shitty one.  maybe forcing PMK's to be smaller groups will EVENTUALLY lead to them not working together anymore.  maybe always seeing 'friends' in red will change attitudes.  I don't really see any downsides of this...except it really hinders groups that have large amounts of 'support' players and very few 'fighters'. hmm...it also makes it more difficult for groups like BL where superior numbers are their strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

While that's better then my (non-existent) idea, I think limiting PMKs to a certain number of people doesn't fix the situation at all....they'll simply make multiple PMK's but still fight together.  However it IS an idea, and not really a shitty one.  maybe forcing PMK's to be smaller groups will EVENTUALLY lead to them not working together anymore.  maybe always seeing 'friends' in red will change attitudes.  I don't really see any downsides of this...except it really hinders groups that have large amounts of 'support' players and very few 'fighters'. hmm...it also makes it more difficult for groups like BL where superior numbers are their strength.


Whats the situation that needs fixing exactly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

the full loot system only works if you can easily remake gear within seconds. now I'll compare this game to mortal online. which is a very successful pvp game that is full loot as well. It literally takes me 15 seconds to remake a whole steel gear set and weapons at perfect ql. in wurm, for me to have a set of armor that is actually good. can take me 3 hours if I want to max it out at 90ql. it takes more time in a game like mortal to gather the resources to make that set of armor. full loot in wurm vs the time it takes to make a set of gear just doesn't make sense fully.

 

So I think what he means is basically not allowing someone who can basically wreck a whole kingdom while only getting a scratch. Now yes, some people bust their asses off to get where they are now. But they still shouldn't be able to take on more than 2 people on their own basically whilst barely dropping below 50% health.

also in mortal loot is not really a rewarding or exciting thing to get off people. also the combat of mortal is very different. gear/stats dont have the influence they do in this game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DADLER said:


Whats the situation that needs fixing exactly?

 

It wouldn't be Wurm forums without a thousand solutions in search of a problem.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a character merge from SFI to defiance via portal would probably help solve the issues that are arising, with the great experience and leadership that panda and kj would provide, paired with the exceptional news reports coming from capibara the server would be in a much healthier state

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this