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Darklords

Defiance PMKS March 7th

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1 minute ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

Just out of curiosity, why would you be against something that boosts the losers of a fight, while changing nothing for the winner? (except maybe looting better quality gear on average)

This would be a good suggestions if people actually wore the good gear that they have! Why allow people to create throw away gear so easily when it is hard enough to retrieve good stolen gear. I know of at least 2 drake sets and 1 scale set in HoTS. At least 2 Drake sets and 1 scale set in your group and I have never seen anyone wear them. What’s point having good gear if your not gonna wear it and just want to be able to mass create throw away gear and use it as an excuse?

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1 minute ago, platinumteef said:

 

because I was against the initial boost to 70ql too, just as I'm against 30 second breed timers for horses, attrition is part of the game whether people like it or not 😕

its one of the better parts about the game really, knowing that you are able to chip away at an opponents reserves 

 

Ahh...so the end goal IS to get people to quit playing.  Noted.

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3 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

because I was against the initial boost to 70ql too, just as I'm against 30 second breed timers for horses, attrition is part of the game whether people like it or not 😕

its one of the better parts about the game really, knowing that you are able to chip away at an opponents reserves 

 

So you guys actually dont want more pvp. You just want to dominate and be able to push everyone off the server easier. Fair enough but dont say one thing and preach for another

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We should be suggesting things to make a more healthy server not suggesting things that will continue to drive away players 

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I will be making a Black Light kingdom PM me if interested!

 

r2J7rgf.gif

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Anglomango said:

We should be suggesting things to make a more healthy server not suggesting things that will continue to drive away players 

 

WHOA....slow your roll there.  We don't want any sensible talk like that here.

 

I suggest that we implement a system where as soon as you leave deed, a big beacon like the rift beam appears over your head.  That would promote PvP cause people could find you easier.  In fact, lets just do away with the beam and when you leave your deed you (and all your alts) just POOF and their gear just appears in a nice little pile in the center of the map

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2 hours ago, Anglomango said:

More penalties for living on the starter island is just going to make more people quit pvp 

 

People living on starter don’t play PvP, they play PvE on a PvP server!

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I think we should discuss penalties to pmks. Since you get the added benefit of not having to worry about enemies transfering alts in to your kingdom… pmks get double cost to form, drop deeds and upkeep. Pmks should prob not have any titles but cosmetic ones. Towers should decay 5x faster. Should stop chain winning of hotas/roaming so a pmk can’t win twice in a row. Pmks should simply not have raid windows. If the whole idea for jk to post in any of these threads is simply to give them self more advantages we will soon have ideas passed where they get global casts that perma death accounts and meteorite strike deeds.

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6 minutes ago, feldoh said:

I think we should discuss penalties to pmks. Since you get the added benefit of not having to worry about enemies transfering alts in to your kingdom… pmks get double cost to form, drop deeds and upkeep. Pmks should prob not have any titles but cosmetic ones. Towers should decay 5x faster. Should stop chain winning of hotas/roaming so a pmk can’t win twice in a row. Pmks should simply not have raid windows. If the whole idea for jk to post in any of these threads is simply to give them self more advantages we will soon have ideas passed where they get global casts that perma death accounts and meteorite strike deeds.

Or you could just get better?

Everyone is hating on JK yet we have nothing different to anyone else. 

Edited by Pnutp
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3 minutes ago, feldoh said:

I think we should discuss penalties to pmks. Since you get the added benefit of not having to worry about enemies transfering alts in to your kingdom… pmks get double cost to form, drop deeds and upkeep. Pmks should prob not have any titles but cosmetic ones. Towers should decay 5x faster. Should stop chain winning of hotas/roaming so a pmk can’t win twice in a row. Pmks should simply not have raid windows. If the whole idea for jk to post in any of these threads is simply to give them self more advantages we will soon have ideas passed where they get global casts that perma death accounts and meteorite strike deeds.

Damn I really like these suggestions for pmks big +1 

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another defiance change thread lost to KvK 😿

 

starter islands with their 2h raid windows are a super abusable mistake but if you add penalties for them people will just play on freedom instead. you're already penalized by being on a pvp server and having to take precautions for everything (and that includes being on the winning side too) making it worse won't help, incentives to be off the starter islands is better.

 

reputation system never had a place on a pvp server and it still doesn't. there's already a system for this, if someone is causing harm to your kingdom you kill them. years of the current reputation system doing absolutely nothing to stop inter-kingdom pvp, creating unnecessary GM work and actively breaking pvp occasionally should have shown this lol

 

 

all in all just seems like ignoring the root of problems and doing the most barebone changes to look like there's something happening. guess i'll go dig tar while playing other games with my ex-pvp friends for another two years and hope there's an actual change in the 2025 pvp update (singular)

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is there any need for kingdom titles to work on starter islands? its not a newer player mechanic and the capital is limited to be off of starter right? that could be a new restriction

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Well done once again you guys are outdoing yourself.. By trying to turn defiance into a barren wasteland.. I mean your personal SP and affinity farm. And Darklords? Your green tabard is showing.

Edited by Ism

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2 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

another defiance change thread lost to KvK 😿

 

starter islands with their 2h raid windows are a super abusable mistake but if you add penalties for them people will just play on freedom instead. you're already penalized by being on a pvp server and having to take precautions for everything (and that includes being on the winning side too) making it worse won't help, incentives to be off the starter islands is better.

 

reputation system never had a place on a pvp server and it still doesn't. there's already a system for this, if someone is causing harm to your kingdom you kill them. years of the current reputation system doing absolutely nothing to stop inter-kingdom pvp, creating unnecessary GM work and actively breaking pvp occasionally should have shown this lol

 

 

all in all just seems like ignoring the root of problems and doing the most barebone changes to look like there's something happening. guess i'll go dig tar while playing other games with my ex-pvp friends for another two years and hope there's an actual change in the 2025 pvp update (singular)


It was only a matter of time before the thread was lost to KvK.  Even said it myself, “wait until certain groups wake up for the thread to be derailed.”  Now here we are.   

Edited by DADLER

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You are not supposed to feel safe on a pvp server but sadly, in practice, you need some type of safe zones to allow new players to catch their breath and get their bearings. But when you do that you have veterans taking advantage of the safe haven too.

 

So it's impossible to balance perfectly no matter how much you try. Could make it so the toons in the template kingdom sort of have to graduate in the sense that once they hit a certain skill points ceiling they would be asked to join a pmk of the template kingdom or any pmk. 

 

Could also cap skillgain on the protected area's have like a 70 cap on crafting profession and 50 on characteristics so people wanting to still be in the template kingdom would have to deed outside of the protected area to keep developing their toon or join a pmk.

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Its really a shame to see how short sighted the conversations in these threads become.

 

Edited by Melros

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The important thing to bear in mind with discouraging living on starter is that it is currently only good because of the additional security when you are pushed back. To put this in context HoTS were pushed back to starter last year and then JK successfully raided our capital on starter. Living on starter is much less fun as it is, and we already have to roam off starter for hunting and hota/depots, I personally feel that the goal should be to add more reasons to venture off starter, like holy sites, and naturally deeds will get founded off starter. Capping ore and other materials on starter could add an additional requirement to move around the map to get more ore, I'm also not opposed to increasing deed costs on starter due to the security given.

 

In my mind weakening starter would just make it easier to finish off a kingdom when they are already down. 

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11 hours ago, Savior said:

Do starter islands like Epic was originally set up to be.

 

We don't need new kingdom home servers whilst the existing Epic home servers are still open. Imo its also better not to have a region you can physically travel to and instead should just be a place for people to skill or relax in peace. The starter islands are meant to just be an initial foothold and shouldn't be a place for PvE carebear deeds.

 

Tbh I kinda like the idea of literally just closing Elevation, then allowing people from Defiance to portal to the old Epic home servers with no item transfer in the same way they can portal to NFI. I'd rather make my carebear PvE deed on Affliction (with cross border sailing and raiding turned off) than on a Freedom server. Disable the Epic skill curve stuff and use some formula to reconcile the skills accrued on Epic with those on Freedom. 

 

9 hours ago, DADLER said:

I think it was 50 on epic 

 

It was, which was based off pre-Freedom JKH and MRH I believe. I think 50 might be a bit punishing but there could be some kind of cap. My concern is that it would be hard and potentially divisive to reduce the ql of existing veins in that region, especially ones that were generated by the transmutation item. If it could be done in a reasonably fair way, I'd support it as another measure to try to nudge people off starter.

 

9 hours ago, DADLER said:

I’d agree if the raid window was longer than 2 hours.

 

I think its been established that virtually any deed can  be cracked open in well under 2 hours, even with defenders, regardless of structure quality. Once you get the drain you can just open a mine and disintegrate in, ignoring any mine doors. One possibility would be to make it so that a starter island raid window is a bit longer, but when a raid "begins" according to some kind of metric, it starts a countdown of 2 hours after which the raid window ends prematurely. A similar mechanic could be use to limit the total length of a raid to 4-6 hours off starter, because tbh who really wants to stick around in enemy local for a full 8 hours if its a stalemate?

 

9 hours ago, ViperSnake said:

Restrict max characters per deed more.

 

Why? People will just find ways to circumvent it imo.

 

10 hours ago, Trash said:

Change raid windows  from 6hrs to 12hrs on main land and from 2hrs to 6hrs on starter island.
Remove king/titles from default kingdoms.
 

 

12 hours is excessive imo. My main take is that there should be a difference between the window you can initiate a raid in, and the window you have to complete a raid once its begun. This could be a kind of soft cap, for example with the spirit guards becoming overwhelmingly powerful and more numerous the longer the raid goes on, rather than a specific timeout. Raid windows came in because most people don't want to be "on call" for PvP 24 hours a day, and we need to be respectful of people's time outside Wurm. If the issue is that Americans want to raid Europeans in a timezone better suited to them, then that's exactly what raid windows are trying to prevent. If the enemy raid window is in the middle of night, or when you're at work, then tough luck.

 

11 hours ago, Atndy said:

Two hour windows for "Safety banks" on starter deeds perhaps needs to be extended. 

 

Not an issue that needs resolving. I'm not aware of any starter island deed that is built well enough to be defensible against a significantly better skilled/equipped/numerous group for 2 hours, assuming that group turns up 30+ minutes before the raid window opens to get their trebs and hops set up.

 

9 hours ago, Melros said:

No stone buildings on starter island

 

Based. Introduce mud and cloth walls for a bit of extra variety for the plebians.

 

9 hours ago, Omar said:

Living on the starter island sucks, the deed size limit makes them easier to raid already (stacking deeds close is potentially overpowered).  
No Capital, no Artis etc.
Without the current raiding restrictions our group would have quit the server.

A negative that isn't raiding related would be better, but I can't think of anything 😕   Skill gain limit is a big nope. Many things would push players back to freedom and probably they never return. 
 

 

It should all be item and resource related if at all. Lower crop yields, lower/non-existent forestry yields, lower foraging/botanising yields, lower ql wood, lower ql stone, etc. Skill penalties are a complete non starter as people will just skill on Freedom. Penalties to things like action timers would also have the same effect. Frankly most of this would have little effect, too. If people they can't get a foothold without being curbstomped then they wont leave. With the kind of playerbase we have, we cant really avoid one dominant group emerging that very rarely loses big fights.

 

On the flip side the starter islands should be permanently under the respective kingdom's influence and should spawn myc all over for BL. I feel like JK and MR starters should also have their own "biome" but that's a lot of coding work for something trivial. 

 

9 hours ago, Sneeze said:

Treasure chests probably shouldn't spawn on starters.

 

Agreed. A lot of things shouldn't spawn there. Should should be a list of monsters that wont spawn or travel there. When people go hunting/roaming it should obviously be more lucrative to go off starter, even if they can't making a permanent foothold.

 

  

6 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

reputation system never had a place on a pvp server and it still doesn't. there's already a system for this, if someone is causing harm to your kingdom you kill them. years of the current reputation system doing absolutely nothing to stop inter-kingdom pvp, creating unnecessary GM work and actively breaking pvp occasionally should have shown this lol

 

I agree that its completely pointless. The reputation system was designed around the pre-2009 server setup where bad people were forced to go to Wild and become HOTS (which also didn't work well). Reputation would only really work on a "semi-PVE" model where you can steal or attack people on PvE servers if you really want to but eventually get attacked by tower guards and automatically go on everyone's KoS. Then again, virtually nobody would enjoy such a system in practice.

 

  

4 hours ago, Cipacadrinho said:

You are not supposed to feel safe on a pvp server but sadly, in practice, you need some type of safe zones to allow new players to catch their breath and get their bearings. But when you do that you have veterans taking advantage of the safe haven too.

 

So it's impossible to balance perfectly no matter how much you try. Could make it so the toons in the template kingdom sort of have to graduate in the sense that once they hit a certain skill points ceiling they would be asked to join a pmk of the template kingdom or any pmk. 

 

Could also cap skillgain on the protected area's have like a 70 cap on crafting profession and 50 on characteristics so people wanting to still be in the template kingdom would have to deed outside of the protected area to keep developing their toon or join a pmk.

 

You're right that its difficult and there's no easy answer. I strongly disagree with forcing or strongly incentivising people to join a PMK, though. People should be allowed to play template if they want to. Skillgain caps will not work and will just see people skilling on Freedom which will collapse the pop numbers as other players will assume everyone quit. No functional mechanic to solve this issue can relate to skillgain because its very easy to portal to and from Freedom - a major flaw with Defiance that can't really be solved any longer.

Edited by Ols

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3 hours ago, Cipacadrinho said:

You are not supposed to feel safe on a pvp server but sadly, in practice, you need some type of safe zones to allow new players to catch their breath and get their bearings. But when you do that you have veterans taking advantage of the safe haven too.

 

So it's impossible to balance perfectly no matter how much you try. Could make it so the toons in the template kingdom sort of have to graduate in the sense that once they hit a certain skill points ceiling they would be asked to join a pmk of the template kingdom or any pmk. 

 

Could also cap skillgain on the protected area's have like a 70 cap on crafting profession and 50 on characteristics so people wanting to still be in the template kingdom would have to deed outside of the protected area to keep developing their toon or join a pmk.


And a kingdom like MR with like 2 good players in it? Just throw them to the wolves...? 
I appreciate reading all peoples ideas, nothing personal but sorry any ideas like this is bad, I doubt it would even be considered, they want to protect new players and weaker kingdoms. 

Nerfing starter areas into the ground isn't going to happen. What is it going to achieve anyway, what is the outcome you guys are hoping for, what gameplay change? Or are you lot just trolling? Feels like it.
 

Edited by Omar

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6 hours ago, Pnutp said:

This would be a good suggestions if people actually wore the good gear that they have! Why allow people to create throw away gear so easily when it is hard enough to retrieve good stolen gear. I know of at least 2 drake sets and 1 scale set in HoTS. At least 2 Drake sets and 1 scale set in your group and I have never seen anyone wear them. What’s point having good gear if your not gonna wear it and just want to be able to mass create throw away gear and use it as an excuse?

 

You should probably just make peace with the fact that Friede's rare drake set is gone forever rather than derailing threads to cry about it, tbh. People are free to wear whatever gear they think is best suited to the situation. Consider that its often better to just deprive the enemy of something rather than utilise it yourself. If us taking JK's best sets and putting them out of reach is something that really upsets you, then consider not letting your best equipped guys die.

Edited by Ols

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