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Nirav

Looting Fallen Deeds

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I actually even made a few friends just because we were looting the same deed  xD Or i like to think they are friends :D

For me looting abandoned deeds is one of the best aspects of the game, the trill of finding mats you don't need to spend hours to make, founding special items, real treasure that is actually left behind someone that you can use, that has a story, and not rng generated treasure is awesome.

To the blindly altruistic folks, we are all responsible adults and not children. if you care about your deed think in advance,  don't go to big if you can't support it for years to come, invest in upkeep first instead of that overpriced fancy pmk wagon that I can't unfortunatly loot because i can't lockpick abbandoned stuff... And that's the end of story for me. If you have atleast a year of upkeep in your dee, in my eyes there are no circumstances where you can't login at least once in that period to add to upkeep, secure your things, downsize. And to be honest most of deeds that re looted are from players that will never go back, folks who do, are just exceptions on the rule, but they can be heard unlike the other bunch so it looks like they are not exceptions..

Now whats bad is way in which looting is conducted because of current game mechanics... Waiting logged for whole day and night staring for that last random tick of decay on a wall with bunch of other people who want the same is hell that brings only frustration if you're not the lucky one to loot. Heck even turning disbanded deed into pvp zone where you can bash and kill others would be better that that...

Messages that deed disbanded are bad imo, because the fact that you're first at the deed that fell doesn't mean much when for most things you need to wait wall with bunch others alts that popped up, you have zero chance to explore and run upon disbanded deed by chance.  Winner is the one most determined to spend hours logged into game starring at wall and not doing anything, and that sucks. but you have to do it if you wanna loot cuz others are doing it.

 

P.S. Not being able to lockpick on pve and loot abbandoned wagons and other locked things also sucks alot, but thats a topic for another day

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14 hours ago, Rauros said:


They are pretty easy to "bridge"... humans communities are known to have a share of behaviours that are viewed  as correct or not within the community, that are commonly called, listen well to me because that's the important part, RULES.
Once you estabilish the common rules among a community, they're done...they can be modified and added-subtracted over time, but since they're there, they're bound to be respected.
Wurm is weird: il already have RULES! Rules and social contracts are often abstract: if the rules do not prohibit (with mechanics or intended corrective behaviours) to do something, then that thing is not against the rules and, incredibly to say, CAN BE DONE, and while we can debate if something that can be done should still stay as it is, it's also true that people had not to be shunned if they do something that is NOT AGAINST THE RULES. Actually, wurm rules states that harassing others is against the rules, so those who say "people that do this are bad people" are going against the rules (not your case but seen in this topic multiple times, including also passive-aggressive behaviours intended to put others in bad light).

Discussing the topic is okay and nice, evolves the community: in this topic there were many advices to new players and as i said, making a guide to stick in the forum and/or the wiki is more productive, someone may be pushed by the discussion to behave in specific manners that OP finds better (contacting players if they can, help people recover once they're back in...and try the living of a village until you recovered).

Trying to push a black/white vision of things where one group is good vs the outsiders are bad, is not a good way to make any advance and will stick people to their positions, not giving anything to the community, or giving very very little.

For example, i think i've already said that, i'm even in favor of lockpick use in pve, and also in bashing down everything offdeed: most people do not understand what means to play next to an overcrowded area wich also went down but you cannot do anything to remove the stuff from there, and believe me, it's a pain once you deeded there to not be able to get out of your place because horses stutter so much they will make butter of the milk you have in your cart.

I would certainly hope people would not be shunned for looting.  As you say, it is permitted.

 

When I say I find the rule and the mentality out of place in PVE, I am speaking of the rule and of the in-game approach to looting and I am saying "out of place" not "evil" or "done by bad people".  I get that there is a bit of a tone of that here and elsewhere.  That's a shame because people don't deserve to be denigrated for doing something not just permitted by the rules but explicitly so with a clear statement.  

 

I think Wurm does not do well at handling issues related to absent players generally but one thing I have garnered from the many many mostly fruitless discussions of this is that it is a HARD thing to do in a way that keeps everyone happy.  I have a few ideas and made a few suggestions on that, but have not yet thought of or come across something that will be universally acceptable (which would be a tall order for ANYTHING involving more than one person).

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20 hours ago, Rauros said:


I talk way too much in chat, so much i sometimes believe that other ppl are annoyed by me because everyone is silent...but i come from rpg's and my game style is the one that i don't just "build" or "craft", i like stories to develope from what i make...so often i try to make a small communal village with other players, while having a mindset about what i want this community to be, and i often fail because everyone in game seems just "i'll do whatever i like, wich won't ever be what you too like", and it's a bit sad.
One of the problems in wurm is probably the lack of true village mechanics, tho some are basically overlooked. One is the sacrifice system: little people knows or have experimented how easier is the deed life once you max the deed bonuses like the others behind rare window: enchant bonus is nice to have and very useful, fight bonus raises CR by little but of everyone in the deed, healing bonus makes hunting a LOT easier and so on, but we could enjoy more!  They should be things hard to make tho, wich will require the coordinate effort of different players...

 

I feel ya, been there, done that, etc. In my point of views, i like to remind myself as a true player that respect the world of Wurm. What i mean is no multi personailties, that mean no alts, just one character and i do like to roleplay at some point. For example, playing a evil character doesnt mean gotta be chaotic and killing everything that moves. Many players in Wurm doesnt understand the roleplaying parts or how to enjoy the game itself rather than making a mess and treating other players like sh*ts! I dont know how many characters i have made in Wurm Online, most of them should be deleted, so others can use those names.

 

But for the deed parts, really aint much can do about it. But they could remove that popups when a deed fell/disbanded though. But you can still track everything in settlement token's history log.

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3 hours ago, Darkelf said:

 

I feel ya, been there, done that, etc. In my point of views, i like to remind myself as a true player that respect the world of Wurm. What i mean is no multi personailties, that mean no alts, just one character and i do like to roleplay at some point. For example, playing a evil character doesnt mean gotta be chaotic and killing everything that moves. Many players in Wurm doesnt understand the roleplaying parts or how to enjoy the game itself rather than making a mess and treating other players like sh*ts! I dont know how many characters i have made in Wurm Online, most of them should be deleted, so others can use those names.

 

But for the deed parts, really aint much can do about it. But they could remove that popups when a deed fell/disbanded though. But you can still track everything in settlement token's history log.


i tell you, i'm a looter, i know already approximatively when a deed will disband by looking at the map, not even beign there sometimes...can make a better guess if i'm getting there, wich will be probably a matter of guessing wich week will decay...

 

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5 hours ago, Darkelf said:

But for the deed parts, really aint much can do about it. But they could remove that popups when a deed fell/disbanded though. But you can still track everything in settlement token's history log.

this can backfire aswell, we had alliance/friends deed fall that wasnt suppose to, announcement made us aware to contact the owner wich manage to redeed becouse of it, so its not just a "bad" thing.

this wasnt a high value deeds tho so wouldnt think the owner had cared, but i can see that this has happen with others aswell.

 

Still would love to see a way to check and add deed upkeep when out of game.

 

 

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That might be the key: an announcement sent to friends and alliance members.

 

Managing upkeep out of game is a definite +1.

 

 

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On 3/8/2023 at 4:47 PM, Steveleeb said:

I would personally try to find the owner of the deed im sacking and try to reach out through the means available to me.
The twitter feed would tell you who founded it, freedom chat might know where they are (or who knew them) then there's forum posts and a private message to their profile account.
if after a month nothing bounces back, then it is what it is.
Flagrantly sacking without giving a damn might well be the root of complaint, compromises can be met through a little compassion.

Yep. this was my entire original point. Compassion. 

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As above and so below.
live as you wish to die. (empathy or gain)
WO is a great demonstration. and foundry. greater than it was ever meant to be.

liberty or freedom. this is a good thread thank you for making it.
Our rules govern the short term and maintain a quo.
finely tuned over the last 16 years, some of us can never truly leave.
Notch should be proud, i've got no idea how rolfs mind works, i suspect he's a sadist.
Sorry bout the reply, wanted to leave the OP's point intact.

When i commit to a stranger playing this sort of game and they ask me, how might they pay me back.
we say, support the game and provide for others. (just play)
But we get all sorts here.
Compassion, quite right.
HAxRwHL.jpg
Ultima worked it, should we?

Edited by Steveleeb
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Yeah, exactly, or opposite, anyhow whatever. That's right.

 

Or wrong.

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On 3/16/2023 at 4:15 AM, TheTrickster said:

That might be the key: an announcement sent to friends and alliance members.

 

Managing upkeep out of game is a definite +1.

 

 

So friends and alliance will know before others when to go looting🤣🤣🤣

Edited by Rauros
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Already on GV I learned that Wurm can be a very harsh mistress. Griefing, theft. Seen it all. Fell victim to it, too. Protesting was fruitless.

To make a long story short: if the game doesn't prevent something, it is legal. If something is legal, it will be done by someone, or several people, or most people. 

 

Deed it or lose it is the only law you can live by to make sure your possessions stay yours. Sometimes, tragically, that isn't possible. 

 

All you can do is hope for compassion, but as I said: if something is legal, it will be done by someone. So don't count on compassion. On the contrary: count on none being shown, not for any extended time anyway. 

 

Just revel in the thought that there are kiddies out there who dwell in their mother's basement for hours, in order to try and get some bragging rights in a niche game by taking things that they did not produce themselves and didn't pay for. How much pleasure do you think they will get out of that? I am willing to wager it isn't much.

And if they sell that stuff, they have spent hours of their lives, in which they could have played the game, in order to work out a strategy that makes it possible to play the game more. Cynical congrats to them: they have turned the game into a job. Again: how much pleasure does one get out of that? At the end, the joke is on them.

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Would it make anyone feel better if it was called environmental recycling instead of looting?

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and here we are again: ppl cannot play within the rules and doing what they like for their reasons or they are little whiny nerds doing stupid stuff. Well, congrats to you, get back playing farmville, is probably a game better suited to your wills.

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Well, picking up and scavenging is just that it can be good or bad, remember it gives an opportunity to the one who made all that stuff to either start again or quit, both are good options considering all the time you spend here...
And if that player quit, then he is gone but left some digital value for other players.
But honestly wasting time is exactly that, a waste of time. Use it wisely with your beloved, with friends and so on, time here goes quite fast and real life time jumps fast forward while playing games like wurm.
15 Years now since I played last and honestly the game hasnt changed a lot (base) but has definitely increased in content.

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This is a very nice sentiment and post and I wholly agree, in principle.  But honestly the idea that my stuff could be looted, if I lapsed from the game too long, never really bothered me.  The game is very generous with it's warnings and time given to recover things (email warning when settlement funds are low and the protection of intact buildings).  Personally, I prefer the idea of someone getting or using (or selling for someone else to use) my stuff rather than having it decay and be lost forever.  The thing that would bother me more is the idea of losing a nice location.  Stuff can be remade or repurchased, but that perfect location cannot be recovered/shaped so easily.  But maybe my priorities are different.  

 

Full disclosure, I'm an opportunistic looter, when I even bother to venture from my settlement at all, these days.  But if I'm exploring I love finding ruins because they are so interesting.  I love imagining what the settlement was like and who lived there.  Usually by the time I find an abandoned place the hardcore looters have come and gone, but I've picked up items I need, and found an item or two that I've truly treasured.  Like everything, it's not really a black and white issue.  I'm sure even the hardcore looters have some reverence for some items they find.

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My RL husband and I actually have a rather large deed on Cad devoted to "immortal" cared for animals, and there are a lot there - if I see a name I recognize, I contact them and ask if they want their animal back... but to be honest, we have so many, it isn't easy to keep track, but many know that if they come back after an absence to contact me and see if I have managed to save their critters.

 

I would like to think that if something happened to me, someone would take care of my cared for animals as I have cared for them for a good reason, some are sentimental (the first horse I caught, the first foal born, etc) some for their traits (a few champs in amongst that pile)

 

As for items, I rarely get there before the "good stuff" is gone, but if I find things like beds or forges left rotting, I will gather them up and then hand them out to newbies I meet - have just set up two new players this past week with some basic equipment to make their lives easier - like beds, fsb's, ovens etc...

 

I have been on the "wrong end" of professional looters who have gotten personal with me, or slaughtered animals I am trying to save "just because they can" and it upsets me, but I log off, decompress, and try to accept people have different playstyles... and sadly there are several that will kill anything they find as they believe it will help with "wild spawns" when the truth is there are just too many breeders out there for wiping out all the animals on a fallen deed to make any real impact on spawn rates.

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On 2/24/2023 at 4:12 AM, DaletheGood said:

One possible suggestion for slowing down those who have an alt placed in every grid on every map in order to get to a fallen deed almost immediately, is to extend the deed protections of a deed that falls from upkeep by 24 hrs. This will give friends of that person time to contact them and get them online to redeed, or for those friends that have permissions to go and salvage their stuff keeping it out of the hands of the professionals.

hmm.  The current mechanism is that when there is more than a month of upkeep decay stops.  What if when when the upkeep runs out, the deed has a month (or even a week) where there is full decay rate but the deed perms stay in place?  This gives those who have been given permission realistic time to secure stuff.  When re-deeding the upkeep could even be backdated to cover that period.  

 

Interestingly, when premium is getting low, Wurm send an email.  Does it send an email when upkeep is getting low?

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster

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5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

hmm.  The current mechanism is that when there is more than a month of upkeep decay stops.  What if when when the upkeep runs out, the deed has a month (or even a week) where there is full decay rate but the deed perms stay in place?  This gives those who have been given permission realistic time to secure stuff.  When re-deeding the upkeep could even be backdated to cover that period.  

 

Interestingly, when premium is getting low, Wurm send an email.  Does it send an email when upkeep is getting low?

 

 

yes you get a email when your upkeep is less than 30days and all stuff in houses will be secure untill the walls decays

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I've always played Wurm with a "Lock it or Lose it" mentality.
This is a mindset that needs to exist when playing with any kind of strangers online. PvE or PvP otherwise, it doesn't matter what kind of game or gamemode it is. There will always be someone, somewhere who's going to be eyeballing whatever it is you have and if they can take it they most certainly will!

 

Deeds are designed for claiming, to prevent the idea that someone else can come along and interfere with your work. It's yours, you've put a claim on it.
This includes but is not limited to, your tools, your structures, your chests and the land itself that you can change and shape as you please.
Not everyone can afford a large deed, or a deed at all out of pocket (I myself am a F2P user at this time even).
Wurm offers so many other ways to extra secure your items too though. Yes there is the Bank option where you can deposit and store your most prized items (within reason ofc) and it doesn't take any more effort to store these items in that bank than it does to deposit them on a shelf or a chest. Speaking of shelves and chests, there's these fun things called locks that you can make for added protection. I implore people to use these to their full advantage everytime. Large items like Forges, Ovens, Smelters.. Secure them down. This essentially "locks" the item from being removed/moved unless it's deeded over. Make it a priority to imp the crap out of your structures, those are your first/last line of defense should something happen and you can't support a deeded piece of land anymore.
I see massive structures all over Wurm but they're left at whatever creation QL they were made with and we all know structures don't last long off-deed, so why are we taking the risk of letting them decay as quickly as possible should a deed fall?

 

I see many posters here who are talking about people who have been playing "For a long time" or "Have good stuff". So what's stopping/preventing the action of applying locks where able and imping walls as much as possible to ensure stuff stays put should something come up?
I've been on and off wurm for years. Each time my deed has come down and been looted. Many times I've had to start from literal scratch, not even a cart remaining to my name. Accepting that human-beings are prone to this kind of behavior and knowing that if I didn't properly prepare for whatever may come up or the fact that I just wasn't up to the task to logging in for a while (not even to drop more coin into the upkeep) that I was also accepting the fact that I would (not could but would) lose everything that wasn't on my person.

I have had others reach out to me with the request: "I may not be online for a while, if that happens (x days) please go to my deed and make sure X, Y and Z are safe. I've given you perms to access these things." Having a back-up plan or someone you can trust to make sure a certain select items are secured in-case something happens is called having proper neighbors and being neighborly. Expecting some random human-beings on the internet though to be neighborly is a stretch. It's a nice thought but truly lets take a long hard look at human-beings as a whole, can we honestly say we expect anything less than the "Lock it or Lose it" behavior?

I am too lazy to rush out to a deed that has fallen to try to get first dibs on it's loot. I will however check out an old abandoned lot to see what still remains and try to imagine what it was like when it was still active. If there's anything left I can still use, you bet I'm going to put it to use. Especially in an instance where someone may even have a venerable bull still hanging out in some pen somewhere because these days this "should be neighborly community" is hoarding (and yes I do mean hoarding) any and all livestock to the point that servers can't even spawn new ones for being well beyond cap. (I suppose that's another discussion to be had entirely based on this, 'be kind' subject though).

 

Point being, have a contingency plan in place if something happens. Whether it be ensuring your deed has upkeep for ages at a time, your structures are top QL always, locks on everything that can support them, securing your larger items (and chest) so they can't just be picked up and walked off, a neighbor in-game who can come and save stuff if you don't login for X amount of time, whatever the case may be.

If we'd all start treating our own stuff as if a Deed didn't exist to protect our stuff in the first place, it wouldn't hurt or be as devastating if and when that Deed did fall. It would add more time to our "away timers" as that extra cushion before our walls fell and our gates came crashing down.

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