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Nirav

Looting Fallen Deeds

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5 hours ago, Shmeric said:

I m in secure.

 

It's amazing what you can create by removing all forms of context, and cherry picking only what you want.

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3 hours ago, Aeryck said:


Allow friends to be part of your deed and make it a democracy. They can vote you out if you go inactive.


This may have the unintended option that you get fired out of your own deed if someone sets up a trap with friends and vote for you out, taking over the deed and ALL the stuff inside... better to rethink that project.

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2 hours ago, Rauros said:


This may have the unintended option that you get fired out of your own deed if someone sets up a trap with friends and vote for you out, taking over the deed and ALL the stuff inside... better to rethink that project.

Yeah. Probably wouldn't work out well at all.

 

Although, the base idea is still good. Maybe, storage units at starter towns run by GMs. Could also create additional income for the game itself that way.

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What about having the deed perms persist for 24 hrs after a deed falls. The person will still have to re-deed it when/if they come back on, but their friends who have perms on the deed and buildings can come salvage as much as they can in that 24 hrs. This gives everyone a chance to re-deed or move their stuff without fighting off the looters. Then, everyone else can come and hang out for those 24 hrs and they'll all know exactly when the deed is available to be looted, it'll be like an old-fashioned land-rush. This will eliminate the advantage some looters have with their army of alts stationed next to (seemingly) every deed armed with padlocks.

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7 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

What about having the deed perms persist for 24 hrs after a deed falls. The person will still have to re-deed it when/if they come back on, but their friends who have perms on the deed and buildings can come salvage as much as they can in that 24 hrs. This gives everyone a chance to re-deed or move their stuff without fighting off the looters. Then, everyone else can come and hang out for those 24 hrs and they'll all know exactly when the deed is available to be looted, it'll be like an old-fashioned land-rush. This will eliminate the advantage some looters have with their army of alts stationed next to (seemingly) every deed armed with padlocks.


A determined looter would just bring in a bsb with 70ql shards and wall in easily all the deed, placing a lockpad, and will wait for any x amount of time/situation to pass, then gather the stuff he'd like. It's not easy to "fix" stuff like that, and for every single looter, there will be another player that may want or try a way to abuse such mechanics for his own...see the alt-banking, and the 5s 2 weeks premium.

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I understand why some are so determined to create a issue over something where there is no issue. To try and give themselves more time to loot it for themselves. If a deed drops, the discussion is over. The simplest solution is to keep your deed paid months if not a year in advance. This is the best way to protect it. Plain and simple. If you fail at that then your wurm possessions were not that important to you. Move along.

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Deed it or lose it. This has been the general rule in Wurm ever since the enclosure rule was removed years ago. This extends to deed upkeep. Yeah, it's tragic that some people lose their deeds over unavoidable real life issues but with this being a social game I would hope you would have at least made friends with your neighbours who might look after your stuff if your place disbands.

 

-1 to any suggestions for a grace period after disband. Email alerting is already in place if a deed has less than a months upkeep left. Perhaps this can be extended to alert in alliance chat so someone could at least drop some upkeep in if they are concerned that the mayor might not return for a while.

 

 

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I think when any deed disbands it should automatically go under my ownership with all permissions and I'll make sure everyone's stuff is kept safe. I pinky promise.

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Abandoned deeds should become unlootable by anyone and you just have to look and cry until decay does its job.

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if people didnt have mammoth sized deeds they could easily put 2-3 years of upkeep to defend from this issue

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7 hours ago, Jeston said:

if people didnt have mammoth sized deeds they could easily put 2-3 years of upkeep to defend from this issue

Much like everything else. People going to big and not being able to afford what they are doing. 1-2 silver deeds are good enough size for most.

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Im not going to say anything different from what some players have stated. I side with the looters, if the deeds falls, its ours for the taking. You dont like it? secure it with asking a friend, dropping more money, reducing size, i dont care. Im so, so, SO done with people trying to push their own responsabilities onto others, then when they refuse they call them heartless, selfish, and whatever form of tagging their emotionally inmature brain allow them.

 

I dont have to be responsible for YOUR deed, I dont accept it as mine, its YOURS, and if you fail to keep up with the upkeep its your fault. Im not your mother to remind you what you have to do with your own stuff, because its yours for a good reason. Now, try to develop your emotional intelligence a bit, and focus on what you can control and be accountable, its very easy to do.

 

I have looted fallen deeds in the past, didnt care a bit what happened to the owner and I didnt have to, I already have my own problems thank you, I dont need more. That loot helped me paying premium, tools, and I even gave many things to new players that helped them inmensely, to the point they are still playing to today, after many years.

 

Keep pointing your fingers at players that arent doing anything against the rules, because they refuse to accept YOUR responsibilities, or your playstyle. We will keep mapping all deeds and appearing to any disbanding as soon as our horses can. You dont like it? deal with it. Simple as.

 

You could store their stuff, and yet that would go against the community. You want to know why, my dear players-with-lots-of-feelings? because that supreme forge you are hiding, made by a player that hasnt showed up in years could be used by a freemium or new player, greatly enhancing their game experience. But you care too much about a poor ex-player that quite possibly will return, like most do.

 

And hey, I agree on the part of those people who suffer the unpredicted and cant play, Im sorry for them. Yet, I cant distinguish them from your regular quitter.

 

Keep the looting on lads, better to use looted stuff, than letting years of gameplay to decay, just to satisfy a bunch of (possibly looters as well) old players with 0 emotional intelligence, who expects you to adapt to their rules, their playstyle and their feelings.

 

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Sad.

As I wrote before, I don't really care either way, so I am not taking side on the argument itself.

 

But what does bug me is, that all OP did was asking for people to look for a kind corner in their hearts, there was no demanding, no telling anyone how to play, it was a mere request to those who may never bothered to think that far.

And what do we get? The ugly side of the community showing up in the most rude way possible.

The playbase is already slim enough as is, all you guys do by acting like that is driving people away who may read this and the sad part about it? For you guys that still is a win, someone leaves? Yey more loot for you! Someone stopps getting invested into the game? They probably would have never gathered enough wealth to be a worthy raid target anyhow.

 

There is debating and making a point and then there is just being a douche about it.

At least keep things classy if you feel you need to make a point, but calling names or trying to play psychologist and telling people they are wrong in their head is not the way.

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1 hour ago, Milkdrop said:

Sad.

As I wrote before, I don't really care either way, so I am not taking side on the argument itself.

 

But what does bug me is, that all OP did was asking for people to look for a kind corner in their hearts, there was no demanding, no telling anyone how to play, it was a mere request to those who may never bothered to think that far.

And what do we get? The ugly side of the community showing up in the most rude way possible.

The playbase is already slim enough as is, all you guys do by acting like that is driving people away who may read this and the sad part about it? For you guys that still is a win, someone leaves? Yey more loot for you! Someone stopps getting invested into the game? They probably would have never gathered enough wealth to be a worthy raid target anyhow.

 

There is debating and making a point and then there is just being a douche about it.

At least keep things classy if you feel you need to make a point, but calling names or trying to play psychologist and telling people they are wrong in their head is not the way.

 

Read the answers again. Nobody refuses helping or contacting the owner, what some of us protest about is being unable to loot a fallen deed, or feel bad about it, when it is another mechanic.

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One of the funniest things that happened to me, was a player came to my deed and told me quite plainly that he would like to loot my deed as there were a few things he was after.  These good humoured exchanges aren't meant to upset anyone, and only serve as a reminder to keep my upkeep topped up. 

Edited by Muse
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17 hours ago, Milkdrop said:

Sad.

As I wrote before, I don't really care either way, so I am not taking side on the argument itself.

 

But what does bug me is, that all OP did was asking for people to look for a kind corner in their hearts, there was no demanding, no telling anyone how to play, it was a mere request to those who may never bothered to think that far.

And what do we get? The ugly side of the community showing up in the most rude way possible.

The playbase is already slim enough as is, all you guys do by acting like that is driving people away who may read this and the sad part about it? For you guys that still is a win, someone leaves? Yey more loot for you! Someone stopps getting invested into the game? They probably would have never gathered enough wealth to be a worthy raid target anyhow.

 

There is debating and making a point and then there is just being a douche about it.

At least keep things classy if you feel you need to make a point, but calling names or trying to play psychologist and telling people they are wrong in their head is not the way.

im not a looter either so this dont really effect me mutch, also live on deed with a friend so the chances for both of us having an unexppected life crisis is really slim, but reading through this thread i feel like it was angle the way that the looters play the "wrong way", so i dont agree that this looked just like a friendly advice and more like trying to change how people play. Thats why i think people acting up.

 

I also dont see that this is a big issue really, i dont believe we have lost many players due to real life crisis that would make them unable to log in at all, some may use this as an excuse, yes. Some may have quit and logged on to see they have to start over, yes. doesnt mean it hasnt happen tho, but its no chance to seperate them from the quiters.

 

Try to contact the owner? yeah i got no problem with that, but how and for how long? until other has been able to loot it? if someone are really unable to log in, what are the chances they will be reading the wurm forum?

 

None of this means that looters dont care or are unemotional about it all. 

 

20 hours ago, GUNNULFHEDNAR said:

Much like everything else. People going to big and not being able to afford what they are doing. 1-2 silver deeds are good enough size for most.

well some people dont care about skilling and all the other stuff, they want to build and that sometimes require some space, not been able to afford it and not been able to pay 2-3 years of upkeep upfront is 2 different things.

 

Playing in an online world, everyone has something others do that they dont like, but its just something you gotta deal with.

 

But at the end of the day, the game mechanic and the rules are clear regarding this, and i dont see it change anytime soon, we can hope for a easier way to follow and add deed upkeep, also when we are offline.

Edited by Stinboi
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1 hour ago, Stinboi said:

im not a looter either so this dont really effect me mutch, also live on deed with a friend so the chances for both of us having an unexppected life crisis is really slim, but reading through this thread i feel like it was angle the way that the looters play the "wrong way", so i dont agree that this looked just like a friendly advice and more like trying to change how people play. Thats why i think people acting up.

 


A thing i liked to point was exactly this: the game mechanics were put in place like they were, because deeding was intended NOT as to just have a private property over server, but to have a community in there, and that's why we can add people to deeds, have a form of governance, why we in the past had upkeep a lot higher than it is, altars that will push up deed characteristics in exchange of some labour, wich is a lot easier when in a community (and provides constant nice bonuses, even if most of them except rare window are totally left behind). Beign in a village deed, in a community, maybe with a smaller deed than some people do nowadays (some people in my server have over 8s monthly upkeep, and some have deeds larger than 100x100...), will surely remove any chance that even if your possibility to play is hindered for long times.

If we should learn a lesson from this discussion, is that people do not really understand Wurm mechanics, but surely they want them to work like they like.

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In 14 years when my deed disbands, you're all welcome to it. Try to pause while you're looting tho, it is quite pretty.
Wurm is a bit of a trap, if you build something worth preserving you feel absolutely oblidged to do so, even if, u stop playing.
it's not simply a portfolio, it's something the server has grown as surely as the player that built it.

I agree that we need some sort of mail system that warns you when your deed disbands, maybe it's already in place.. i don't know but it's phenomenally important that it is.
I mean, come on.

that said... if you care enough, you cannot forget how much time is left in the upkeep, if you do then maybe you don't sufficiently care.
yes i know horrible things can happen to us IRL, distractions to say the least but love is love and if you love your deed, the end of the clock is always rememebered. 
'it'll last me till im <this old>', or 'i don't need to worry till next year'
the only exception might be, when you rely on others 'to take care of it'. Best not do that without a little oversight.

If you merely 'like' your deed then maybe that isn't enough.
I would personally try to find the owner of the deed im sacking and try to reach out through the means available to me.
The twitter feed would tell you who founded it, freedom chat might know where they are (or who knew them) then there's forum posts and a private message to their profile account.
if after a month nothing bounces back, then it is what it is.
Flagrantly sacking without giving a damn might well be the root of complaint, compromises can be met through a little compassion.

I know how the worst examples feel, when Horsedog disbanded on deli, good lord.. that quick push we can do on our deeds now? that's there because 20+ vultures plonked their wagons on the deed waiting, for it to fall. Then forgot about them when the lucky ones won the score. moving so many vehicles required gm intervention and now it does not.
It was appalling, all a neighbor could do was watch, quickly deed, perimeter over building and ignore all the gleeful giggling.
dem bones.

I guess the mechanic, isn't the problem. how some approach it, is.
Try to find the owner, you'll feel like less of a vulture if you do.
Worst case scenario?.. if there's something you really want, let them think someone else sacked it but some things are more subjectively valuable, than a supreme forge.
it's the thought that counts.

Course if they don't even have a forum account or entrusted it to an alt that u can't hunt down. at least u tried.
I'm not referring to tiny deeds which come and go like the wind. WO takes alot of commitment which is easy to find if you love the game.
If you only 'like' the game? yeah it can be pretty harsh. such is life. As mentioned by others, it's not as rough as it used to be.

Edited by Steveleeb
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1 hour ago, Steveleeb said:

In 14 years when my deed disbands, you're all welcome to it. Try to pause while you're looting tho, it is quite pretty.
Wurm is a bit of a trap, if you build something worth preserving you feel absolutely oblidged to do so, even if, u stop playing.
it's not simply a portfolio, it's something the server has grown as surely as the player that built it.

 

This..I don't care what else you feel, but we should all agree with this. Truest thing said in this entire thread.

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On 2/23/2023 at 1:04 PM, TheTrickster said:

I find "deed it or lose it" both as a rule and as a mentality to be completely out of place in PVE. 

 

On 2/25/2023 at 10:21 PM, Merc said:

Deed it or lose it.

 

I do not know how to bridge the gulf between these viewpoints.  I do acknowledge that they ARE viewpoints - opinions - but they are mutually exclusive within a shared space, which is a sure recipe for conflict.

 

 

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Yeah not much you can do about this situations, i mean once everyone see that popup about that deed has been disbanded. Most would check it out, especially for those know about that place. Yeah it is sad to see players going in there and raid it, wreck it, etc. I am not one of those player does this, seen this happen all the time. I do remember picking up few materials from crates, that was long gone. But never right a way, doesnt matter if you dont take it, someone else will regardless.

 

So there not much you can do about it, if you really want to protect it or guard it. I have seen players flag it with a popping deed there, wont help much if there are building structures there. It is best for players to keep their belongings in locked bins, chests, etc.

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On 2/27/2023 at 9:33 AM, Rauros said:


A thing i liked to point was exactly this: the game mechanics were put in place like they were, because deeding was intended NOT as to just have a private property over server, but to have a community in there, and that's why we can add people to deeds, have a form of governance, why we in the past had upkeep a lot higher than it is, altars that will push up deed characteristics in exchange of some labour, wich is a lot easier when in a community (and provides constant nice bonuses, even if most of them except rare window are totally left behind). Beign in a village deed, in a community, maybe with a smaller deed than some people do nowadays (some people in my server have over 8s monthly upkeep, and some have deeds larger than 100x100...), will surely remove any chance that even if your possibility to play is hindered for long times.

If we should learn a lesson from this discussion, is that people do not really understand Wurm mechanics, but surely they want them to work like they like.

 

I have seen so many doesnt care about community in there, most doesnt even talk or say hi. So its sad to see how this develop over time in the game. I remember posting something awhile back to find a deed or village to join, no one reply. So i decided to create my own place, unfortunately i have a mute neighbour and doesnt seem to be friendly either. The alliances should keep an eye out incase there a fallen deed, especially if that place is well developed and put alot of effort into it. Try to savage or save what they can before someone else take it, but it will be hell dealing with players that doesnt give a damn who you are or what going on.

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5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

 

 

I do not know how to bridge the gulf between these viewpoints.  I do acknowledge that they ARE viewpoints - opinions - but they are mutually exclusive within a shared space, which is a sure recipe for conflict.

 

 


They are pretty easy to "bridge"... humans communities are known to have a share of behaviours that are viewed  as correct or not within the community, that are commonly called, listen well to me because that's the important part, RULES.
Once you estabilish the common rules among a community, they're done...they can be modified and added-subtracted over time, but since they're there, they're bound to be respected.
Wurm is weird: il already have RULES! Rules and social contracts are often abstract: if the rules do not prohibit (with mechanics or intended corrective behaviours) to do something, then that thing is not against the rules and, incredibly to say, CAN BE DONE, and while we can debate if something that can be done should still stay as it is, it's also true that people had not to be shunned if they do something that is NOT AGAINST THE RULES. Actually, wurm rules states that harassing others is against the rules, so those who say "people that do this are bad people" are going against the rules (not your case but seen in this topic multiple times, including also passive-aggressive behaviours intended to put others in bad light).

Discussing the topic is okay and nice, evolves the community: in this topic there were many advices to new players and as i said, making a guide to stick in the forum and/or the wiki is more productive, someone may be pushed by the discussion to behave in specific manners that OP finds better (contacting players if they can, help people recover once they're back in...and try the living of a village until you recovered).

Trying to push a black/white vision of things where one group is good vs the outsiders are bad, is not a good way to make any advance and will stick people to their positions, not giving anything to the community, or giving very very little.

For example, i think i've already said that, i'm even in favor of lockpick use in pve, and also in bashing down everything offdeed: most people do not understand what means to play next to an overcrowded area wich also went down but you cannot do anything to remove the stuff from there, and believe me, it's a pain once you deeded there to not be able to get out of your place because horses stutter so much they will make butter of the milk you have in your cart.

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1 hour ago, Darkelf said:

 

I have seen so many doesnt care about community in there, most doesnt even talk or say hi. So its sad to see how this develop over time in the game. I remember posting something awhile back to find a deed or village to join, no one reply. So i decided to create my own place, unfortunately i have a mute neighbour and doesnt seem to be friendly either. The alliances should keep an eye out incase there a fallen deed, especially if that place is well developed and put alot of effort into it. Try to savage or save what they can before someone else take it, but it will be hell dealing with players that doesnt give a damn who you are or what going on.


I talk way too much in chat, so much i sometimes believe that other ppl are annoyed by me because everyone is silent...but i come from rpg's and my game style is the one that i don't just "build" or "craft", i like stories to develope from what i make...so often i try to make a small communal village with other players, while having a mindset about what i want this community to be, and i often fail because everyone in game seems just "i'll do whatever i like, wich won't ever be what you too like", and it's a bit sad.
One of the problems in wurm is probably the lack of true village mechanics, tho some are basically overlooked. One is the sacrifice system: little people knows or have experimented how easier is the deed life once you max the deed bonuses like the others behind rare window: enchant bonus is nice to have and very useful, fight bonus raises CR by little but of everyone in the deed, healing bonus makes hunting a LOT easier and so on, but we could enjoy more!  They should be things hard to make tho, wich will require the coordinate effort of different players...

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