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Nirav

Looting Fallen Deeds

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8 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Don't get me wrong, you can salvage and loot quite fine without this mindset.  Just be mindful, when you are jumping in to grab "anything good left" from a deed that just fell, of how you would feel if, say, you had a 24hr window undeeded and logged in to find your work of months-to-years completely plundered and pillaged, with broken buildings almost all that is left.

 

Maybe look at it this way; you already don't have all that stuff.  Treat it as salvage, take a little time to see if it can be restored to the owner or someone who will steward it, and anything you don't manage to return is then a boon.  You lose nothing, because it wasn't yours in the first place.  At least be prepared to help the person get re-established if/when they return.

i loot items from fallen deeds when travelling around and find places randomly. (i have no idea when they fell though) 

i am interested more so in high ql items that are better then my current gear and set up, along with bulk mats I need for projects.  i hate the slow process of making mats and improving items.  it is far more easy as a loophole to take left over mats from someone whos deed has dropped or even someones house in an alliance if the person has been gone for a really long time and I have seen as such and asked around about when the person was last online.

because the majority of my items are taken from others I not only feel paranoid that others may do the same to me but then again, I also know that if the items were taken from me, then I can always go and find some more from elsewhere.  this is loophole and trying to speed things up thinking.   if i went along and thought "i should try and leave a note and get the items back to the person or even help them when they return...etc" 

 

no.  i can't be bothered with doing that or even trying to keep track of all of that.   i take. i use. i hoard  + can also use the mats for community projects too.  the majority of deed improvements and buildings made in my alliance would of not of got made if i did not use other people's mats.   i just find the process of making mats so so bloody boring.  i want to focus on building things.

 

i am also not going to lumber myself with guilt over a virtual video game world.  also the point about coming back and finding your buildings destroyed.....i've had that happen or more so, people started to destroy a building.  so i then thought "okay, if you want to take down one of my buildings then i'll take them all down by myself and then no one can ever enjoy them, ever again"  then i  press the destroy button on the buildings and a big castle can get boomed in a flash of light.   then i move on to a new area with any left over items and start again.  then the cycle starts up again.

 

maybe not healthy though....hmm....but it could be the thing which finally helps me quit wurm lol  afterall, wurm is said to be hard to quit.   maybe when i get fed up with the game "I'm" playing (the cycle) i will quit it.

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8 hours ago, Nirav said:

I like that you replied. I like hearing different perspectives. I do want to point out though, ragequitting, or leaving by choice is Vastly different than having something happen that is not in your control. And these personal crises are far more common than I think most people realize. You are comparing apples and oranges here. These things weren't a loss to you because you Chose to leave. You already gave them away by doing so. If someone I knew of ragequit, and I believed they were Done and not coming back, then ok, Yeah, I would feel just fine throwing whatever I wanted into my wagon. All I am asking of folks is to reach out and find out what happened before doing that to someone's stuff.


It looks a lot like this discussion is just a reinforced bias where someone wants to push other players to play how they like, or else...

First, let me say a thing: your point is wrong, i did not posted what was my experience to make a comparison, on the contrary i posted it to show how different playstiles can be, and that if you get overattached to some pixels, in my opinion is better that make a step behind, look at the things in perspective and stop blaming or accusingothers for their point of view.

In my wurm life i found quite a good number of overattached people: they seem to forget that this is an MMO and other players are here too, and they do not own nor the game, neither the truth about playing it. Once i had a friend that gave me a free horse in Release, to reach a boat to go in Xanadu: when i got to the boat i left the horsie free, and that player attacked me via pm and discord because that was his horse and i should have taken care of it.Let me repeat that again: she wanted me to take care of a few bits in form of a game horse, and it was not even a special one.

Wurm is "just" a game: at any given time you can loose everything here "just because" the game is shut down, for any reason. One of the reasons is that the game does not get enough money from outside, and in time the deed upkeep was lowered a lot, a move that i never liked, since people tended to already make deeds large enough to cover areas it was annoying to go around since they fenced all, and that wrong behavior is still there: as i said elsewhere i have a couple deeds near to me that are so big they create problems for monster spawning (200x200 is a THING that should cost gold coins per month in upkeep, as it was.). As you can see, me too can find annoying behaviors in other people, that may include deeding clay spots so others cannot dig there (and incidentally they then sell both alchemy for clay tiles and clay dug up...), deeding canals made by others without care and make them unusable, or again the Laghollow issue, where a player putted enough clutter down that i had to go almost always by boat for 4 years because going by feet was a lagfest.

Even keeping others people stuff around makes up for lag in server, especially if your deed is near an highway and you keep hundreds of bsb, fsb  or vase racks outside, that will get decay ticks everytime someone gets along the road: is that behaviour worse or better than someone looting a disbanded server? Is that good because you or a few others decide so?
And honestly, not only these comments try to blame those who do not follow their ideas on that, wich is already bad, but you clearly try to make an urge to the devs to "change the deed system" in order to accomodate the wishes of few, who do not understand that if those mats are not put in good use, if stuff won't decay and ultimately if deeds become dust, we will need probably hundreds of servers to play, we will have deeds large enough to need a server for each of them, we won't be able to hunt mobs because nothing will spawn in the small areas between one deed and the other and so on, in other words you speak from heart but use little mind, and this leads you to make proposals that will hurt the game more than the "issue" you try to fix.

So, while at start i found this discussion interesting because of the relatable contents in some areas, and i answered as to try and make a confrontation of different points of views, now i am of a different opinion, since i see that every point leading to another outcome was answered as "you are the bad ones and should refrain in doing what you do, and we are right and demand stuff", a form of political view i already may have an idea where i saw it again, and so i ask you to stop doing that: blaming others for their gamestyle where it's in-game allowed may be viewed as a toxic behaviour, and THAT can be reported to the devs and moderators.

Eventually i suggest you to prepare a good game guide in wich you explain those things and put in yours and others advices for the players to follow, these will be much more supporting than expecting others do what you like, or even do what is fun for you but not for them.



Edit: let me add a couple things more to the core game mechanics, like i did before with spawning.
It looks like most of you do not exactly know how the decay part work in this game. In the last month of upkeep of your deed, stuff starts to take damage: most basic fences and buildings will be gone before the monthly upkeep goes down, the same for tools, if they're not underground or in a magical chest, they will start to take damage fast and 20-40ql items won't last more than 3-4 months on the ground, a bit more if inside a chest in a house because both make nested items wich slows decay. After deed is gone, every month 10% of all the crated stuff is gone, this is the same for bsb, crates and fsb, so in 10 months you won't have anything in your bsb even if it's locked down.
Decay works "on sight": when a player enters in sight with stuff long gone, that stuff wil check for decay and may apply all the damage it should have taken at once, so more players around, the easier the stuff will decay and vanish, so more frequented areas will go off sooner, while strong, high ql structures put in places where none goes anymore may last forever, and that is bad for server resources.

This is just to say that if you leave for a few months and the deed go puff, you may come back and see the structures still up if they were good ql, but if you do not pay for 1 year worth of deed, if your stuff go poof, and this happens often with large deeds wich players do NOT want to pay for in upkeep, then fair, your stuff is gone, but your toon is not, you can go another place and rebuild.

Edited by Rauros
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There isn't much I can say to folks who don't understant the emotional investment in Wurm. If you don't have one, that is fine. But most of us here do, and I go back to my original point.... Try and find out what happened to the person instead of just standing there waiting for walls to come down. Professional looters often arrive at the scene right when a deed disbands and then they wait, sometimes for a month, for walls to fall so they can get everything. I have done that too. But that time-frame is a great opportunity to find out what happened to the person who lived there. That is what I am asking of all of us. The game itself does not have anything built-in to deal with personal emergencies, and we have lost many players because of it. It is entirely unreasonable to expect that everyone is going to spend hours each week making sure things are secure incase they end up in a coma after they log out. As far as I'm concerned, allowing deeds to be looted in the way Wurm does currently, creates the space for people who Aren't emotionally invested to swoop in and just make money. Yes that is a playstyle, but it isn't an intended one for pve. Again, my point was - we have a bit of time before walls fall. We could use that time to find the person before just running off with everything they had.

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Its unreasonable to ask a player to actually secure their own belongings. lock their own crates bsbs etc???  This is something they should be doing from the start there should be no extra hours of invested time in it, and if there is well do it and let said player make that effort to protect their own stuff.

 

But no people think its everyone's elses responsibility to look out for them cause they cant be bothered are to lazy too much of a snowflake or simply the type that want to be able to blame somebody else for their own mistakes, in the event something happens.  Sad in deed if they end up in that coma but that is real life this is not. 

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I was going to write a scathing screed against professional looters here, but it's probably not worth it. Judging by some of the responses, they would just laugh it off and go on their heartless ways. One thing those of us who actually do care about other people could do is not buy anything from them, thereby drying up their potential customer base for reselling looted items. I for one am taking notes and adding them to my do-not-buy-from-these-(insert applicable pejorative) list.

 

One possible suggestion for slowing down those who have an alt placed in every grid on every map in order to get to a fallen deed almost immediately, is to extend the deed protections of a deed that falls from upkeep by 24 hrs. This will give friends of that person time to contact them and get them online to redeed, or for those friends that have permissions to go and salvage their stuff keeping it out of the hands of the professionals.

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Just to clarify: i am concerned by people emotionally invested in their assets, i often help for free players i've met or for example when i deliver goods to someone i purpose to help them for free while i am here.

 

I'm not a heartless person / player at all and i think it's really easy to say: looters are heartless while us we are emotional players who cares for others. Things are not always black and white aswell as persons IRL or in a game.

 

World and persons are made of shades and to categorize them in 2 rows evils and angels is, from my point of view, mind reducing.

 

I am emotionally invested with my stuff / deeds but if tomorrow i stop playing for any reason, critical or not and come back to see all is looted .... i will be sad but it's the game... same if i forgot a fence gate unlocked or miss to change back a perm and everything is looted i will be angry ...but against myself not against the looter.

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12 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

ec62ee946a6e948ae19f751104450138.png + https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Ritual_of_the_sun = sad looters ;)

 

my off deed wood house that i used for a butchering grind back in 2019 is still there because i put a mag altar in there to sacc stuff lol, even survived me being off server for 6 months as a champ on chaos

 

This is probably the best solution to secure things offdeed.

 

As i said there are already game mechanics covering the planned / unplanned leave no need to add more.

Edited by Syhl

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1 hour ago, Nirav said:

There isn't much I can say to folks who don't understant the emotional investment in Wurm. If you don't have one, that is fine. But most of us here do, and I go back to my original point.... Try and find out what happened to the person instead of just standing there waiting for walls to come down. Professional looters often arrive at the scene right when a deed disbands and then they wait, sometimes for a month, for walls to fall so they can get everything. I have done that too. But that time-frame is a great opportunity to find out what happened to the person who lived there. That is what I am asking of all of us. The game itself does not have anything built-in to deal with personal emergencies, and we have lost many players because of it. It is entirely unreasonable to expect that everyone is going to spend hours each week making sure things are secure incase they end up in a coma after they log out. As far as I'm concerned, allowing deeds to be looted in the way Wurm does currently, creates the space for people who Aren't emotionally invested to swoop in and just make money. Yes that is a playstyle, but it isn't an intended one for pve. Again, my point was - we have a bit of time before walls fall. We could use that time to find the person before just running off with everything they had.

I've seen people on the forums say that they were leaving their country because of war or because they were joining the army.  The replies were people more concerned about the person's virtual wurm items and checking to make sure that the person had friends who could keep their online items safe.

I mean really?  What is this massive investment with virtual items?  So much so, that the real gets blocked out.  If someone falls into a coma, do you really think that the first thing they are going to think after waking up is "I hope my wurm online items are safe"   

Though, I do agree that the camping outside deeds for months until they fall is extreme and is an addiction in itself.   

 

you know one time i had a flag taken from me that i actually really loved the look of.  i felt really angry and upset but when i talked with a real life friend, they asked me why i was this upset for?   it was that i was clinging onto this idea of it belonged to me.  it was a part of me.  like my ego.  the flag being gone was like a part of myself was missing or had been attacked.  like being stabbed. 

 

however my friend helped me let go of that clinging and see that the flag represented something within myself that was missing.  so i had to find and look inside myself to see what was the real issue that was going on for me.  after i did that, i felt much better.

 

so if there is so much investment with the virtual items, why not ask yourself why?   and see what you find deep inside yourself.  you may just discover something you are missing in your own real life.

Edited by BoulderDash
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6 minutes ago, BoulderDash said:

I've seen people on the forums say that they were leaving their country because of war or because they were joining the army.  The replies were people more concerned about the person's virtual wurm items and checking to make sure that the person had friends who could keep their online items safe.

I mean really?  What is this massive investment with virtual items?  So much so, that the real gets blocked out.  If someone falls into a coma, do you really think that the first thing they are going to think after waking up is "I hope my wurm online items are safe"   

Though, I do agree that the camping outside deeds for months until they fall is extreme and is an addiction in itself.   

 

you know one time i had a flag taken from me that i actually really loved the look of.  i felt really angry and upset but when i talked with a real life friend, they asked me why i was this upset for?   it was that i was clinging onto this idea of it belonged to me.  it was a part of me.  like my ego.  the flag being gone was like a part of myself was missing or had been attacked.  like being stabbed. 

 

however my friend helped me let go of that clinging and see that the flag represented something within myself that was missing.  so i had to find and look inside myself to see what was the real issue that was going on for me.  after i did that, i felt much better.

 

so if there is so much investment with the virtual items, why not ask yourself why?   and see what you find deep inside yourself.  you may just discover something you are missing in your own real life.

 

Perfect message doesn't exi.....

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1 hour ago, DaletheGood said:

I was going to write a scathing screed against professional looters here, but it's probably not worth it. Judging by some of the responses, they would just laugh it off and go on their heartless ways.

Honestly, there is no reason to at all, really to keep debating this part. We are all like this. We invest in some things and not others. Most of us have invested a lot here, and have meaningful connections with the people here, pvp and pve. But we might not care or see the importance of an irl football game and not be able to fathom that folks are glued to a tv during that season. These looters are not going to understand that investment any more than we would understand investing in things we don't care about. It is very possible they aren't heartless. They legit might not understand that we can have meaningful connections irl AND here, and that this is about more than just pixels. Which is fine. But I am hoping, if they aren't heartless, they can at least understand that we Are invested and respect that enough to just find out what the heck happened to the person before taking everything. And, I think Wurm should find less ways to reward them for doing so. Not buying from them would be one way, but I don't actually know everyone I buy something from. 

Edited by Nirav

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You aren't a victim if someone loots your defunct deed.

 

They are performing an action that is allowed, and even previously encouraged by the game's original creator and designer. It's mindset of play falls under the realm of exploration and it serves as one of the only two methods for exploration to be profitable in Wurm. Unique locating/trapping being the other, equally contentious method.

 

Taking care of my account, and deed is no different than me making certain that I have a bare minimum of one year's mortgage covered, health insurance and personal injury insurance - that way on the rare chance that I end up in a coma for a year, when I wake up I still have a home to go back to with a family that's been taken care of. Nobody else is going to do it for me. There is no hand-holding in life.

 

Personal responsibility goes a long way. I advocate you take measures to protect yourself in the event of accident or tragedy.

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So, what I am hearing from some folks is "the game used to be pvp, so pvp mindset on pve is fine, deal with it," and "I can be ruthless if I want to, you can't make me be kind." Lol. Maybe take your pvp mindset to pvp? And you are right. I can't make people be kind. I'm not trying to make people be kind. I'm asking people to consider trying it out since they are on a pve server. 
What I am hearing otherwise is
1. We can store some items in wagons or ships. This is a cool idea, but it is not likely that we will take every hota, banner, holiday item, and all the sentimental stuff and toss it into a ship every single day before logging out. On pve, we shouldn't have to think about things like that on the daily. That being said, if we know we are going to be absent - like perhaps we get notice ahead of time like when my Dad went on hospice (fortunately I was able to just pay the deeds forward and not worry about it, but not everyone is that lucky) - we could store those things in a ship ahead of time in case.
2. Talk to friends. Sharing accounts is frowned upon, but giving a trusted friend access to your deed might allow them to save things for you if you vanish suddenly. I spent a week having a few conversations before I went into surgery, conversations my friends probably weren't real excited to have, but I made some significant promises to you all regarding the Museum, and needed to make sure that wasn't looted if I kicked the bucket on the operating table. Not everyone has a large friend base, however, and this isn't always an option.
3. Come up with a way to protect people who pay into the game by having deeds in the first place so that their stuff is safer if they have a life event, and present that to the Devs. Many of the players in Wurm are older and disabled, including myself. Brainstorm some way that will work and not tax the devs too much in implementing it. If, as it was said, this is a topic that surfaces every so often, it is clearly a problem that needs a solution.
4. Be kind. It costs nothing to be kind to each other and help folks rather than harm them. Looting deeds without making sure the player is actually done with the deed is causing harm. It is causing players to leave the game, so it harms Wurm, and it harms the players emotionally. It doesn't take much to just try and reach out to the person before looting. 

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2 hours ago, Viceren said:

You aren't a victim if someone loots your defunct deed.

 

They are performing an action that is allowed, and even previously encouraged by the game's original creator and designer. It's mindset of play falls under the realm of exploration and it serves as one of the only two methods for exploration to be profitable in Wurm. Unique locating/trapping being the other, equally contentious method.

 

Taking care of my account, and deed is no different than me making certain that I have a bare minimum of one year's mortgage covered, health insurance and personal injury insurance - that way on the rare chance that I end up in a coma for a year, when I wake up I still have a home to go back to with a family that's been taken care of. Nobody else is going to do it for me. There is no hand-holding in life.

 

Personal responsibility goes a long way. I advocate you take measures to protect yourself in the event of accident or tragedy.

I support comment this 100%. 

 

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1 hour ago, Nirav said:

So, what I am hearing from some folks is "the game used to be pvp, so pvp mindset on pve is fine, deal with it," and "I can be ruthless if I want to, you can't make me be kind." Lol. Maybe take your pvp mindset to pvp? And you are right. I can't make people be kind. I'm not trying to make people be kind. I'm asking people to consider trying it out since they are on a pve server. 
What I am hearing otherwise is
1. We can store some items in wagons or ships. This is a cool idea, but it is not likely that we will take every hota, banner, holiday item, and all the sentimental stuff and toss it into a ship every single day before logging out. On pve, we shouldn't have to think about things like that on the daily. That being said, if we know we are going to be absent - like perhaps we get notice ahead of time like when my Dad went on hospice (fortunately I was able to just pay the deeds forward and not worry about it, but not everyone is that lucky) - we could store those things in a ship ahead of time in case.
2. Talk to friends. Sharing accounts is frowned upon, but giving a trusted friend access to your deed might allow them to save things for you if you vanish suddenly. I spent a week having a few conversations before I went into surgery, conversations my friends probably weren't real excited to have, but I made some significant promises to you all regarding the Museum, and needed to make sure that wasn't looted if I kicked the bucket on the operating table. Not everyone has a large friend base, however, and this isn't always an option.
3. Come up with a way to protect people who pay into the game by having deeds in the first place so that their stuff is safer if they have a life event, and present that to the Devs. Many of the players in Wurm are older and disabled, including myself. Brainstorm some way that will work and not tax the devs too much in implementing it. If, as it was said, this is a topic that surfaces every so often, it is clearly a problem that needs a solution.
4. Be kind. It costs nothing to be kind to each other and help folks rather than harm them. Looting deeds without making sure the player is actually done with the deed is causing harm. It is causing players to leave the game, so it harms Wurm, and it harms the players emotionally. It doesn't take much to just try and reach out to the person before looting. 

Maybe people should be kind and not build 1 tile houses stopping people from deeding in an area they dont want anyone to deed. Also, how about people don't put a ticket out on someone cutting down trees on an undeeded area and accuse them of being someone else playing on an alt. This happened in my first week on wurm. I knew 2 people in game and asked them what was going on. They were shocked with how I was being treated and asked me not to let that deter me trying the game. Thankfully the GM did not fall for this person's blatant and childish lies. It almost made me quit. Honestly tho, this community has alot bigger problems than someone looting a deed when it drops. 

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Asking people to play the game as only you believe it's okay harms the game, as many people may like to play the game as THEY like to, so you're driving away potential players just because if they do not do what you like, you'll take notes of them and won't trade with them, and possibly will try to make other players do the same.
This behaviour may very well be pointed at griefing other players, or harassing them, a behaviour against the rules of the game. I staand strongly against any form of wokeing actions in forum and in game, especially if this means trying to erase freedom of play in a sandbox game by exploiting messages or communications that are intended for harassing other players.

And, since forum rules prevent harassment like the one i think i've seen here as per rules, i'll report this post and let the moderators do their work, if there's anything to do.

 

Definition: Systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions, including threats and demands.

A ) You may not harass (sexually or otherwise), verbally abuse, threaten, berate, flame, or cause unwanted distress to anyone.

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19 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

ec62ee946a6e948ae19f751104450138.png + https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Ritual_of_the_sun = sad looters ;)

 

my off deed wood house that i used for a butchering grind back in 2019 is still there because i put a mag altar in there to sacc stuff lol, even survived me being off server for 6 months as a champ on chaos


Oblivion, the problem here is that some people needs carebearing to the point that putting locks onto bsb's looks like "a waste of time"...it's interesting, since nowaday i keep seeing people making tons of terraforming, including flattening and leveling whole rock hills, and btw, not understanding that some of their requests damages the game for everyone, speaks alone of what they "want", and why.
Honestly, with the addition of tokens from treasure chests, wich i believe will make a whole new market in terms of trading for them to enlarge and give upkeep to deed with less silver coins, a deed wich will cost 2s a month in upkeep for 5 months will have the same cost as 1 month character premium, AND will not make your raw materials vanish because of bsb decay.

A deed that will be 31x31 tiles will costs a bit less than 2s total, wich looks big enough for any need...my next deed won't be much more large than this, i've in mind something between that and 35x35.

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On 22/02/2023 at 12:06, Timoca said:

Can't they just hold back the twitter/discord announcement for a week or so? that shouldn't mess too much with WurmNode and whoever else needs that data.

It's annoying to find every deed that falls looted within the hour. 

I play on Xanadu and an alliance members deed fell this week and 30 minutes later there was already someone looting the place.

I used to like roaming the area and explore fallen deeds to find cool stuff when I started playing years back but for the last several years the nice finds have been sparse.

TLDR: dont let people know when a deed has fallen, so I am the only one and I can hoard every single bit from the old owner.

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33 minutes ago, ThatYoungLad said:

TLDR: dont let people know when a deed has fallen, so I am the only one and I can hoard every single bit from the old owner.

100% facts

 

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1 hour ago, ThatYoungLad said:

TLDR: dont let people know when a deed has fallen, so I am the only one and I can hoard every single bit from the old owner.

 

There's a rather big difference in going out to explore and finding a fallen deed by chance; and running to loot a place on an out-of-game mass media announcement.

 

If deed falls, I think for the alliance to get notified with "x has left the alliance" message is enough. It shouldn't even be server message. It shouldn't concern other, random players, in random far corners.

 

But I'm also a fan of records and history, so adding a fair delay to those server messages would be middle ground for me.

 

 

 

Had to edit and add a comment to this :)

21 hours ago, Viceren said:

You aren't a victim ...

They are performing an action that is allowed ...

 

And that's all fine.

There is just the plea to discover some more kindness in ourselves, to quote the OP: "take some time to find the player first. It's the kind thing to do."

 

But, I mean... if you really-really had to sell that inscribed vase that Jennifer got from her grandmother, to secure your yearly mortgage... we can understand. 😏

Edited by Shmeric
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I lost a supreme forge I made when the deed I was in disbanded. The guy that had a deed a few tiles away expanded his perimeter over the building it was in to make it decay faster. I was offline for about 2 weeks. When i logged back in and asked him about it,  he said he had sold it. That was in 2016, made me lose interest in the game. I just started playing again last year. Still hurts when I think about it lol 

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Maybe I will start a Storage Unit deed. There seems to be a market for it.

 

Sell 4x4 rooms for storage for a couple silver a year or something. Set it up with individual locks and keys so all you have to keep in your inventory is the key. The only problem would be if something happened to me. Is there any way to setup someone else to take control of the deed in the event I was unable to play any longer?

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58 minutes ago, Gwiz said:

Maybe I will start a Storage Unit deed. There seems to be a market for it.

 

Sell 4x4 rooms for storage for a couple silver a year or something. Set it up with individual locks and keys so all you have to keep in your inventory is the key. The only problem would be if something happened to me. Is there any way to setup someone else to take control of the deed in the event I was unable to play any longer?


Allow friends to be part of your deed and make it a democracy. They can vote you out if you go inactive.

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On 2/23/2023 at 3:04 AM, TheTrickster said:

how you would feel if, say, you had a 24hr window undeeded and logged in to find your work of months-to-years completely plundered and pillaged, with broken buildings almost all that is left.

 

 

personally, I'd be really annoyed with myself for not having secured stuff better.

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