2023 Roadmap

[elentari 2,660]

58 minutes ago, Finnn said:

This works well in other games with respawning close, but not exactly where you died.. at entrance(out or inside dungeon instance), or at closest "checkpoint" to respawn on the map instance you're playing.

99% of games don't have full gear drop on death so people aren't really used to that. Maybe except Rust? But that game is infamous for its toxic community.

 

Also what other game has high level mobs capable of killing you in 15 seconds when you leave starter town? If you're unlucky wurm can spawn a champ spider or champ troll close to a starter town and a newbie is pretty much dead after that.

[Timoca 154]

The fear of losing stuff when you die is a good thing, even on PVE.  It adds to the adventure, the world is dangerous and it should feel dangerous.

I remember making big circles around spiders just to not aggro them, Because if you die you lose stuff and you don't want that.

Now nothing can kill me (only those mobs that spawn when you do your treasure maps ) and it takes away from the gameplay.

 

Losing everything is a bit harsh maybe, so maybe it's better to just loose everything from your inventory that ain't beginner gear and keep your equipped items on you.

Or every item on you has a 10% chance to drop on death, so you lose some but not all.

[Finnn 3,318]

42 minutes ago, Timoca said:

The fear of losing stuff when you die is a good thing, even on PVE.  It adds to the adventure, the world is dangerous and it should feel dangerous.

I remember making big circles around spiders just to not aggro them, Because if you die you lose stuff and you don't want that.

Now nothing can kill me (only those mobs that spawn when you do your treasure maps ) and it takes away from the gameplay.

 

Losing everything is a bit harsh maybe, so maybe it's better to just loose everything from your inventory that ain't beginner gear and keep your equipped items on you.

Or every item on you has a 10% chance to drop on death, so you lose some but not all.

so losing and not realizing you've dropped your rare/supreme/fantastic item is perfectly fine? 

"interesting", pass

 

--edit

My idea is... tailored behavior for better experience for everybody and making the player not feel unconfortable playing or risking anything ever, there should be some convenient place where as a player you get to enjoy playing and trying new things; if alts, abuse, exploits, etc.. can get perks.. limit the abuse somehow, but do not focus on ruining normal human gameplay to limit possible misuse of else better experience; one good example of nerfs was recent faith and binding it to 30 to get global casts.. and there's variety of nerfs doing more harm than improving things, but since it's easy path to limit behavior, shortcut is chosen to get everything in line.

 

Maps and deaths from climbing or hidden mobs or regular mobs forming following trains and catching up to kill the player are possible.. if you cant drop your tent because of a deed, steep slope, tree, road, or try to do it too late.. well you could end up on the other end of the map where you have a tent or village token or starting town.. well now you're naked, with no items, no mount and you have to reach same place which just got you killed and maybe repeat same adventure a few times, spend unpleasant time and also lose a lot of skill in the process, none of that sounds like good time to me.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Finnn

[Timoca 154]

21 minutes ago, Finnn said:

so losing and not realizing you've dropped your rare/supreme/fantastic item is perfectly fine? 

"interesting", pass

 

It would be really easy to log something in your event chat like "you've dropped your rare short sword while being revived in Linton" 

[Syhl 215]

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

While I agree that to be sensible, mind that you always may write a letter to a player (ok somewhat tedious due to limited char count depending on skill, ql, and ink vs. dye). That will cost 1i (affordable to everyone), and will come back within 2 weeks in case the player is gone or was offline all that time.

 

Yes that's what i wanted to say by saying "For offline messaging there is already the ability to do it via ingame mailbox but yes not really used"

 

In general, i'm just trying to find an idea to make trading (offline/online) improved BUT without having a "one click buy/"sell" auction house system, without having to spam every X minutes Trade channel like i do everyday, without high complexity system to dev (even if i don't know the "dev weight" of the improvements ideas i've purposed) and last but not least, to keep the beautiful (from my point of view again) specifity Wurm Online offers about Trading like having to discuss with buyer/seller, traveling to pickup and delivery and sometimes still continue to discuss, player inviting you to visit and show you his deed, while traveling you stop and explore etc ... this is for me essential and even if it would be SOO MUCH easier having a click to buy/sell auction house, we will loose that human interactions and random happening exploring which are, for me again, what makes Wurm different and beautiful.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Syhl

[Ols 306]

2 hours ago, Timoca said:

The fear of losing stuff when you die is a good thing, even on PVE.  It adds to the adventure, the world is dangerous and it should feel dangerous.

I remember making big circles around spiders just to not aggro them, Because if you die you lose stuff and you don't want that.

Now nothing can kill me (only those mobs that spawn when you do your treasure maps ) and it takes away from the gameplay.

 

Losing everything is a bit harsh maybe, so maybe it's better to just loose everything from your inventory that ain't beginner gear and keep your equipped items on you.

Or every item on you has a 10% chance to drop on death, so you lose some but not all.

 

I agree. The issue is not that gear drops per se. The issue is that people aren't told that gear drops, and that they aren't told how best to retrieve their gear. On PvE the entire starter kit should be deathkept, not just select items. People should be encouraged to drop their tent more and perhaps new players should get an option to respawn "near where they died" regardless. 

 

Having nothing drop on death would spoil the game's overall atmosphere of a survival simulator and trivialise the need to stay alive in the wilderness. The requirement to find your corpse again and retrieve the items is an important part of that experience. I don't want to see the fundamentals of what Wurm is unpicked in the name of convenience and accessibility - this is always going to be a somewhat niche game. If people want an especially easy experience then there are WU mods.

  

1 hour ago, Timoca said:

 

It would be really easy to log something in your event chat like "you've dropped your rare short sword while being revived in Linton" 

 

I agree that, by default, event should inform you of all the items left behind on your corpse.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ols

[Batolemaeus 183]

I don't think turning the game into one where all the friction has been sanded off so people can exclusively focus on Number Go Up is particularly advisable. That goes especially for counter intuitive interactions with tool ql and spells that serve no practical purpose except modify how much Up the Number goes.

 

The fact that gaining skill and being productive are diametrically opposed is a flaw, not something that needs to be made easier with "QoL".

 

I get that extrinsic motivation works, but the original Wurm formula, the one about building things in a wide open world, directly led to the success of Minecraft. To see it squandered on meaningless Number Go Up ###### is as foolish as it is heartbreaking.

 

 

As for corpses: Wurm used to be dangerous, and roads needed to be kept secure. When mounts were introduced, danger disappeared. I don't think this was a good decision, and I'd prefer danger to return for everyone, instead of something that only exists for newbies who can't ride a mount yet. I recognise that would be an unpopular decision, but Wurm in general doesn't push back enough.

 

Also, full-drop is not out of the ordinary. Minecraft and Valheim are just two popular examples that use it.

[Tor 528]

Also, it would be a good time to show you have made the right decision all along and double down on the concept that NFI be founded on and create new separate cluster for all the new players we try to retain, now that NFI is relatively old cluster and players on it have their fair share of all kinds of windows of opportunity.

 

Or perhaps can be brave and more clear and make a decision and do something else, instead.

[Ecrir 887]

I quite like what I see in the roadmap, though the spell gems sound horrible to me. As to why? Well, the outcome of using such a gem would be way too random (just as with the cast). You'd be better off just hiring a priest to enchant your item with an enchant of a specific strength than to gamble by buying those gems. I think it would be better to get rid of that gamble aspect for the most part by putting the strength of the cast spell in the gem instead of the channeling level and faith bonus of the caster, just leaving a shatter chance. Then let the gem ql act as the upper limit for the enchant it can contain.

As it's described now it just feels too much like a trap, especially for newer players whom don't know that those gems are one big gamble. There's nothing worse than a new player burning through their hard earned money and getting nothing worthwhile for it in return, that outcome seriously should be avoided unless you want new player retention to potentially take another hit.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ecrir

[gnomegates 1,429]

The road map looks good, thank you for the update!

 

My only concern is the new enchant gem idea. Enchants are such RNG even with high channeling, it can take dozens of attempts to get a 90+ enchant and the odds are still very high that you will get a sub 50 enchant. I cannot see how anyone would want to purchase or trade for an enchant that is a pure gamble. Unless there is a way that the enchant can be guaranteed to be for example a 70+ power enchant with smaller odds of going to the max limit. Its to much like a loot box/gamble and I think it needs some real fleshing out to be of any real use. I know I would not feel right selling someone a gem for a chance to get an enchant, when I can just sell them the enchant itself. I don't like wasting my coin in game and I don't like to waste new players coin either.

 

Happy Wurming!

[Ism 47]

If you activate an item in your inventory the damage colour doesn't display also items in backpacks don't have Any damage indicating colour..
Perhaps worth a moment of your time?

[Finnn 3,318]

4 hours ago, Timoca said:

 

It would be really easy to log something in your event chat like "you've dropped your rare short sword while being revived in Linton" 

You're aware this is mmo.. and nothing protects your item, on death - currently that's body bag for 72 hours was it..

If you just drop an item.. you'll be a wacky lunatic losing it's stuff all around randomly, and when you die - ONLY IF.. you know how it works.. you'd be looking around logs, etc.. if you dropped something..

It's just terrible idea with additional random weird mechanic to track and stress over..

 

I normally do not, but I've forgotten my tent 2-3 times since rifts were implemented.. distractions, being tired, in a hurry, irl events, etc

While tents have permissions and you'd find them where you left them.. better yet, you have "probably" good idea where you left it, you'd be looking at random death location.. to find an item which have no protection at all;

- add protections... oh great.. then we'll look around at random new player dropped and protected items, similar to piles of f2p gear dropped in piles around starting towns..

Edited February 7, 2023 by Finnn

[Timoca 154]

32 minutes ago, Finnn said:

You're aware this is mmo.. and nothing protects your item, on death - currently that's body bag for 72 hours was it..

If you just drop an item.. you'll be a wacky lunatic losing it's stuff all around randomly, and when you die - ONLY IF.. you know how it works.. you'd be looking around logs, etc.. if you dropped something..

It's just terrible idea with additional random weird mechanic to track and stress over..

 

I normally do not, but I've forgotten my tent 2-3 times since rifts were implemented.. distractions, being tired, in a hurry, irl events, etc

While tents have permissions and you'd find them where you left them.. better yet, you have "probably" good idea where you left it, you'd be looking at random death location.. to find an item which have no protection at all;

- add protections... oh great.. when we'll look around at random new player dropped and protected items, similar to piles of f2p gear dropped in piles around starting towns..x

 

You're making this way bigger than it actually is, players dying and dropping their items is not what makes the most of them quit, it's standard in the genre.

I saw some people in this tread complain about it, wanting to get rid of it all together. I find that a really bad idea and I wouldn't even change the current system.

So I came up with a middle ground idea to cater to your and my side.  Both of the ideas have been used in other games so they're not terrible.

[Finnn 3,318]

not arguing about that.. just mentioning I try to not die.. or lose things.. but it happens.. rarely..

[TheTrickster 2,285]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:48 AM, Tor said:

 You kinda got it backwards

Yeah i wanna do all of those actions with the sickle, shovel and pick i have it on the toolbelt, so don't ask me to click it again because obviously i wanna use them and not other tools. When i press a mine button (hotkey, repeat) it means i wanna mine with that pick. Or if i click improve button(hotkey, repeat) over an item that can be improved with a log and i have a log assigned on my toolbelt it means i wanna use that log so don't ask me to select it. Wanna use different tools? Assign them on the toolbelt or change the preset

It would be so much better that way

So basically, the belt would be checked for a tool that could be activated for your chosen action if it is there, uses it?   Makes sense to me.  There would need to be a hierarchy of tools either by toolbelt position or specific to an action (e.g. chop a tree could be done with a hatchet, shovel, sickle, saw - all likely to be on a toolbelt) but that is not insurmountable.

[TheTrickster 2,285]

On 2/7/2023 at 8:03 AM, elentari said:

50 0000% this. This literally makes no sense to punish new players for dying. Maybe once they get to 50 or 70 Fight skill this protection can go away.

 

But at the same time let's ask some game design questions related to this:

 

1. Why is gear drop a thing in pve when it only makes sense in pvp? In pve no one can loot your corpse. So why lose gear?

2. In pvp it makes sense since anyone can loot your corpse, there are no protection permissions for pvp servers.

3. Death = losing skill points is punishing enough, how can a 10 FS newbie recover his corpse if he dies to 2 trolls? He waits 1 real life hour to wait for the trolls to leave? Makes no sense. Zero fun, just frustration, this is one of those "uninstall moments" Josh Strife Hayes talked about in his WO review.

 

And let's freaking face it, with wurm's "intuitive" combat system, who hasn't died as a newbie to a random bear or spider? I had dozens of death as a newbie to pretty much everything in the first month of playing many years ago.

 

Wurm has no "mob levels" you don't start out at lvl 1 and see a "Level 10 skull icon" over the head of a spider that warns you it's way above your paygrade if you want to fight it. In fact some of wurm's mobs are deceptively weird when it comes to power level. A spider while being pretty fast and huge is actually a weak foe. However a small hell hound is 3x as deadlier than a spider despite being the size of a regular dog.

 

So yes, please remove punishing new players for dying. Let them keep their gear if they die.

All this reminds me very much of my Day One in Wurm, when I very nearly quit in frustration - and would have if some kind soul hadn't seen my ostensible parting blast about not wanting to play a game that was all corpse-run and given me significant assistance.  A major thing for me was that while I knew my corpse would have my gear, I DIDN'T know that in PVE my corpse was safe - so I would in a rather panicky and hurried manner rush right back into the danger that had already killed me.

 

All staff should be obliged to watch Hayes' review at least quarterly, and there should be a checklist of things-to-address from that review that is regularly updated with progress.

[TheTrickster 2,285]

15 hours ago, Ols said:

I agree. The issue is not that gear drops per se. The issue is that people aren't told that gear drops, and that they aren't told how best to retrieve their gear. On PvE the entire starter kit should be deathkept, not just select items. People should be encouraged to drop their tent more and perhaps new players should get an option to respawn "near where they died" regardless. 

Maybe have the tent "drop" automatically on death for newbies, with a specific message reminding them to deploy it.   With higher experience the message could be a warning.  Or give them a count down - auto drop for the first 10 deaths or something with the counter displayed AND requiring a manual close after a respawn.

 

Or maybe have it as a respawn option eg.  "Auto-drop tent next to corpse and spawn at tent (4 remaining)"

 

EDIT:  And each time, have it just a little further away from the corpse.

Edited February 8, 2023 by TheTrickster
increasing corpse-runs

[Rocklobster 309]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:32 AM, Darklords said:

Spell Gems

 

Spell gems will be a new item we are introducing later this year to make enchants more accessible to newer players and add some QOL for players selling enchants to players. These gems will allow you to cast an item enchant onto them, recording your channelling level and any faith bonuses you had at the time and locking it into a gem. Another player can then use one of these to cast on an item as if they were you; this will function like a normal enchant with the same chance to shatter an item as the casting priest and will roll the spell power when using the gem not when creating it. We also plan to have versions of these capped at 30 power enchants drop/come from sources in the game to give newer players a chance to get some basic enchants while still leaving the market open for good enchants needing to come from priests. This one may be a little controversial and we would love to hear some feedback on it.

 

This sounds like over complicated answer to a simple request. Why can't you just make paper that transfers the cast instead of all this extra stuff? Fairly simple, i cast 109, i sell it, someone puts on something, done. How many of these spells gems would it take to get 100 cast normally? Wts 50 spell gems for a 1% at 100 cast LOL!

Edited February 8, 2023 by Rocklobster

[Ols 306]

6 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Maybe have the tent "drop" automatically on death for newbies, with a specific message reminding them to deploy it.   With higher experience the message could be a warning.  Or give them a count down - auto drop for the first 10 deaths or something with the counter displayed AND requiring a manual close after a respawn.

 

Or maybe have it as a respawn option eg.  "Auto-drop tent next to corpse and spawn at tent (4 remaining)"

 

EDIT:  And each time, have it just a little further away from the corpse.

 

Yes this sounds reasonable. Tbh you could make it that *anything* they had on them when they died is then found in this autoplaced tent. That way they'd be in the same general region as before but can also choose to retreat with their items.

 

Tbh I think there's a risk of firing from the hip here by trying to come up for a solution to something that isn't really the problem. Why not do an unmoderated user study with a sample of people trying Wurm for the first time, recording their screen and any remarks they make to see what they found the most challenging. I suspect its more complicated that just "I died, wtf???" and more a case of people being frustrated with the very slow progress you make as a new character, not understanding that you're meant to rely on others for help, and not having a clear sense of purpose for their first few days in Wurm.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ols

[Tor 528]

Lift priest restrictions instead of spell gems

[Ols 306]

1 minute ago, Tor said:

Lift priest restrictions instead of spell gems

 

No. Then everyone would become a priest. It's better that getting access to magic involves a trade off. 

[Finnn 3,318]

54 minutes ago, Tor said:

Lift priest restrictions instead of spell gems

sounds more reasonable.. if you are one.. you still need 3x more for most things anyway, this way everybody will be able to do something and there will be more social interaction for random casts;

something which now happens with multiclient alts as batteries, etc;

 

but it's big deal.. game heavily depends on premium player count(many alts).. instead of monthly or seasonal new content to promote spending for new fancy skins/items/collectables

[Tor 528]

48 minutes ago, Finnn said:

sounds more reasonable.. if you are one.. you still need 3x more for most things anyway, this way everybody will be able to do something and there will be more social interaction for random casts;

something which now happens with multiclient alts as batteries, etc;

 

but it's big deal.. game heavily depends on premium player count(many alts).. instead of monthly or seasonal new content to promote spending for new fancy skins/items/collectables

 

There's probably 6-10 alts doing sermons per server at any given moment anyways, idk what's the point in keep promoting this kind of "gameplay". They should lift the restriction, diversify the gods, maybe add one or few more gods instead of more spells in gems to be sold by 24/7 players.

Or if this above is a nonsense, what about weapon imps in a gem then?

[Tukodama 316]

I am a non priest.  Will I be able to use spell gems as a non priest?  Will my success rate be so poor that it won't be worth while for me?  I assume as a non priest I would shatter every supreme/fantastic tool or weapon I have, without shatter protection.

 

I don't usually feel comfortable sending my unique tools or weapons to be imped or cast because there is always the chance it will not be returned.  It would be so much simpler for non priests or less skilled players to have the caster put 100 CoC, WoA or BoTD on a gem and that gem can be bought and applied like an imbued potion, transferring the cast to the desired object.   

 

Other than the extremely slim shatter chance @99 channeling of the direct cast on a item, I don't see how selling a casted gem is any different than sending a hammer to be casted.  The biggest difference I see is that if I can apply the cast myself, I can be assured my hard earned tools and weapons won't be stolen.  

 

As someone that has 0 channeling skill, I am very confused how this will work and benefit casting my own tools.  

   

[Finnn 3,318]

2 hours ago, Tukodama said:

I am a non priest.  Will I be able to use spell gems as a non priest?  Will my success rate be so poor that it won't be worth while for me?  I assume as a non priest I would shatter every supreme/fantastic tool or weapon I have, without shatter protection.

 

I don't usually feel comfortable sending my unique tools or weapons to be imped or cast because there is always the chance it will not be returned.  It would be so much simpler for non priests or less skilled players to have the caster put 100 CoC, WoA or BoTD on a gem and that gem can be bought and applied like an imbued potion, transferring the cast to the desired object.   

 

Other than the extremely slim shatter chance @99 channeling of the direct cast on a item, I don't see how selling a casted gem is any different than sending a hammer to be casted.  The biggest difference I see is that if I can apply the cast myself, I can be assured my hard earned tools and weapons won't be stolen.  

 

As someone that has 0 channeling skill, I am very confused how this will work and benefit casting my own tools.  

   

if somebody scam you and do not return your item/s, report it and get them warned/banned.. it's ToS to not scam/steal, easy fun time, unless you plan to request service, take 2 weeks* off than return as Karen and raise drama for trolls, you might get the slap for that play.

(*if you get your item cod sent to you and you do not pick it up in 2 weeks.. it's returned to the sender and here you're at fault for ditching your items around for other to babysit with no clear outcome)

 

If it's a spell cast action, and not spell transfer.. you're in for some lotto play of your life with even chance to shatter your own tool on your own, even better if you have no clue what's good and bad gem setup with priest stats, even then - you can always shatter an item

 

Unless it's 100% transfer, then it's L O L.. better than no-shatter juice application and shatter rng.. it's just no shatter and 100% enchant sticker to the item.. who knows... how it's to be implemented..

Edited February 8, 2023 by Finnn
1 of many typos