MordosKull

Shydow, Thank You for Everything

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I've made an official post. The only omission is the nature of the incident at hand and the name of our source, which has been left out to protect the people involved.

 

Feel free to DM me if you have other questions or concerns. Spreading half-truths through DMs will not allow the community to move forward.

 

Edited by Keenan
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On 1/19/2023 at 6:35 PM, Keenan said:

I've reached out for more information.

 

I can say with 100% certainty you did not reach far enough.

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I am noticing that posts are being removed. Posts that did not appear to break any rules, just people expressing their opinions about the situation. The "official" post made by Keenan was locked so that people could not discuss this situation. Why the censoring of people and the attempts to keep people from being able to voice their thoughts and feelings about this issue. Moderate the posts as needed if they break the rules, but if they do not break the rules, why lock the thread and remove posts. It simply adds fuel to the fire already and creates the appearance that there is something to hide.

 

As paying customers we should have the ability to air our grievances in a respectful manner without fear of being censored or removed for doing so. This is not facebook or twitter where the user is simply that, a user, here we are paying customers and with that should come the ability to speak out against things that a paying customer may disagree with. 

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12 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

I am noticing that posts are being removed. Posts that did not appear to break any rules, just people expressing their opinions about the situation. The "official" post made by Keenan was locked so that people could not discuss this situation. Why the censoring of people and the attempts to keep people from being able to voice their thoughts and feelings about this issue. Moderate the posts as needed if they break the rules, but if they do not break the rules, why lock the thread and remove posts. It simply adds fuel to the fire already and creates the appearance that there is something to hide.

 

As paying customers we should have the ability to air our grievances in a respectful manner without fear of being censored or removed for doing so. This is not facebook or twitter where the user is simply that, a user, here we are paying customers and with that should come the ability to speak out against things that a paying customer may disagree with. 

 

yep mine got removed. All i said was i was ashamed i called keenan a friend and this whole thing disgusted me plus some nice things about Shydow. Can't imagine what rule i broke by saying i'm ashamed of my own trust in that person but hey ho they just don't want people asking questions and will silence anyone who doesn't follow the approved narrative i'm afraid. 

 

Shydow deserved better.

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Quote

I will say that I feel this was an unfortunate lapse in judgement that broke trust.

....

That is inexcusable and a violation of our trust in the GM team.

...

In the end, removal was the only resolution given the broken trust. Trust not only within the GM team or the volunteer team as a whole but trust within the community.

...

 

 

1 hour ago, gnomegates said:

I am noticing that posts are being removed.

 

1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

yep mine got removed.

 

Nothing undermines trust like a ban on freedom of speech and censorship.

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1 hour ago, gnomegates said:

I am noticing that posts are being removed. Posts that did not appear to break any rules, just people expressing their opinions about the situation. The "official" post made by Keenan was locked so that people could not discuss this situation. Why the censoring of people and the attempts to keep people from being able to voice their thoughts and feelings about this issue. Moderate the posts as needed if they break the rules, but if they do not break the rules, why lock the thread and remove posts. It simply adds fuel to the fire already and creates the appearance that there is something to hide.

 

As paying customers we should have the ability to air our grievances in a respectful manner without fear of being censored or removed for doing so. This is not facebook or twitter where the user is simply that, a user, here we are paying customers and with that should come the ability to speak out against things that a paying customer may disagree with. 

100% agree with this post and what @Nadroj have said. The fact that this official post was locked makes it seem like there are things to be hidden. None of my posts have been removed but only because I am afraid to say what I truly think for I may be censored by a seemingly over controlling moderation team. We deserve SO MUCH better as paying customers then what we are getting for this situation. Even more important, Shydow, Shrimpiie. And Sugarfoxx deserved way more respect then they got in this situation. Truly disappointed in the conduct of the team and how this was handled. I personally have had many issues in the past with some minor volunteering for staff and their shoot first ask questions later mentality but thats not here nor there and was many years and and this isn't the place to air those grievances. But like Gnomegates said, we are paying customers and deserve way more respect then we are getting right now. 

Edited by Zachariah
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I believe the community in this instance requires to see the evidence that was used to make this decision from the "long discussion" to restore the trust in the GM team.

 

This just seems like a vendetta, and there appears to still be staff that are being "shielded" still.

 

 

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I am sorry to hear that some of you do not trust that this decision was made well, but at the end of the day, it's impractical for us to get a detailed explanation on exactly what happened, who was involved, and why.

 

I believe that the information that was done so in a way that it can try to give our friends some respect as they leave, and so to not ruin reputations. I know that all of you can understand that rumors can be just as damaging to reputations as fact, if not more, and I would like to ask each of you to keep that in mind.

 

I would also like to point out, that while you are welcome to have your disagreements with how things are ran, at the end of the day, things in Wurm will be ran by Keenan and the others responsible for making sure Wurm keeps on spinning.

 

And to address some of the questions about posts being hidden, you can always reach out to a forum moderator and ask for information on why posts were hidden.

 

I'll end this off by thanking Shydow for everything he has done for us, I personally learned alot from him, and hope to learn more from him in the future.

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Regarding hidden posts: you are welcome to discuss, respectfully, the situation.  However implying that it came about due to personal vendettas etc is not ok - a careful investigation was carried out by senior staff (per Keenan's posts), and a finding was made.  They spoke to all involved, and made the decision they did, for the good of the game and staff group.  I do get that this is a shocking and unsettling turn of events, but this isn't the place to spin false narratives of wider corruption or other skullduggery.  Per the forum rules, if you have had a post hidden, and you don't know why, reach out to a forum moderator via PM.

 

As always, if you have actual evidence of staff behaving in a manner less than you would expect (i.e. not just random speculation), you should approach their team lead with that.  Alternately, you can take it to Enki as HGM or Keenan as manager.  Per Keenan's post, if you feel you have something key to add or communicate regarding Shydow, Shrimpiie and Sugarfoxx's removal from the staff group, you can also reach out to him directly via PM.

Edited by Pandalet
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Reach out to shydow if you're interested friends. He said in keenans post himself that he is happy to discuss his side. 

Edited by Pandalet
Moderation edit
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6 hours ago, fencejumper said:

 

I believe that the information that was done so in a way that it can try to give our friends some respect as they leave, and so to not ruin reputations.

 

Well considering the responses in the official topic that followed calling for permabans and saying they were corrupt, that went well didn't it?

 

Shydow, Shimpiie, and Sugarfoxx, I know that all your actions were done with integrity and honour. Thank you.

 

There is nothing more for me to bother saying, for without hard evidence (not even discord logs which apparently count) it will simply be met with edit, removal or my forum ban. Suffice to say that barring the odd good egg (for whom I am forever grateful), the majority of remaining staff have neither my trust nor respect.

Edited by Grumpled
sweeping generalisations are never a good thing.
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And how many players and their friends didn't had this same courtesy the past decade after dealing with power tripping GM's and that kind of shenanigans. The kind of "freedom of speech" died long ago while you had your eyes closed.

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I would like to return to the OP if allowed, and interject my sentiments on the matter at hand.  Shydow, Sugarfoxx and Shrimpiie have always and will continue to hold my deepest respect as earned by their support and help for the Wurm community.  Each has done so in their own distinctive manner be it quick and concise knowledge support, kind and pleasant interractions with the player base, or sacrifice of time and resources through countless Impalong hosting.  With or without the titles, this will not change.  Thank you and best wishes in your endeavors.

 

I was raised on the old adage that for each negative action, it takes 10 positive actions to counter it.  These 3 are still well ahead of the game.

Edited by Uisge_Beatha
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really this is bollocks ,There are rules and there is etiquette . and of course common sense. I'm happy with boss decision on this

 

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1 hour ago, Uisge_Beatha said:

I would like to return to the OP if allowed, and interject my sentiments on the matter at hand.  Shydow, Sugarfoxx and Shrimpiie have always and will continue to hold my deepest respect as earned by their support and help for the Wurm community.  Each has done so in their own distinctive manner be it quick and concise knowledge support, kind and pleasant interractions with the player base, or sacrifice of time and resources through countless Impalong hosting.  With or without the titles, this will not change.  Thank you and best wishes in your endeavors.

 

I was raised on the old adage that for each negative action, it takes 10 positive actions to counter it.  These 3 are still well ahead of the game.

 

One could even say that there was never a negative action anyway 

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As I feel I have said everything I need to and as I fear extreme moderation for speaking out (lack of freedom of speech and all that), I will end it with this. Anyone who is concerned or even interested, like @Nadroj said, reach out to Shydow. He has no problem telling his side of the story leaving out no details. Mind this is only his side of the story, but I trust him with my life. 

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10 hours ago, Zachariah said:

As I feel I have said everything I need to and as I fear extreme moderation for speaking out

Just wanna point out that fostering a forum/ discussion culture where people are afraid to speak due to being banned / shut down is precisely one of the reasons mmo's eventually die out. Sometimes due to staff not players.  I understand the idea of wanting to "put this in the past" but then again one of the repeated complaints players have had for this past decade is the lack of transparency when it comes to staff < > player communication. Do you think this situation helps or not? Not sure what point there is to say anything more. People have lost trust in the team one way or another after this one. People fearing moderation just proves the point at this stage. Don't assume no one is talking about this one if they aren't doing it on official forums or discord.

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Every player/staff should be held responsible for their invalid actions and treated accordingly. This is MMO last time i checked and not private server where GM's can do whatever they want for their and their friends favors and benefits.

 

Also it's pretty hilarious to see thise always outspoken forum posters dramatize about freedom of speech and censorship all of sudden while it's been always like this and nothing really changed. I am pretty sure everyone that reads on thise forums now and then know by now how other players been deal with in the past 1000 bans/investiagations and this is pretty much the same. So calm down, you are not special, just a player like everyone else

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4 hours ago, Tor said:

Every player/staff should be held responsible for their invalid actions and treated accordingly. This is MMO last time i checked and not private server where GM's can do whatever they want for their and their friends favors and benefits.

 

Also it's pretty hilarious to see thise always outspoken forum posters dramatize about freedom of speech and censorship all of sudden while it's been always like this and nothing really changed. I am pretty sure everyone that reads on thise forums now and then know by now how other players been deal with in the past 1000 bans/investiagations and this is pretty much the same. So calm down, you are not special, just a player like everyone else

Absolutely - Every person who has a physical body is accountable for the actions they do in that body, same thing should go for any characters you create in any game.

It is also correct that Wurm is not a game where the GM's can just do 'w/e' and get away with it - they are beholden to rules too, and iirc there has been a similar thing happen to a Dev at one point, so even they have have to follow rules. while we may not know precisely what those rules are, one thing i have noticed is that those rules are quite a bit more strict then the ones us players play the game by.


everything is situational, and everything has context - making any kind of judgement before you hear all view points present means you miss information you could use to improve things later.

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What evidence, i doubt if i ever been in conflict of interest by any of this 3 players and get banned or whatever, will ever get any of my evidence out there for review.

And now it should be everyone elses problem all of the sudden, unlike any other previous cases like this that no one of this 3 players seemed to ever care about? I expect the same treatment for all.

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Soon this thread gets locked and swiped under carpet like every scenario like this. Might be one hell of a bump on that carpet.

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Indeed, as this is devolving into random crapposting, I've locked it.

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